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Post by jmoose on Feb 28, 2022 14:42:55 GMT -6
LOL! As someone who has worked in the design and repair world for almost 25 years now, I can tell you without a doubt that the best technicians have dirty-ass benches. The best engineers have cluttered desks too. You haven't been inside many professional studios have you? Its not the design & tech world. Go through an A list room like Electric Lady or Big Blue and there's always a place to immediately put something up & get to work. What are you gonna say when the drummer puts a stick through the snare head & needs to change it in the middle of the session? Sorry bro. You'll have to swap it on the floor? Yeah I've got a bench but its covered in crap because I'm cool? That's essentially what you said and 'ya know, its not funny. Does it seem funny? To me its something a loomer would say. You offer a studio for hire yeah? Its not the right answer.
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Post by Guitar on Feb 28, 2022 14:59:51 GMT -6
Yikes, that's rough. A rough response.
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Post by svart on Feb 28, 2022 15:00:52 GMT -6
LOL! As someone who has worked in the design and repair world for almost 25 years now, I can tell you without a doubt that the best technicians have dirty-ass benches. The best engineers have cluttered desks too. You haven't been inside many professional studios have you? Its not the design & tech world. Go through an A list room like Electric Lady or Big Blue and there's always a place to immediately put something up & get to work. What are you gonna say when the drummer puts a stick through the snare head & needs to change it in the middle of the session? Sorry bro. You'll have to swap it on the floor? Yeah I've got a bench but its covered in crap because I'm cool? That's essentially what you said and 'ya know, its not funny. Does it seem funny? To me its something a loomer would say. You offer a studio for hire yeah? Its not the right answer. I literally change the head while it's on the snare stand... Why untighten it and take it to another room when I can just do it right there and then? I've been in big studios and I've never seen folks take stuff away to change the heads or whatever. The broken gear got removed and replaced (or not) and you moved on. Nobody went behind the curtain to see how the sausage was made. half the time the gear went into a box and shipped to the manufacturer, or it was put in the car to take to the repair place down the street. The big places that had techs on staff were the first ones to go out of business. You don't change the drumheads while they're on the drum stands? As a drummer of 30 years I have literally done nothing else but swap the heads right there, or perhaps taken them off the stands and put them in my lap, swapped, tuned and then put back. I don't think I've ever known anyone to do it any other way either! You'd absolutely hate my workbench then. It's used to work, and it's always messy because I'm always using it. I'm not a part-timer who has plenty of sit-around and clean and wait time. I was making a joke, but it wasn't personal unlike your retort.
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Post by svart on Feb 28, 2022 15:11:36 GMT -6
Yikes, that's rough. A rough response. Yeah I dunno. He made an opinionated (somewhat elitist, IMHO) statement. I made an opinionated statement. Somehow mine warrants a personal dig because he has the *correct* opinion. What's a "loomer" anyway?
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Post by Ward on Feb 28, 2022 15:17:15 GMT -6
Two of the main things I look for when booking a space... not talking personal/at home but "studio for hire" where we're gonna spend a lot of time? I can forgive and adjust to a lotta different things but two big non-starters? Gotta have a tech bench. And gotta have a nice lounge. The more I do this the more that stuff matters vs whatever's in the racks or mic locker. Tech bench? There should be a clear well lit surface available at all times. Eventually somethings gonna break and grind the session to a dead stop. Screws back out of the drummers double kick pedal & we gotta spend 30 minutes putting it back together... bass player with a dead output jack... mic shockmount that fell apart. Even simple shit like changing guitar strings. If you can't produce a clean workbench and pair of cutters? Probably zero chance of producing an actual record. Lounge is clutch. There HAS to be a space for people to spend time other then the control room. Time is an illusion. Studio time doubly so. Nobody wants to spend 8-10 hours a day locked in the control room including myself. But for artists? I understand some want to be part of the process & not miss anything but someone who follows the engineer around like a lost puppy..? I kick people out all the time. You don't need to be here while we cut these edits together... come back in 20 minutes. Usually can tell a lot about the overall vibe & condition of a place just from the lounge. Doesn't have to be super fancy but some basic living items go a long way... couple places to sit... table for food... some sort of entertainment? Video games, wall of movies & reading material can be just as important as fancy pants outboard gear. To put it one way... if I take a studio tour walk into the lounge and see 3 couches with no place to sit? Because they're all covered with crap like snare drums & disassembled guitars? There's a dusty TV and playstation that's not even connected? Dude... I don't even want to see the control room just get me outta there. A lot of the things you point out are the way things SHOULD be . . . sadly, they rarely are. More and more studios are private studios, like mine, and whilst I will make every effort to have everything perfect for every client, it doesn't always work out because I have way too much clutter, and that's how I function. A straight ahead rental space that has everything you want, like a turnkey? Man, how many of those still exist? It would be cool, but seems like the impossible dream. Good post, anyhow.
