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Post by hadaja on Oct 27, 2022 4:57:28 GMT -6
On October 8th, the company updated its terms of service agreement to include a clause enabling it to withdraw $2,500 from users’ bank accounts simply for posting anything the company deems as misinformation or offensive. What ? What is going on here? did anyone else hear or see this? or is this false news? gritdaily.com/pr-crisis-paypal/ |
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Post by M57 on Oct 27, 2022 5:27:18 GMT -6
I found this in their AUP. It's applicable to more than just misinformation..
If you are a seller and receive funds for transactions that violate the Acceptable Use Policy, then in addition to being subject to the above actions you will be liable to PayPal for the amount of PayPal’s damages caused by your violation of the Acceptable Use Policy. You acknowledge and agree that $2,500.00 U.S. dollars per violation of the Acceptable Use Policy is presently a reasonable minimum estimate of PayPal’s actual damages - including, but not limited to, internal administrative costs incurred by PayPal to monitor and track violations, damage to PayPal’s brand and reputation, and penalties imposed upon PayPal by its business partners resulting from a user’s violation - considering all currently existing circumstances, including the relationship of the sum to the range of harm to PayPal that reasonably could be anticipated because, due to the nature of the violations of the Acceptable Use Policy, actual damages would be impractical or extremely difficult to calculate. PayPal may deduct such damages directly from any existing balance in any PayPal account you control.
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Post by phdamage on Oct 27, 2022 5:29:04 GMT -6
How are they supposed to determine the PayPal account linked to the offending content?
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Post by 79sg on Oct 27, 2022 5:39:09 GMT -6
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 27, 2022 5:46:29 GMT -6
Thought pp said this was a mistake and it wasn’t going into effect ?
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Post by 79sg on Oct 27, 2022 6:01:30 GMT -6
Only because millions of us rightfully closed our accounts immediately, more importantly and think about this, all companies have compliance departments aka lawyers, do you really believe this was a mistake or oversight? How is that possible? Wait for it……it’s not.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 27, 2022 6:28:22 GMT -6
Perhaps, and corporate comms mistakes are made everyday.
Anyway, not defending pp, just saying thought it never became official?
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Post by 79sg on Oct 27, 2022 6:33:59 GMT -6
Only because of the fallout. As I said in the other thread on this topic, fear not they will try it again when the opportunity presents itself. I can’t be the only one that sees what is and has been transpiring. This is a music forum so I will leave it there. Have a nice day.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 27, 2022 6:46:45 GMT -6
Guess what, PP is not our friend, is only there to make money under the guise of service.  You can imagine its total assets(our money), it holds, likely invests, and pays zero % to us on. I had a big run in with pp a while ago, when after an item I sold , got lost and eventually delivered to the new owner’s not official pp address( which I knew about), pp put the full charge $3500 usd against my account, even after I provided it with proof of delivery and happy buyer. Its user agreement was never written to protect and respect its users: just its corporate interests. No love lost here for PP, its gone the way of evilbay, reverb, all about the money: its money, not us. Have a good day too ! fortune.com/2022/10/10/paypal-users-fine-misinformation-aup-error-confusion/amp/ |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 27, 2022 7:44:45 GMT -6
Moving towards that social justice score.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Oct 27, 2022 7:59:56 GMT -6
Am I the only one crazy enough to have a shadow bank account linked to PayPal that I only put money into when using PayPal? Otherwise funds are immediately transferred out of that account.
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Post by honkeur on Oct 27, 2022 8:14:46 GMT -6
Very odd -- Paypal was founded by Peter Thiel, worth $7 billion, who is currently pumping massive amounts of money into US right-wing political figures and causes. Makes you wonder who gets to define "misinformation"...
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 27, 2022 8:16:51 GMT -6
From the TOS. Bold is mine. So just who gets to determine what “intolerance” is? What if my religious beliefs require a conservative view on certain things? Not saying this is my view, but just take Islam for instance - I would imagine some of the hot button social issues aren’t considered part of its religious tenets. Will they be fined $2500 if they wanted to collect funds for a charity espousing opposing points of view?
