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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 25, 2020 15:27:44 GMT -6
I don't know if any of you are following this, but I've been so fascinated to see how directors respond to the recent Warner Bros. plan to release all their 2021 films to HBO Max on the same day as the theater release (in the US). Here's an example article by Denis Villeneuve (director of Arrival, one of my favorite films of the past 5 yrs, and of Dune next year): Dennis Villaneuve is mad about Warner's plan
It's so interesting to me b/c if I were talking to any one of these directors, I would just want to say, "hey man, welcome to the fucking club! This is exactly the kind of stuff that's been going on in the music industry since the beginning of the music industry!" The many differences between the film industry and the music industry is something that's fascinated me for a long time, and it's just wild to see how these guys are reacting now that there's a major disruption in their industry like we started seeing 15 yrs ago in ours. |
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Post by EmRR on Dec 25, 2020 15:47:19 GMT -6
I think it was Bob O who pointed out once, the film industry is organized, the music industry isn't. That's the lag.
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Post by Blackdawg on Dec 25, 2020 17:14:59 GMT -6
Indeed. Welcome to the club film people! Took you long enough
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Post by keymod on Dec 26, 2020 6:35:42 GMT -6
And now that computers are powerful enough to download the large video files easily, I wonder how they will attempt to curtail piracy? At least before this the box office earnings were counted on to pay for the productions before the cat was out of the bag.
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 27, 2020 15:30:03 GMT -6
And now that computers are powerful enough to download the large video files easily, I wonder how they will attempt to curtail piracy? At least before this the box office earnings were counted on to pay for the productions before the cat was out of the bag. Copy protection techniques work fairly well on video. You can't copy protect audio. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 16:22:18 GMT -6
Dennis Villaneuve should make better movies and be glad that modern Hollywood pays him before complaining . Blade Runner 2 looked a lot worse than the original that was almost 40 years old. Dune looks plastic and changed jihad to crusade. Wasn’t the whole point of Dune that the entire universe was NOT DIGITAL?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 16:29:55 GMT -6
And now that computers are powerful enough to download the large video files easily, I wonder how they will attempt to curtail piracy? At least before this the box office earnings were counted on to pay for the productions before the cat was out of the bag. Copy protection techniques work fairly well on video. You can't copy protect audio. Movies have been pirated more than music for decades. Video CDs in the 90s were widely copied and almost every DVD and Blu-ray gets ripped quickly. There are thousands of audio CDs that never get ripped. Nothing super popular but cult music was not nearly as pirated as cult movies are after the tape trading days. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 16:43:43 GMT -6
And now that computers are powerful enough to download the large video files easily, I wonder how they will attempt to curtail piracy? At least before this the box office earnings were counted on to pay for the productions before the cat was out of the bag. US box office earnings haven’t paid for blockbuster’s production and marketing costs in forever. Back when Hollywood made quality, the foreign distribution rights used to to pay for the film before it was even finished. Then blockbusters came aiming for the big weekend grosses and studios gamble at it instead of a bunch of hugely profitable smaller films. The smaller films were funded by video and dvd in the 90s and 2000s and that’s all gone now so the odds of Hollywood making a good movie are much less than 15-40 years ago. For blockbusters, FX budgets spiked for fake looking CGI, marketing costs are double or triple the production costs to sell crap, and most movies are in and out of theaters quickly because they’re not very good. So you get Marvel movies that look like bad video games where the fx cost more than the Keaton Batman’s big Anton Faust sets. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 19:47:24 GMT -6
I've got a lot of friends in the film business (almost all of them in sound). So I see both sides of this. A lot of people in sound--both production and post-production--are really, really hurting right now. I have a couple of actor friends (not big names) and it's the same for them. While I see a certain inevitability in the needle moving more toward streaming, the pandemic hit so hard and so fast that nobody's had a chance to prepare. This is taking a toll that a lot of people won't recover from.
Pandemic aside (it's a little hard to do that), I have some sympathy with the people making the films. A DP works so hard to make a beautiful image that will only be imperfectly-rendered on most televisions. A re-recording mixer makes a gorgeous Atmos mix that few people will ever hear as intended (this is even more important on those small shows than WonderStarWarsTenet or whatever the blockbuster de jour might be). And I do feel for the theater owner who finally shelled out for a nice immersive room that might never re-open. So please, let's not feel like film is getting its just desserts.