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Post by jmoose on Feb 28, 2022 16:21:03 GMT -6
You'd absolutely hate my workbench then. It's used to work, and it's always messy because I'm always using it. I'm not a part-timer who has plenty of sit-around and clean and wait time. I was making a joke, but it wasn't personal unlike your retort. Sorry if you took it personally that wasn't the intention... if it was offensive that probably says more about you then me. Its not like I called you a clueless zorch or something. Moving onwards...
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Post by jmoose on Feb 28, 2022 17:00:11 GMT -6
A lot of the things you point out are the way things SHOULD be . . . sadly, they rarely are. More and more studios are private studios, like mine, and whilst I will make every effort to have everything perfect for every client, it doesn't always work out because I have way too much clutter, and that's how I function. A straight ahead rental space that has everything you want, like a turnkey? Man, how many of those still exist? It would be cool, but seems like the impossible dream. Good post, anyhow. My space is also far from perfect. Matter of fact its basically the next big item on the list... at the moment there isn't much I can do about it. Looking for the right situation... in due time. Still. Yes there are more & more private studios and that's sorta the rub. People don't get the experience of working in a really great ideal environment and so they have no basis for comparison. There's no conception of how good it could be. Everyone has a home studio these days. If we're offering a "space for hire" - the turnkey as you say we HAVE to offer a better experience. I get people who are used to the environment & workflow of their own home studio or maybe have cut tracks in someone else's home studio. Home studios are great and there are all kinds of 'em... from a simple 8 input interface & handful of mics to rooms with serious gear. One thing they all have in common are the distractions & limitations of a domestic environment. Think I was just called an elitist? I'll proudly wear that. All fuckin' day! That's the environment I came up through & learned in. To me that's something to strive for. It implies a certain level of standards. Not just the bare minimum coasting in on flumes but crossing the finish line at the front even if the motors puking fire and wheels are coming off. At one point in time & it wasn't that long ago the audio community at large was striving for excellence. Go big or go home. With that as my background I don't see any reason to not offer that level of service to everyone. To not only meet but exceed expectations which yeah... includes a clean workbench. Who'd have thought that a simple thing like a clear desktop & having basic hand tools available would ruffle so many feathers?! Not me! That's for damn sure. Some of the stuff we're talking about here is really covering basic human needs. A clean fridge and spot to rip into a pizza. Has nothing to do with turning knobs but everything to do with making records. Doesn't seem esoteric to me but maybe for some..? I dunno.
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Post by Ward on Mar 1, 2022 7:10:03 GMT -6
I feel you, jmoose . . . Essential humanity items should be par for the course in any creative space/environment/studio. Properly built rooms, great gear, logical layout and studio standards like well-labeled and logical patch fields are the tools. But a clean functioning bathroom, kitchenette, chill space etc are also essential. I dunno about installing game stations though, I've seen a fair bit of that and looks to me like its burgeoning on teenage wasteland.
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Post by drbill on Mar 1, 2022 12:48:19 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure I've been called an elitist before. Or at least been thought that of in that way.