“relate to transactions involving (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) cigarettes, (d) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (e) stolen goods including digital and virtual goods, (f) the promotion of hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory or the financial exploitation of a crime, (g) items that are considered obscene, (h) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (i) certain sexually oriented materials or services, (j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (k) certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law.”
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 27, 2022 8:20:50 GMT -6
Very odd -- Paypal was founded by Peter Thiel, worth $7 billion, who is currently pumping massive amounts of money into US right-wing political figures and causes. Makes you wonder who gets to define "misinformation"... Pretty sure Thiel has nothing to do with PP anymore. But I don’t think the right wing is who to fear here. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 27, 2022 8:44:58 GMT -6
Very odd -- Paypal was founded by Peter Thiel, worth $7 billion, who is currently pumping massive amounts of money into US right-wing political figures and causes. Makes you wonder who gets to define "misinformation"... It's pretty problematic, and dangerous, no matter who gets to define "misinformation". |
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Post by 79sg on Oct 27, 2022 8:47:30 GMT -6
Very odd -- Paypal was founded by Peter Thiel, worth $7 billion, who is currently pumping massive amounts of money into US right-wing political figures and causes. Makes you wonder who gets to define "misinformation"... Uh are you truly aware of what Peter Thiel is about and involved in? Take some time and learn about that lovely company of his called Palantir. I could post links but won’t without John’s approval. It’s his site after all. |
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Post by seawell on Oct 27, 2022 9:21:04 GMT -6
Very odd -- Paypal was founded by Peter Thiel, worth $7 billion, who is currently pumping massive amounts of money into US right-wing political figures and causes. Makes you wonder who gets to define "misinformation"... It's pretty problematic, and dangerous, no matter who gets to define "misinformation". Exactly! None of us should want this. Even if it seems to be swayed in your favor now, it will inevitably come for you at some point as well. The question that PayPal hasn’t answered is how in the world does language even remotely close to this get included? I’m glad they backed down from it but the fact that a proposal like this lasted more than 1 second in their company makes me not trust their core values/beliefs. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Oct 27, 2022 11:02:19 GMT -6
From the TOS. Bold is mine. So just who gets to determine what “intolerance” is? What if my religious beliefs require a conservative view on certain things? Not saying this is my view, but just take Islam for instance - I would imagine some of the hot button social issues aren’t considered part of its religious tenets. Will they be fined $2500 if they wanted to collect funds for a charity espousing opposing points of view? “relate to transactions involving (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) cigarettes, (d) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (e) stolen goods including digital and virtual goods, (f) the promotion of hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory or the financial exploitation of a crime, (g) items that are considered obscene, (h) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (i) certain sexually oriented materials or services, (j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (k) certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law.” I was thinking along those lines, but remembered it was Thursday so I knew if I timed it right I would run into a couple of guys from the KC Fed when I went to get my caffeine. I did! Here is the deal PP has become the world’s financial clearing house, especially for those on the small side. So what is happening is they are getting hit with all kinds of legal actions around the world because everyone is excepting donations via PP. It’s costing them $$$$$$ so if your doing something that violates an agreement they have with a government ( yeah this probably includes the woman in Iran if they operate there) or the feds in the US show up because your actions meet the definition of hate ( I guess there is a legal definition) they are going to claw back what these requests are costing them. They know some of their clients are not nice people, they will gladly take their money till it effects their bottom line or it effects an agreement they signed with a government even if nobody else thinks the people are bad if that government says they are bad and they being PP signed an agreement that government gets to decide the action cost them $$$, so they are going to claw back $$$. So if you like using PP don’t piss off your government. |
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Post by tkaitkai on Oct 27, 2022 11:10:20 GMT -6
Am I the only one crazy enough to have a shadow bank account linked to PayPal that I only put money into when using PayPal? Otherwise funds are immediately transferred out of that account.
Yep, I do this, too.
Politics aside, I don't trust PayPal (nor do I trust Venmo or CashApp) one bit — as soon as any payment hits my account, it immediately goes to a linked bank account and then withdrawn to another.
Waaaaay too many mishaps in the past for me to have any sort of faith in these companies. My favorite is when PayPal tries to put a 30-day hold on a payment, or when the Venmo app won't let me instant cash out for literally no reason. Fuck outta here with that nonsense.
If I'm paying any sort of transaction fee, then you should give me my goddamn money without question. Absolutely obnoxious.