Having said that, directors shouldn't get too upset that a lot more content was always going to be targeted at streaming. As far as storytelling and acting, episodic television has had the edge for a few years now. And smaller movies (think "Hell or High Water" or "Ex Machina") can be a whole lot better than yet another superhero w/loud, FX-heavy mess. Way, way back in 2019 (last time I was on any of the lots in LA) Amazon, Apple and Netflix were all building big new facilities. That wasn't for theatrical release.
A nice, big 4K TV and immersive sound system (even something like the Sennheiser soundbar) can be a pretty close approximation of most theaters. You don't have to pay for parking and the popcorn is cheap.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 27, 2020 20:15:35 GMT -6
I don't know if any of you are following this, but I've been so fascinated to see how directors respond to the recent Warner Bros. plan to release all their 2021 films to HBO Max on the same day as the theater release (in the US). Here's an example article by Denis Villeneuve (director of Arrival, one of my favorite films of the past 5 yrs, and of Dune next year): Dennis Villaneuve is mad about Warner's plan
It's so interesting to me b/c if I were talking to any one of these directors, I would just want to say, "hey man, welcome to the fucking club! This is exactly the kind of stuff that's been going on in the music industry since the beginning of the music industry!" The many differences between the film industry and the music industry is something that's fascinated me for a long time, and it's just wild to see how these guys are reacting now that there's a major disruption in their industry like we started seeing 15 yrs ago in ours. Yeah I’ve often said things will only change when the film industry gets hit. |
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Post by ericn on Dec 29, 2020 10:50:41 GMT -6
Yeah it sucks, sucks that WB found a way to generate some revenue from projects in the can! I’ll bet his biggest problem is that his deal is loaded on the backend!
Most film and video guys I know are thankful that streaming exists because it has generated work! Companies like Amazon, Apple and Netflix are paying big bucks for original exclusive content. The biggest complaint I have heard about streaming deals for new content is their really isn’t a secondary market like syndication or home video.
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Post by svart on Dec 29, 2020 15:40:52 GMT -6
Dennis Villaneuve should make better movies and be glad that modern Hollywood pays him before complaining . Blade Runner 2 looked a lot worse than the original that was almost 40 years old. Dune looks plastic and changed jihad to crusade. Wasn’t the whole point of Dune that the entire universe was NOT DIGITAL? LOLWUT? BR2049 looked amazing. Also my favorite cinematographer as well. |
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 29, 2020 15:43:04 GMT -6
Copy protection techniques work fairly well on video. You can't copy protect audio. Movies have been pirated more than music for decades. Video CDs in the 90s were widely copied and almost every DVD and Blu-ray gets ripped quickly. There are thousands of audio CDs that never get ripped. Nothing super popular but cult music was not nearly as pirated as cult movies are after the tape trading days. Most stolen movies are leaked through somebody in the studio system, music rarely is. Stolen movies are still big money - there is no money in music.
At its simplest, all it takes to copy a digital recording is to clip lead to an audio loine out and re-record through an interface into you DW of choice. Video generall has an RGB signal that needs co0pying, plus audio, and everything needs sync. Audio doesn't.
Audio isn't worth copying anyway.