I think it has a lot to do with your initial growing up experiences in the biz. Talent aside - if you grew up working in the great studios of LA or NYC or NVille vs. growing up working in home studios you're going to have differing expectations. That has ABSOLUTELY no bearing on your talent or skill - but your expectations are probably quite different in respect to what you want/expect out of a studio.
The days of the big studio's are all but gone, but catering to human expectations are alive and well - and the studios that do it well - even if they are in a bedroom - are the ones people want to work in.
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Post by svart on Mar 1, 2022 13:44:03 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure I've been called an elitist before. Or at least been thought that of in that way. I think it has a lot to do with your initial growing up experiences in the biz. Talent aside - if you grew up working in the great studios of LA or NYC or NVille vs. growing up working in home studios you're going to have differing expectations. That has ABSOLUTELY no bearing on your talent or skill - but your expectations are probably quite different in respect to what you want/expect out of a studio. The days of the big studio's are all but gone, but catering to human expectations are alive and well - and the studios that do it well - even if they are in a bedroom - are the ones people want to work in. This. I didn't spend a lot of time in big studios, but the time I have been in them they universally lacked in-house techs, etc. Some never had them and outsourced all their repairs... The rest got rid of them early on to reduce the bleeding during the big-studio extinction of the mid 2000's. Expecting to sit around waiting for techs to change drumheads or fix gear on your time is a luxury that most have never had nor will ever have. Expecting that to be the norm to cater to a "it must be this way or you're not a professional studio" attitude is the definition of elitist in my book. A clean bench means someone is probably getting paid more to clean than to work. Not being a nihilist about it, it's just business sense when every minute is on someone's clock and time is money.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Mar 1, 2022 16:43:24 GMT -6
I’ll jump on the side where a tech bench is a necessity. A well lit bench, a scope, oscillator to send tones into the gear, amp and headphones, and a CD player to get program into a piece of gear.
Soldering station, drawer of caps, fuses, resistors, fluke. Might seem pricier, but if you need to bring a tech in to fix stuff it’s nice to have it all on the bench and ready for them to do what they do.
If you have a console, a nice little rolling caddy with a power strip, portable vice, clamp on light and some screwdriver sets are always nice to pull up for them to work in the control room if they have to. Maybe a nice magnifying glass or lens is helpful too. Most techs are pretty old and crotchety so it’s good to start off on the right foot!
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Post by jmoose on Mar 1, 2022 18:10:01 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure I've been called an elitist before. Or at least been thought that of in that way. I think it has a lot to do with your initial growing up experiences in the biz. Talent aside - if you grew up working in the great studios of LA or NYC or NVille vs. growing up working in home studios you're going to have differing expectations. That has ABSOLUTELY no bearing on your talent or skill - but your expectations are probably quite different in respect to what you want/expect out of a studio. The days of the big studio's are all but gone, but catering to human expectations are alive and well - and the studios that do it well - even if they are in a bedroom - are the ones people want to work in. Totally. Rooms for hire... what I focused on have to offer a better experience then what someone has at home. And lets face it some people have exceptionally nice home studios. It's gonna take something special to drag 'em away from that and spend time in another environment. Otherwise what's the point? Having & maintaining the attitude... the mindset of a big room costs nothing. Zero dollars. If anything that's my "vibe" - attitude makes the difference. I'm under no delusions that my spot is equal to the Hit Factory but its treated with the same respect & basic principles of operation. And when my room isn't going to be up to par for a given production? We book somewhere else. What someone does in the privacy of their spare bedroom... 'ya know, that's up to them. All good with me. But IMO once you hang out a shingle and start accepting money for services its a different ballgame. And yeah, when time gets booked its gotta be rad. To me it makes no difference if the studio is $25 an hour or $250. If there's a team of interns running for coffee or just one guy. If the couch came from Habitat for Humanity or is a fancy Italian leather job. The vibe of a spot comes from the people that staff it. We'd all like imagine, possibly that the magic of great records & great studios is in that huge old Neve desk... or that one specific magic LA2A in the rack & they've got an U67 that's amazing. But the magic isn't that. It could be any desk or any microphone. The magic vibe comes from people who facilitate making the records. We're helping someone realize their dreams & artistic thoughts. That's super rad. And on a corner of the interknot dedicated gear... maybe easy to forget. But it costs nothing to remember.
