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Post by bluesholyman on Feb 25, 2024 13:42:12 GMT -6
It ads more to the cost of the pre and I have 1U space to put something in. I can probably do a single 1073 style with EQ or get a dual-1073 style, no eq for maybe a bit more.
Whats your take on usefulness of the hardware EQ on a mic pre? I'm going into a Pro Tools carbon and can track with a dsp plugin with no issues. I am just wondering if hardware EQ is worth it given the capability of plugins these days.
Thanks
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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 25, 2024 13:56:28 GMT -6
I battled with the same question when I was going for my 73s. Talked a lot with techs about it and weighed it. It depends how you are going to use it. If you will mix hybrid, the eq is great and a vital part of the sound. I do use quite a lot arturia's 73 eq in the mix at the moment. As I only track with hardware I decided to just get the best pre I could afford in that range. If I would have had more dough at the time I would have opted for the filter version, as that will make a difference on how your compressor works in the tracking chain. But I am all good and really really happy with the pre only versions I have. I don’t even plan to upgrade to a filter version. But I think it’s crucial that you have a long term plan for your chain and workflow to make the best possible decision regarding eq or not.
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Post by niklas1073 on Feb 25, 2024 14:20:32 GMT -6
And… regarding single or dual unit. If that’s going to be one of your go to pre’s and your sound. Get a dual if there is a risk you will be tracking acoustics, overheads, room mics or any live singer song writer stuff and what not. Most of the time my second one stands useless but when it gets used it’s worth it’s weight in gold.
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Post by notneeson on Feb 25, 2024 14:38:35 GMT -6
Definitely prefer a nice outboard preamp and/or compressor over an EQ. You can get a ton of work done with the stock EQ in your DAW.
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Post by robo on Feb 25, 2024 16:19:46 GMT -6
If you’re recording yourself then skip the eq. You can always move the mic a bit for broad strokes changes, and fine tune with software after. If you’re working as an AE for other folks, then eq on the way in is incredibly helpful, and the eq on a 1073 is great as the changes tend to be dramatic, and you can quickly make decisions.
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Post by paulcheeba on Feb 25, 2024 20:27:07 GMT -6
It’s not the sweetest eq. Calrec is much better or Pultec or most other classics. It is useful if you have it though. I’m not even that keen on it as a pre. It’s massively overrated IMO. I’d much rather use Coil or Olympic.
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Post by bluesholyman on Feb 26, 2024 9:10:48 GMT -6
It’s not the sweetest eq. Calrec is much better or Pultec or most other classics. It is useful if you have it though. I’m not even that keen on it as a pre. It’s massively overrated IMO. I’d much rather use Coil or Olympic. Overrated how? I get that all this is subjective and its about getting a sound you are after. A 1073 is known for having a certain characteristic about it that for whatever reason appeals to a wide audience of users. How is the Coil and/or Olympic different in what its doing with the signal? I don't mean from a technical perspective but from one of sonic characteristics Thanks.
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Post by ironinthepath on Feb 26, 2024 9:24:52 GMT -6
For me, often tracking by myself as “musician” and “engineer” the only EQ I routinely use going in with hardware is low-cut (high-pass) to get rid of obvious junk I don’t want. This, to me, is the most valuable frequency control I use: moving mic, improving source tends to be better choice vs. eq going in when you’re mostly recording on your own. Make detailed judgments about EQ later.
I’m a bit more willing to use hardware EQ with DI bass, found 1073 - style EQ useful for this, but not essential.
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Post by kelk on Feb 26, 2024 9:54:43 GMT -6
I had a pair of Olympic modules for 6 months, tried to like them really hard, sold them both. There was always something about the top end that didn't work for me. I'm sure in the right context it rocks. These things are all so personal and subjective. I do love Neve pre's and the Coils are just wonderful on everything. Both always bring out the most in the music to me. I would take a pair of 1073s over one unit with eq.. especially if the pair have a HPF.
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Post by kbsmoove on Feb 26, 2024 10:23:26 GMT -6
A good solution for you might be the vintech 273. 2 preamps, with simplified neve high and low shelving EQs in 1RU. Pretty good sounding boxes and you can dabble with hardware EQ to see if it does something for you that software doesn't.
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Post by ironinthepath on Feb 26, 2024 10:45:43 GMT -6
I love the Vintech stuff, but for me the low-shelf doesn't replace the HPF for clean-up duties...main reason I never bought the 273 or 473 and stuck with 73i, 73, and 81 units. If Vintech had a two channel pre with just the HPF, would be my first recommendation too.