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Post by svart on Dec 29, 2020 15:52:24 GMT -6
And now that computers are powerful enough to download the large video files easily ^^ this right here. This is it. People are lazy. When it became easier to find and download music than go to the store and buy it, that's when it started downhill. Now is the time where it's become easy enough to sit around and browse thousands of marginal movies to watch while you eat dinner. Covid just helped people stay home to realize it. People became so numb and normalized to music selection that none of it really mattered anymore. Background noise playlists where "random shuffle" is the default in 99% of homes.. Now movies are going the same way.. Netflix has introduced the "just play something" button that picks for you.. Because at some point you're too numb to your 200 title watchlist that you flip through and never pick from anyway.. It's not the industry. It's human nature. Bombarded with so much stimulus begging for your attention that you start to ignore it, just like you can actually see your nose but your brain ignores it because it's always there. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 29, 2020 20:52:02 GMT -6
Dennis Villaneuve should make better movies and be glad that modern Hollywood pays him before complaining . Blade Runner 2 looked a lot worse than the original that was almost 40 years old. Dune looks plastic and changed jihad to crusade. Wasn’t the whole point of Dune that the entire universe was NOT DIGITAL? LOLWUT? BR2049 looked amazing. Also my favorite cinematographer as well. BR 549? |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 29, 2020 20:54:46 GMT -6
And now that computers are powerful enough to download the large video files easily ^^ this right here. This is it. People are lazy. When it became easier to find and download music than go to the store and buy it, that's when it started downhill. Now is the time where it's become easy enough to sit around and browse thousands of marginal movies to watch while you eat dinner. Covid just helped people stay home to realize it. People became so numb and normalized to music selection that none of it really mattered anymore. Background noise playlists where "random shuffle" is the default in 99% of homes.. Now movies are going the same way.. Netflix has introduced the "just play something" button that picks for you.. Because at some point you're too numb to your 200 title watchlist that you flip through and never pick from anyway.. It's not the industry. It's human nature. Bombarded with so much stimulus begging for your attention that you start to ignore it, just like you can actually see your nose but your brain ignores it because it's always there. Yep. Paralysis. There was a thread around here somewhere where we talked about this - whether all this selection has been a detriment to the business...I would say yes. It’s catching the rabbit. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 30, 2020 11:00:03 GMT -6
And now that computers are powerful enough to download the large video files easily ^^ this right here. This is it. People are lazy. When it became easier to find and download music than go to the store and buy it, that's when it started downhill. Now is the time where it's become easy enough to sit around and browse thousands of marginal movies to watch while you eat dinner. Covid just helped people stay home to realize it. People became so numb and normalized to music selection that none of it really mattered anymore. Background noise playlists where "random shuffle" is the default in 99% of homes.. Now movies are going the same way.. Netflix has introduced the "just play something" button that picks for you.. Because at some point you're too numb to your 200 title watchlist that you flip through and never pick from anyway.. It's not the industry. It's human nature. Bombarded with so much stimulus begging for your attention that you start to ignore it, just like you can actually see your nose but your brain ignores it because it's always there. Dammit, you’ve got me looking down at my nose now, Chris. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 13, 2021 23:28:43 GMT -6
I’m trying to decide if the internet is a net positive or a net negative. Obviously, positive because it’s opened up communication and knowledge to all corners of the earth...but instant gratification and the ability to rob intellectual property is a Pandora’s box of unintended consequences. The truth is, music just isn’t as valuable as it once was. It’s really seems like it’s cyclical...the Tytler Cycle.
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Post by cyrano on Jan 14, 2021 16:01:56 GMT -6
In the past, thousands were making music and millions were buying it.
Today, millions are making music and hundreds are "buying". Those "hundreds" buying are the streaming services. The masses spend a few bucks every now and then. These few bucks need to be shared between the hundreds of streaming services and the millions of musicians. Add the "The internet is free!" meme to it.
Most people I know don't own vinyl or CD's anymore. Except for a few weirdos who collect the stuff and have a house full of it.
The upside is: many more people make music.
The only problem the big rights holders had, was they couldn't go global as they didn't always own worldwide rights. Well, that and the fact that it's a crooked business. Same song with five different titles, owned by three different companies, fi.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jan 14, 2021 16:30:52 GMT -6
Unregulated anything seems to always be a net negative! You need a way of protecting the investments of individuals aka law enforcement
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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 21, 2021 12:27:40 GMT -6