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Post by EmRR on Mar 1, 2022 21:29:44 GMT -6
I'll say I've got to be just about the only studio around this area that has fixed broken things from guitar jacks to efx pedals to tube amps on the spot. My competition is almost universally incapable. It does keep the session cheaper.....
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Post by Omicron9 on Mar 10, 2022 14:47:40 GMT -6
All interesting posts; thanks all.
My original inquiry was not about how a studio is equipped or staffed. Only about the interior design, layout, look and feel; the vibe of the place really.
Regards, -09
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Post by christophert on Apr 22, 2022 3:33:07 GMT -6
As far as being on topic, the BIG thing I have learnt is, trying to attract all clients (via the look and the vibe) is a failure waiting to happen. Don't try and make a facility that will work for every client. A studio will go broke trying to facilitate too many client types. EG a corporate company's studio vibe is the polar opposite to a rock / punk / metal / electro / rock / jazz environment. Pick a few tribes, and give them the best they can get. Forget the other clients - let them go elsewhere. Studio Vibe, and talent behind the steering wheel is probably more important than anything (although GREAT gear is imperative if clients are comparing facilities) My repair bench is sometimes messy, but my recording sessions :- neat mic cabling, session layout labeling and client communication is second to none Priorities.
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Post by sean on Apr 25, 2022 6:25:45 GMT -6
I can pretty much work anywhere, and have. $2500 a day studios, bedrooms, sinkholes 200 feet underground...it doesn't really matter to me and I've made recorded in all those environments. But when I'm booking a studio other than my own its either because I need more space to accommodate a large band (I'm talking above 7 or 8 musicians) or the client wants a nice grand piano. And I usually make my decision based on the studio's staff and always, if I have experience, how well maintained the equipment is. I did a record last year at Ocean Way Studio B in Nashville when they still had the enormous Neve. I needed about 16 inputs, there weren't 16 working/reliable channels on the console. I had to bring in my own preamps because they didn't have that many working external preamps. 50% of the microphones that were on the equipment list were not available, so I had a to bringing a lot of my own microphones. When we got into the session one of the channels of the Burl converters had a failed transistor and I had to spend hours in Izotope fixing the random distortion it caused. They had powered creamer for the coffee. There's very little chance I'll ever book that studio again, or recommend it. The A room is much more maintained but they still took our money for a barely functioning B room.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Apr 25, 2022 16:32:14 GMT -6
I can pretty much work anywhere, and have. $2500 a day studios, bedrooms, sinkholes 200 feet underground...it doesn't really matter to me and I've made recorded in all those environments. But when I'm booking a studio other than my own its either because I need more space to accommodate a large band (I'm talking above 7 or 8 musicians) or the client wants a nice grand piano. And I usually make my decision based on the studio's staff and always, if I have experience, how well maintained the equipment is. I did a record last year at Ocean Way Studio B in Nashville when they still had the enormous Neve. I needed about 16 inputs, there weren't 16 working/reliable channels on the console. I had to bring in my own preamps because they didn't have that many working external preamps. 50% of the microphones that were on the equipment list were not available, so I had a to bringing a lot of my own microphones. When we got into the session one of the channels of the Burl converters had a failed transistor and I had to spend hours in Izotope fixing the random distortion it caused. They had powered creamer for the coffee. There's very little chance I'll ever book that studio again, or recommend it. The A room is much more maintained but they still took our money for a barely functioning B room. That sounds like a nightmare... And also why I started drinking my coffee black about 12 years ago.
