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Post by Bat Lanyard on Apr 6, 2022 23:02:44 GMT -6
I say go for it. I've been making music in a small room for 10 years. It's crowded and imperfect but it's what I got and it's heaven on earth to me just to have a room. That... is the guts of what it's all about. Go for it. |
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Post by Ward on Apr 7, 2022 7:03:44 GMT -6
Jut a suggestion about once you have the basic room built, maybe do some measurements to you have a baseline for sound characteristics, have you punched those dimensions into a room mode calculator; just in case ? Martin just showed me a video from the head honcho at Sweetwater ,his home room set up and he has a desk that opens and closes to he can pull out his recording gear on a sliding drawer and close it all up so its a regular desk: pretty cool, Am thinking what can you do during load in to create more space and have your gear in there too. No, I need to do that. Thanks for the recommendation. That said, I am reconsidering how I could possibly pull off a room in the attic after sitting with the feedback here. That approach has deeper financial implications and there’s a lot to consider. Would you consider stripping down to the trusses, then lifting the entire roof (in pieces of course) and giving yourself essentially another story? |
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Post by Ned Ward on Apr 7, 2022 8:53:16 GMT -6
If you do go pre-built, work with them to add insulation under the floor before they put it on the slab - otherwise working on a cold bouncy shed floor in N. CA won't be fun.
10x12 is a small work space, but CA real estate is crazy. I have friends with he and she sheds and they make it work in San Jose and other parts up north.
Besides permits, think of the things that will help go from shed to usable space - vapor barrier, insulation, etc.
With the cost, are you and a friend or two handy? framing a shed isn't rocket science, and you'd be able to build it the way you want for less. If you're not handy, disregard.
For the dead room - I could see bass traps that are fabric on one side, and thin 1/4" plywood on the other so you could rotate as needed.
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Post by notneeson on Apr 7, 2022 16:52:52 GMT -6
Regarding Ward’s question, I don’t think they’d let me raise the roof. What you do see with these older homes is people lifting the entire house up another 6 feet or so to add a real basement. We should have down that in the 1990s when we redid the foundation.
And Ned Ward, I hear you on insulating the floor. I’m somewhat handy, but it would be a stretch. I also don’t have much time and can’t really see myself pulling off a custom build, I don’t have the stamina for that and everything else I’ve go going on.
The thing about the attic is the work space has to be centered under the apex of the roof, so you have it sloping down around you making the space feel a bit enclosed. Might work though.
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Post by Ned Ward on Apr 8, 2022 8:19:05 GMT -6
Quick thought - if your garage has space, move things around to simulate the actual space you'll have in your 10x12 shed to see if it can work ergonomically. You may decide that desk against the wall opens things up significantly and is worth the tradeoff acoustically. I've seen people mock this up with painters tape or even cardboard to get the feel of the space.
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Post by notneeson on Apr 8, 2022 11:01:51 GMT -6
Quick thought - if your garage has space, move things around to simulate the actual space you'll have in your 10x12 shed to see if it can work ergonomically. You may decide that desk against the wall opens things up significantly and is worth the tradeoff acoustically. I've seen people mock this up with painters tape or even cardboard to get the feel of the space. My garage is already remodeled into living space for family, but I have been able to mock the space up in my living room. And yes, probably would concede and put the desk against the wall. The good news: 1. I have already found having a personal creative space to be much more productive than going to the (much larger) project studio and trying to turn on my creativity to match gaps in my calendar. So while while 10x12 is small, it actually an upgrade and I already have proof of concept for a small space. 2. I am getting most of the above work done on headphones. And while a great set of monitors in a treated room will be nice, I'm already a bit of an outlier in how I'm mixing at this point. That said, much of my success mixing on headphones owes to more than a decade of mixing in purpose built control rooms etc. That is, I know the pitfalls of headphones and where they fall down compared to the real thing. So, we'll see which way this goes! |
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Post by Omicron9 on Apr 13, 2022 8:28:42 GMT -6
Regarding Ward’s question, I don’t think they’d let me raise the roof. What you do see with these older homes is people lifting the entire house up another 6 feet or so to add a real basement. We should have down that in the 1990s when we redid the foundation. And Ned Ward, I hear you on insulating the floor. I’m somewhat handy, but it would be a stretch. I also don’t have much time and can’t really see myself pulling off a custom build, I don’t have the stamina for that and everything else I’ve go going on.
The thing about the attic is the work space has to be centered under the apex of the roof, so you have it sloping down around you making the space feel a bit enclosed. Might work though. My previous studio was on the 3rd floor of my house, which was really cool. 22x24', sloping ceiling/walls. Like an A shape, really. The peak of the apex was 11'. It had a great feel and sounded wondrous; when I built it out, I sloped the vertical walls to eliminate flutter echo. However..... I practically had to wear a bicycle helmet at all times, as I'm 6'1" and I was constantly whanging my head on the sloped walls. The 22x24' footprint was misleading because in terms of safe walking area (like where I could stand up without ducking), it was probably more like 8x24'. I loved it, it sounded good, looked good; but if you go the attic route, just keep the bicycle helmet factor in mind. -09 |
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Post by notneeson on Apr 13, 2022 11:07:50 GMT -6
Regarding Ward’s question, I don’t think they’d let me raise the roof. What you do see with these older homes is people lifting the entire house up another 6 feet or so to add a real basement. We should have down that in the 1990s when we redid the foundation. And Ned Ward, I hear you on insulating the floor. I’m somewhat handy, but it would be a stretch. I also don’t have much time and can’t really see myself pulling off a custom build, I don’t have the stamina for that and everything else I’ve go going on.