Saw this on Ars Technica: "The past year and a half has seen numerous new streaming networks launch, including Peacock (NBC Universal), Disney+, and HBO Max, among others. The onslaught has disappointed those who expected a service like Netflix or Hulu to offer virtually all content for a flat $10-per-month fee, but that was never going to be economically viable, especially as production costs for TV series have risen in recent years as viewers have responded to more lavishly produced shows—something the industry refers to as 'prestige TV.'" It just makes me even more frustrated that the music industry fell prey to a ridiculous economic model that is not compensating (most) creators fairly. I mean, Ars Technica saying, "yeah, people's fever-dream that they would be able to watch virtually all content they want to watch for $10/month was just never going to be economically viable." Yeah, exactly! And it's not economically viable in our industry, either! Unless Spotify makes enough from ads to cover all the free subscriptions, it's never going to be economically viable! Arrgghhh. So many thoughts about all this... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2021 14:35:41 GMT -6
Saw this on Ars Technica: "The past year and a half has seen numerous new streaming networks launch, including Peacock (NBC Universal), Disney+, and HBO Max, among others. The onslaught has disappointed those who expected a service like Netflix or Hulu to offer virtually all content for a flat $10-per-month fee, but that was never going to be economically viable, especially as production costs for TV series have risen in recent years as viewers have responded to more lavishly produced shows—something the industry refers to as 'prestige TV.'" It just makes me even more frustrated that the music industry fell prey to a ridiculous economic model that is not compensating (most) creators fairly. I mean, Ars Technica saying, "yeah, people's fever-dream that they would be able to watch virtually all content they want to watch for $10/month was just never going to be economically viable." Yeah, exactly! And it's not economically viable in our industry, either! Unless Spotify makes enough from ads to cover all the free subscriptions, it's never going to be economically viable! Arrgghhh. So many thoughts about all this... Spotify sales aren’t real sales. They’re a false analogy and money isn’t changing hands. Airplay was never sales. Hell sales reported for royalties were not the real sales. There was tons of super promoted stuff that bombed just like blockbuster movies bombed. Some of my clients make more selling cdrs than artists “selling streams” in genres where nobody buys physical stuff anymore do. They can afford a carton of cigs or case of beer or two a month with it while that amount of “Spotify sales” might get you an off brand soda every few years. |
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Post by donr on Jan 22, 2021 16:06:40 GMT -6
I'd agree that self manufactured CD's are the best way for a small artist to make any money. But there is money in streaming for legacy geezers. That's why investors are buying up artist's share of publishing. The hits will be there forever and like those old pumpjacks in an oil field, keep pumping at whatever flow rate.
There's just too much video today to possibly consume. There's likely great stuff out there you'll never know about, just like music. I doubt if piracy will be a big deal in the future. I can't imagine anyone "pirating" music from streaming services. Why bother? Same with video. I got the Criterion Channel one year subscription as a Christmas gift. It's a great getaway from current reality.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 26, 2021 9:25:39 GMT -6
And now that computers are powerful enough to download the large video files easily ^^ this right here. This is it. People are lazy. When it became easier to find and download music than go to the store and buy it, that's when it started downhill. Now is the time where it's become easy enough to sit around and browse thousands of marginal movies to watch while you eat dinner. Covid just helped people stay home to realize it. People became so numb and normalized to music selection that none of it really mattered anymore. Background noise playlists where "random shuffle" is the default in 99% of homes.. Now movies are going the same way.. Netflix has introduced the "just play something" button that picks for you.. Because at some point you're too numb to your 200 title watchlist that you flip through and never pick from anyway.. It's not the industry. It's human nature. Bombarded with so much stimulus begging for your attention that you start to ignore it, just like you can actually see your nose but your brain ignores it because it's always there. This post was so real it gave me shivers. Nice post. |
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Post by svart on Jan 26, 2021 9:37:55 GMT -6
^^ this right here. This is it. People are lazy. When it became easier to find and download music than go to the store and buy it, that's when it started downhill. Now is the time where it's become easy enough to sit around and browse thousands of marginal movies to watch while you eat dinner. Covid just helped people stay home to realize it. People became so numb and normalized to music selection that none of it really mattered anymore. Background noise playlists where "random shuffle" is the default in 99% of homes.. Now movies are going the same way.. Netflix has introduced the "just play something" button that picks for you.. Because at some point you're too numb to your 200 title watchlist that you flip through and never pick from anyway.. It's not the industry. It's human nature. Bombarded with so much stimulus begging for your attention that you start to ignore it, just like you can actually see your nose but your brain ignores it because it's always there. This post was so real it gave me shivers. Nice post. One of the guys at work was listening to streaming songs. Some kind of random playlist. I asked him what the song was that he was listening to and he fumbled around for a few seconds and said "How can I even tell?". He meant that he wasn't even aware of how to see what song was playing. He didn't know where to look on the app or whatever he was using. I'm not sure he realized what app he was even using at the time. That tells us everything we need to know about how music and movies have lost their importance because they have lost our attention due to the sheer number of movies and songs that we have the option of consuming. There's so much to choose from that nothing is important enough to catch our interest anymore. you have the old timers who don't "get" new music and don't consume it and you have a whole generation of kids who have too much to choose from to find any single thing important so you have two generations that won't pay for something they don't value. |
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