Another pre that I REALLY like is Aurora Audio's GTQ2 which has a single-frequency HPF that I think works well (it also has a limited but useful EQ) --> but the GT500 unit for the 500 series is a preamp with adjustable frequency HPF -- if this pre were to sound as good as the 19 inch units, I would totally recommend checking that out too - but it's probably best described as 1073 adjacent, not really a clone.
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Post by bluesholyman on Feb 26, 2024 10:53:56 GMT -6
For me, often tracking by myself as “musician” and “engineer” the only EQ I routinely use going in with hardware is low-cut (high-pass) to get rid of obvious junk I don’t want. This, to me, is the most valuable frequency control I use: moving mic, improving source tends to be better choice vs. eq going in when you’re mostly recording on your own. Make detailed judgments about EQ later. I’m a bit more willing to use hardware EQ with DI bass, found 1073 - style EQ useful for this, but not essential. This is my scenario and you make some good points. For bass, I can use a Tech21 Q/Strip to shape it how I want, so that will work fine.
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Post by ironinthepath on Feb 26, 2024 11:02:04 GMT -6
Also, I agree with some of the posts above (notneeson, etc.) that external compressor more useful than external EQ, typically --> if you aren't going to compress going in before the converter (pre straight to ADC), even the HPF isn't of extreme importance (although still my preference to have one) - you can apply it easily in your DAW. Main point - probably best to focus on getting the "best" pre you can, the filter (and more-so EQ) are "nice to haves".
And there are compressors output there that provide a HPF in the side chain to stop it from reacting so much to bass frequencies (Chandler Germanium compressor, Buzz Audio SOC, Manley Vari Mu & ELOP, etc.) --> so if you happen to get a compressor with that feature, the HPF on the pre may be of lessor value too.
As time has gone on, I've just tried to use less and less plugins and more hardware - but just my personal preference.
-Chris
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Post by christopher on Feb 26, 2024 11:14:40 GMT -6
I’ve been liking your posts!
This is a tough one. If you are ok with plugins, then I agree “some” preamps and “some” compressors will get an amazing starting point for anything.
That will show the limitations of the mic and room, because either you can get it to sound how you love, or you can’t.
If you can’t, -which happens plenty for me- then you cross your fingers and plan for the plugin EQ’s to take it the rest of the way.
The 1073 EQ sections are *always* used when I’ve been with people who had them. The low shelf has some weighty meat, the high shelf a bit of a soft sheen- different than most IC EQs, and while every plugin maker attempt it and claim they nail it, its still a bit of difference in feeling natural. It sucks because what else can you do? Get 40 channels of hardware to mix on or use the plugins? So plugins are useful no matter what.
tracking phase: if you don’t have a lot of mics.. like myself I have to make my cheaper mics try to compete with greatest of all time. Recording flat gets close, but a tiny bit of EQ can change their character a little. It has a smooth way of doctoring a mic or dealing with a source. And most likely plenty of times where they reached for vintage legendary mics, they also flattered them with EQ
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Post by chessparov on Feb 26, 2024 12:53:54 GMT -6
It’s not the sweetest eq. Calrec is much better or Pultec or most other classics. It is useful if you have it though. I’m not even that keen on it as a pre. It’s massively overrated IMO. I’d much rather use Coil or Olympic. I'm just waiting for the "Special" Olympic to come out. I wish I had typical/local access, to an exceptional Room (let alone Paul's ). Then on "Which Pre?" I could compare better. FWIW I'd be cautious on getting anything Aurora. (I hope Geoff's health is as good as possible BTW) But... There have been some repair/replacement issues. That also hopefully were/are being resolved since. IMHO contacting them would be wise. Great initial question BTW. I've wondered about the EQ thing for years. I may semi-$lum it someday, with a GAP 73jr. But for a little more, the Useful Arts Hornet has already got a good Buzz. Chris
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Post by vintagelove on Feb 26, 2024 13:41:29 GMT -6
Well...
On my real Neve, it's very good. The high end is smmmooootttthhhhh. I also had a $$$$ clone, the top got harsh quick. So.... it depends.