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Post by christophert on Apr 26, 2022 4:17:48 GMT -6
I can pretty much work anywhere, and have. $2500 a day studios, bedrooms, sinkholes 200 feet underground...it doesn't really matter to me and I've made recorded in all those environments. But when I'm booking a studio other than my own its either because I need more space to accommodate a large band (I'm talking above 7 or 8 musicians) or the client wants a nice grand piano. And I usually make my decision based on the studio's staff and always, if I have experience, how well maintained the equipment is. I did a record last year at Ocean Way Studio B in Nashville when they still had the enormous Neve. I needed about 16 inputs, there weren't 16 working/reliable channels on the console. I had to bring in my own preamps because they didn't have that many working external preamps. 50% of the microphones that were on the equipment list were not available, so I had a to bringing a lot of my own microphones. When we got into the session one of the channels of the Burl converters had a failed transistor and I had to spend hours in Izotope fixing the random distortion it caused. They had powered creamer for the coffee. There's very little chance I'll ever book that studio again, or recommend it. The A room is much more maintained but they still took our money for a barely functioning B room. Needs new owners / or management / or preferably both. Yes - studios are doing it tough, but if you can't maintain your gear, and look after your clients - get out of the game, and let someone else do it properly. No excuse.
Unforgivable.
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Post by sean on Apr 26, 2022 7:01:28 GMT -6
I can pretty much work anywhere, and have. $2500 a day studios, bedrooms, sinkholes 200 feet underground...it doesn't really matter to me and I've made recorded in all those environments. But when I'm booking a studio other than my own its either because I need more space to accommodate a large band (I'm talking above 7 or 8 musicians) or the client wants a nice grand piano. And I usually make my decision based on the studio's staff and always, if I have experience, how well maintained the equipment is. I did a record last year at Ocean Way Studio B in Nashville when they still had the enormous Neve. I needed about 16 inputs, there weren't 16 working/reliable channels on the console. I had to bring in my own preamps because they didn't have that many working external preamps. 50% of the microphones that were on the equipment list were not available, so I had a to bringing a lot of my own microphones. When we got into the session one of the channels of the Burl converters had a failed transistor and I had to spend hours in Izotope fixing the random distortion it caused. They had powered creamer for the coffee. There's very little chance I'll ever book that studio again, or recommend it. The A room is much more maintained but they still took our money for a barely functioning B room. Needs new owners / or management / or preferably both. Yes - studios are doing it tough, but if you can't maintain your gear, and look after your clients - get out of the game, and let someone else do it properly. No excuse.
Unforgivable.
A surprising number of large studios in Nashville are owned by universities, or large corporations, and getting budgets for repairs approved is nearly impossible or a once a year proposition.
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Post by jmoose on Apr 26, 2022 12:48:24 GMT -6
That sounds like a nightmare... And also why I started drinking my coffee black about 12 years ago. You've kinda spent most of your time at the Barbershop and not fully experienced the "freelancer" trip? I could tell stories like that. Booking a shop with a pedigree that should be awesome and 2 days in wind up thinking holy guacamole... why are we here? Have ended up bailing more then a couple 3 times from really impossible situations. At this point I try & do as much investigation as I can including, if at all possible a full on studio tour before pulling the trigger on an unknown room. There's often too much money at stake to go screwing around in a no win & no recovery scenario.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Apr 26, 2022 12:52:20 GMT -6
That sounds like a nightmare... And also why I started drinking my coffee black about 12 years ago. You've kinda spent most of your time at the Barbershop and not fully experienced the "freelancer" trip? I could tell stories like that. Booking a shop with a pedigree that should be awesome and 2 days in wind up thinking holy guacamole... why are we here? Have ended up bailing more then a couple 3 times from really impossible situations. At this point I try & do as much investigation as I can including, if at all possible a full on studio tour before pulling the trigger on an unknown room. There's often too much money at stake to go screwing around in a no win & no recovery scenario. I haven’t done much to speak of at barbershop in a number of years really. If I book a spot out, I grab a few hours a couple weeks in advance and run tone through everything, set up mics I’m planning to use, meet the assistants and see what kind of shape they are in. Avatar was top notch, haven’t been back since it became school owned, the A room at Kalidescope has a really nice API and great mics and a super helpful assistant that knows his stuff. There are 2 in my immediate area I won’t go back to again because of incompetence or gear that isn’t up to snuff / broke.