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Post by seawell on Oct 27, 2022 11:14:42 GMT -6
From the TOS. Bold is mine. So just who gets to determine what “intolerance” is? What if my religious beliefs require a conservative view on certain things? Not saying this is my view, but just take Islam for instance - I would imagine some of the hot button social issues aren’t considered part of its religious tenets. Will they be fined $2500 if they wanted to collect funds for a charity espousing opposing points of view? “relate to transactions involving (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) cigarettes, (d) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (e) stolen goods including digital and virtual goods, (f) the promotion of hate, violence, racial or other forms of intolerance that is discriminatory or the financial exploitation of a crime, (g) items that are considered obscene, (h) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (i) certain sexually oriented materials or services, (j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (k) certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law.” I was thinking along those lines, but remembered it was Thursday so I knew if I timed it right I would run into a couple of guys from the KC Fed when I went to get my caffeine. I did! Here is the deal PP has become the world’s financial clearing house, especially for those on the small side. So what is happening is they are getting hit with all kinds of legal actions around the world because everyone is excepting donations via PP. It’s costing them $$$$$$ so if your doing something that violates an agreement they have with a government ( yeah this probably includes the woman in Iran if they operate there) or the feds in the US show up because your actions meet the definition of hate ( I guess there is a legal definition) they are going to claw back what these requests are costing them. They know some of their clients are not nice people, they will gladly take their money till it effects their bottom line or it effects an agreement they signed with a government even if nobody else thinks the people are bad if that government says they are bad and they being PP signed an agreement that government gets to decide the action cost them $$$, so they are going to claw back $$$. So if you like using PP don’t piss off your government. Being able to piss off your government was kind of the whole point of the founding of this country in the first place wasn't it? |
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Post by teejay on Oct 27, 2022 11:55:02 GMT -6
Am I the only one crazy enough to have a shadow bank account linked to PayPal that I only put money into when using PayPal? Otherwise funds are immediately transferred out of that account. Actually, I read it just the opposite. "Am I the only one crazy smart enough..." |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 27, 2022 13:25:18 GMT -6
Very odd -- Paypal was founded by Peter Thiel, worth $7 billion, who is currently pumping massive amounts of money into US right-wing political figures and causes. Makes you wonder who gets to define "misinformation"... Here is the problem no matter wher you sit on the political spectrum if you dig deep enough into the supply chain your never going to buy anything again. I mean I know this guy who said he was going totally off the grid, extreme liberal. We are talking left of my democratic socialist, hell left of my anarchist friends ( yeah I hang with some very interesting people and I include most I have meet here) so I asked him where he was going to get his seeds ? If we did DNA tests on any of the cattle would we find some link to genetic modification? Antibiotics? I told him to look up every manufacturer if hardware he might use to build shelter. 2 days later I get a text “ I fucking hate you, you fucked my dream! Lunch next week?” That’s reality . |
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Post by bgrotto on Oct 27, 2022 14:22:08 GMT -6
I'm as liberal as they come and find this PP thing very disturbing. I also find it very telling that the knee jerk reaction on the right is to blame the left, as if corporate interests give a damn about partisanship. It seems to me a hard reflection of the misinformation machine writ large.
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Post by seawell on Oct 27, 2022 14:31:51 GMT -6
I'm as liberal as they come and find this PP thing very disturbing. I also find it very telling that the knee jerk reaction on the right is to blame the left, as if corporate interests give a damn about partisanship. It seems to me a hard reflection of the misinformation machine writ large. I think the right has been conditioned to feel this way by the fact that they have been disproportionately booted off of social media platforms that were owned by left leaning people. I'm glad to see most all of us agree though that the PP policy is a bad idea no matter which side of the aisle you're on. |
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Post by copperx on Oct 27, 2022 14:43:27 GMT -6
Am I the only one crazy enough to have a shadow bank account linked to PayPal that I only put money into when using PayPal? Otherwise funds are immediately transferred out of that account. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think that protects you. Even if you have a linked account with a $0 balance, PayPal can leave you with a -$2,500 balance and you're still liable for it. It's like giving them a check for $2,500. It might depend on the specific bank whether the withdrawal request is approved. |
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