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Post by ironinthepath on Feb 26, 2024 15:43:18 GMT -6
Well... On my real Neve, it's very good. The high end is smmmooootttthhhhh. I also had a $$$$ clone, the top got harsh quick. So.... it depends. Just as a curiosity, what is a "real Neve" in this case? A vintage unit or AMS-Neve or is BAE the closest? Just curious. Thanks. -Chris
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Post by vintagelove on Feb 26, 2024 16:41:50 GMT -6
Well... On my real Neve, it's very good. The high end is smmmooootttthhhhh. I also had a $$$$ clone, the top got harsh quick. So.... it depends. Just as a curiosity, what is a "real Neve" in this case? A vintage unit or AMS-Neve or is BAE the closest? Just curious. Thanks. -Chris Hi, it's an old 1066.
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Post by ironinthepath on Feb 26, 2024 16:49:42 GMT -6
Never heard one directly with my own ears...maybe someday :-)
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Post by doubledog on Feb 26, 2024 17:09:55 GMT -6
I have an AML 5003D (no longer in production), and 3 of the Hairball Copper pres (and these are the most "Neve 1073" of the pres in my rack). None have EQ and I don't miss it. I'd rather move the mics and then EQ later if needed.
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Post by eyebytwomuchgeer on Feb 26, 2024 17:10:59 GMT -6
I spoke with some very esteemed forum members about the “importance” of the EQ section on the 1073. I was interested in assembling some DIY options for mixing/saturation, and I eventually settled on a pair of AML 1084s which I assembled myself. They’re the double-wide preamp/EQ.
For my purposes (pushing the input/output), I don’t think I’d go for the full 1084 again. I can’t tell an enormous difference between pushed w/o flat EQ and then pushed with flat EQ engaged. So, that’s basically just testing the audio difference with and without the EQ engaged. My ears are not so discerning as to pick up on those subtleties. I seem to recall you can see some harmonic changes on a spectrum analyzer, but it wasn’t a huge forest of peaks. Again, even visually, it was a subtle difference. Maybe I just need to run more audio through them to learn.
However, the EQ section is bonkers amazing. It’s just if you’re already driving the unit into submission, even a little if that EQ can start to muck things up if you’re not careful haha.
Had the DIYRE 1073 kit been available (I believe it’s still pending, as of this post), I would have gone with those, just for the looks and regular knob-type options. The similar AML Line 1073 was out of stock. I also prefer having an actual knob for the output gain, as opposed to that little screwdriver knob thing.
Don’t get me wrong though. I really prefer having the EQ options available right there on the hardware. But the AML1084 kit was very time-consuming. It’s a great kit, but it’s a lot to assemble if you’re not really going for an EQ all the time.
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Post by tkaitkai on Feb 26, 2024 18:07:39 GMT -6
I never really clicked with the 1073 EQ. Fantastic mic pre, but I always found the high shelf too drastic for most purposes. However, if I were to use one the way I use EQ now, I might feel different.
I also never understood people gushing about “just engaging the EQ”. Like, it does impart a sound, but it’s nothing crazy, and it’s not even necessarily better, just different. That’s just the way I hear things though, obviously others have their own experiences.
All that said, I do think tracking with EQ in general is useful and also very underrated. I used to be reluctant to use EQ on the way in. Now I think it’s awesome. HPF + cutting a ton of low end/low mids on a vocal pre-compressor is almost like using a multiband comp — keeps the upper mids nice and present but controlled at the same time, and the compression makes the low end feels thick/filled out without actually having much information down there.
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Post by jacobamerritt on Feb 26, 2024 18:31:50 GMT -6
Yes
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Ox Han
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by Ox Han on Feb 27, 2024 20:31:48 GMT -6
I use a few neve clones with eq which have more eq points.
I think the eq adds to the sound even when flat. I mostly record myself and I find the eq useful for general shaping on the way in when I know the sound and vibe I’m going for and if I’ve used a similar tuning/sound on my drums in the past. For example, often for my kick I’m going to low pass at 10-12khz and cut the mids at 220 or 270. Snare gets some hpf and a boost somewhere in the upper mids for snap and wires depending on tuning.
The other eq I do is too surgical or requires more precision. API is also good for general shaping on the way in and plays well with neve style preamps
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Post by smashlord on Feb 27, 2024 21:22:40 GMT -6
I think the EQ is useful and its occasionally my favorite for some things. Need to brighten up a clean Fender amp? The 7.2Khz band on it just sounds amazing in a way that it doesn't on other EQs. The low-shelf is also particularly awesome for fattening snares. Outside of that, I typically prefer something else, but will use the Neve on anything. The 3.2Khz band can be a bit harsh compared to say the 3Khz band on an API and the hi shelf is not like a Pultec, Maag, or even similar shelf on an API, but its still good.
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