The thing about the attic is the work space has to be centered under the apex of the roof, so you have it sloping down around you making the space feel a bit enclosed. Might work though. My previous studio was on the 3rd floor of my house, which was really cool. 22x24', sloping ceiling/walls. Like an A shape, really. The peak of the apex was 11'. It had a great feel and sounded wondrous; when I built it out, I sloped the vertical walls to eliminate flutter echo. However..... I practically had to wear a bicycle helmet at all times, as I'm 6'1" and I was constantly whanging my head on the sloped walls. The 22x24' footprint was misleading because in terms of safe walking area (like where I could stand up without ducking), it was probably more like 8x24'. I loved it, it sounded good, looked good; but if you go the attic route, just keep the bicycle helmet factor in mind. -09 Yeah, I am similar height. Good note. |
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Post by svart on Apr 18, 2022 11:37:32 GMT -6
I worked for a few years in a space roughly that size. HATED it. I thought I'd get used to it, but I never did. The walls seemed to only feel closer every day. When I got a chance to build my own mix room I made it twice as big as I needed just to feel like I could breathe.
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Post by notneeson on Apr 18, 2022 13:03:04 GMT -6
Huh, well I do need to go up to their sales lot and see the demo unit for kicks. It will be telling to see how it feels to be in the space.
That said, two of the bedrooms in my house are only 11' x 11' and I'd happily take over one of those if I didn't have kids.
I talked to a buddy in the neighborhood who looked at an attic expansion for his house, the bid came back at $300K. That's not happening.
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Post by the other mark williams on Apr 18, 2022 13:44:59 GMT -6
Huh, well I do need to go up to their sales lot and see the demo unit for kicks. It will be telling to see how it feels to be in the space. That said, two of the bedrooms in my house are only 11' x 11' and I'd happily take over one of those if I didn't have kids. I talked to a buddy in the neighborhood who looked at an attic expansion for his house, the bid came back at $300K. That's not happening. Oh man, I'm rooting so hard for you on this project. We've needed to do something similar at our house for a good while now. Always seems like any solution has a significant number of drawbacks. |
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 20, 2022 14:30:14 GMT -6
I put my studio in my loft (attic) we had it done properly and it wasn't cheap but it makes for a great space and the key for me is that fact the floor is built on a steel frame
and therefore acts like a floating floor and means I can make a fair amount of noise up there and I'm not disturbing the family.
Outside spaces have to be properly constructed otherwise there's a risk of damp getting into gear and instruments.
If you can finance doing your attic properly I can highly recommend it.
Your friends $300K for an attic conversion .... wow that must be a huge attic space!
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Post by notneeson on Apr 20, 2022 19:54:40 GMT -6
I put my studio in my loft (attic) we had it done properly and it wasn't cheap but it makes for a great space and the key for me is that fact the floor is built on a steel frame and therefore acts like a floating floor and means I can make a fair amount of noise up there and I'm not disturbing the family. Outside spaces have to be properly constructed otherwise there's a risk of damp getting into gear and instruments. If you can finance doing your attic properly I can highly recommend it. Your friends $300K for an attic conversion .... wow that must be a huge attic space! It’s not a huge attic space, it’s living in the long shadow of Silicon Valley. |
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Post by ericn on Apr 20, 2022 21:36:11 GMT -6
I don’t think you guys understand west coast real estate, lol. Certainly on par with NYC area real estate which I've been keeping tabs on for a few years. Coming off 2019 I had plans to move & buy a building... with things as they are now I'm holding tight. Acoustics aside, like I said main rubs I think are overall cost vs footprint and if the town's historic district would allow this at all. I could tell several amusing stories about working construction jobs in historic districts. They usually don't care what happens inside the house... but outside?! And its always incredibly stupid things. One of my favorites with a kitchen remodel? No dumpsters allowed on property. Hand carry all the trash. Daily. That's one of the reasons you can't find a contractor... all my friends in the trades are booked at least a year out. They can pick & choose jobs... "historic district" is going to scare some away. If I had the option to build out an attic or garage, modify anything in the house including removing load bearing walls I'd go that route. Which leads to the financial part of it... if you have good credit there are games & tricks that can be played with things like a remodel vs putting a small building on the property. In my case, buying a property its not hard to get an extra $50-100k over the mortgage for "improvements" - like we're gonna remodel the kitchen and address some other things... like putting most of that into a studio build out. Oh Hiseric districts what a well meaning pain in the ass (yet the ugly circa 1968 cast concrete 20 story eye sore is where I reside). Yeah all the federal refs are all about the outside. The one in Galveston was fun, technically I could not put new windows on the outside, but if I framed energy efficient new windows inside the old ones they couldn’t do anything! |
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