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Post by theshea on May 14, 2022 7:14:41 GMT -6
i like dark green (british racing green) and bordeaux for walls. but i am too lazy to re-paint my studio ... hah! furniture should look classy: 60/70‘s dark walnut wood! thats my taste and atmosphere which makes me feel good.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 21, 2022 18:34:25 GMT -6
From my journey man days if the room is for hire, a blank slate that the client can bring their vibe to and are encouraged to bring. The other 2 points I kill for are a bench / storage space and a well isolated lounge. I want the whole band in the building in case inspiration hits, but things just work smoother if they have a place outside the tracking room or booth.
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Post by thehightenor on Jun 12, 2022 10:00:10 GMT -6
This is my vibe : realgearonline.com/thread/5367/drbills-new-control-room-mindseyeI like it a lot.... GEAR! Lots of it. (drbill.mojo on in Instagram for more gear related shots) INSTRUMENTS! NATURAL LIGHT!!!! CONTROLLED and FOCUSED EVENING LIGHTING! A MACHINE ROOM! WIRE CONTROL AND MANAGEMENT. Those things are important to me. It helps define the vibe. It's a work in progress. As mentioned at the end of the thread, there are a lot more racks now. At least 4 more racks along with more density in the existing racks. More wire all around, but it's CONTROLLED, and a sense of lived in comfortableness now..... Old thread I know, but your room does look fantastic! One thing though, I was always under the impression from the experts and from reading about it that given an oblong room the speakers should always fire down the long length of the room not the short length as you have yours?
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Post by drbill on Jun 12, 2022 11:38:29 GMT -6
This is my vibe : realgearonline.com/thread/5367/drbills-new-control-room-mindseyeI like it a lot.... GEAR! Lots of it. (drbill.mojo on in Instagram for more gear related shots) INSTRUMENTS! NATURAL LIGHT!!!! CONTROLLED and FOCUSED EVENING LIGHTING! A MACHINE ROOM! WIRE CONTROL AND MANAGEMENT. Those things are important to me. It helps define the vibe. It's a work in progress. As mentioned at the end of the thread, there are a lot more racks now. At least 4 more racks along with more density in the existing racks. More wire all around, but it's CONTROLLED, and a sense of lived in comfortableness now..... Old thread I know, but your room does look fantastic! One thing though, I was always under the impression from the experts and from reading about it that given an oblong room the speakers should always fire down the long length of the room not the short length as you have yours? Thanks for the kind words!! I'm not an "expert", but Jeff Hedback who designed the room is, and we got it ruler flat based on his design. The room may seem to be "oblong" from the pics as I think that's a "distortion" from the photographer's angles and lens, but it's not really. It is kind of a unique room, and there were some constraints that I made Jeff work under, that other designers said I couldn't do.... Namely keeping the French doors, and the back windows. The room is essentially 13' deep by 16' wide with a 10' ceiling, but the depth also has a little alcove in the back, so....kinda square, but not really, with lots of non-symentrical intrusions into the room which IMO helped. There is a faux "head wall" treatment that hangs on the existing front wall that makes the room appear a little less "deep". The angle of the pics makes things appear a little wider I think. Perhaps the biggest challenge for us were the glass French doors which account for a little non-linearity right around 180Hz on the left side. But so worth it for me. Really, without major reconstruction - the setup is really the only logical way we could have done it. And thankfully it worked out. . Again, thanks. 6 years later, I'm totally loving it - although I wish it was a tad larger. Cheers, bp
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