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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 2, 2024 14:32:02 GMT -6
Not entirely sure what I think about it yet. Been trying to learn from some of the presets on the UAD version...because I never really use the limiter at all. Anyway - got it on mixbus on one just tickling with comp...I hear it grabbing those transients pretty quickly...and not sure if I like that. If nothing else, you gotta think this would be a good stereo comp for OH or Acoustics at the very least.
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Post by theshea on Aug 11, 2024 0:43:48 GMT -6
here‘s a very good video (in french but with subtitles its understandable) about orig. neve, heritage, behringer and stam audio 33609. so the behringer is rather good and all are close to the new neve. except stam closer to the orig vintage stam. the real differences are mainly the midas vs the carnhill transformers and the potis. end thought from the guy: neve and heritage way overpriced. stam about right and behringer cheap but good. i thought about giving the heritage successor a chance but now i am not so shure about it anymore.
@johnkenn: as you write about the attack time on the comp. thats my main point too. i wish more choice there for mixbus. so thats why i am not buying yet
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 11, 2024 8:57:25 GMT -6
here‘s a very good video (in french but with subtitles its understandable) about orig. neve, heritage, behringer and stam audio 33609. so the behringer is rather good and all are close to the new neve. except stam closer to the orig vintage stam. the real differences are mainly the midas vs the carnhill transformers and the potis. end thought from the guy: neve and heritage way overpriced. stam about right and behringer cheap but good. i thought about giving the heritage successor a chance but now i am not so shure about it anymore. @johnkenn: as you write about the attack time on the comp. thats my main point too. i wish more choice there for mixbus. so thats why i am not buying yet Yeah. Can really only tickle on the 2 bus.
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Post by theshea on Aug 11, 2024 9:34:02 GMT -6
here‘s a very good video (in french but with subtitles its understandable) about orig. neve, heritage, behringer and stam audio 33609. so the behringer is rather good and all are close to the new neve. except stam closer to the orig vintage stam. the real differences are mainly the midas vs the carnhill transformers and the potis. end thought from the guy: neve and heritage way overpriced. stam about right and behringer cheap but good. i thought about giving the heritage successor a chance but now i am not so shure about it anymore. @johnkenn: as you write about the attack time on the comp. thats my main point too. i wish more choice there for mixbus. so thats why i am not buying yet Yeah. Can really only tickle on the 2 bus. but if just tickeling gives a nice glue, weight and tames some transients its enough and all is good. i am stearing towards the stam 33609 right now because of quality and the blend knob. with it one could compress harder and with the blendknob get some transients and original mixtrack back.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Aug 11, 2024 9:48:06 GMT -6
here‘s a very good video (in french but with subtitles its understandable) about orig. neve, heritage, behringer and stam audio 33609. so the behringer is rather good and all are close to the new neve. except stam closer to the orig vintage stam. the real differences are mainly the midas vs the carnhill transformers and the potis. end thought from the guy: neve and heritage way overpriced. stam about right and behringer cheap but good. i thought about giving the heritage successor a chance but now i am not so shure about it anymore. @johnkenn: as you write about the attack time on the comp. thats my main point too. i wish more choice there for mixbus. so thats why i am not buying yet Yeah. Can really only tickle on the 2 bus. At some point someone is going to offer a Transformer upgrade for the Behringer, then the debate will be what modern Ttansformer is best?
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 11, 2024 13:59:56 GMT -6
Yeah. Can really only tickle on the 2 bus. but if just tickeling gives a nice glue, weight and tames some transients its enough and all is good. i am stearing towards the stam 33609 right now because of quality and the blend knob. with it one could compress harder and with the blendknob get some transients and original mixtrack back. I mean - I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the Stam would smoke it. It’s just the ability get said Stam product that’s the rub. If there wasn’t a rub, I’d have the Stam…and hopefully, that’ll happen sometime. Right now it seems like the 369 is working well…it’s one of those things where it just takes a bunch of mixing to know. Is what I’m doing here making things better or worse? And sometimes even that’s subjective. L
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083
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Post by ericn on Aug 11, 2024 14:03:42 GMT -6
but if just tickeling gives a nice glue, weight and tames some transients its enough and all is good. i am stearing towards the stam 33609 right now because of quality and the blend knob. with it one could compress harder and with the blendknob get some transients and original mixtrack back. I mean - I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the Stam would smoke it. It’s just the ability get said Stam product that’s the rub. If there wasn’t a rub, I’d have the Stam…and hopefully, that’ll happen sometime. Right now it seems like the 369 is working well…it’s one of those things where it just takes a bunch of mixing to know. Is what I’m doing here making things better or worse? And sometimes even that’s subjective. L Of course the Behringer could suffer from the same availablilty issues next week or tomorrow, that’s the rub. The main advantage of the Behringer is when available better distribution.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 11, 2024 20:42:09 GMT -6
Math is not my forte…so I’d never really figured out how many microseconds in a millisecond or their relationship. But the slowest attack on an 1176 is still faster than the fastest attack on the 33609…so it should be PLENTY slow enough to use on 2 bus material. Not that that’s some huge revelation since they’ve been using them on the 2 bus since we landed on the moon…
But honestly, the fast attack does feel a little fast on the 2 bus…think it’s 2 milliseconds.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 12, 2024 13:40:48 GMT -6
That may be more about the knee than anything
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Post by Shadowk on Aug 13, 2024 0:01:48 GMT -6
Kind of amazing how quickly I can start to think I deserve lower prices lol. I saw a plug for like $59 the other day and was like, “screw that.” Kinda hope these smaller manufacturers force the giants like UA and Neve, etc to lower prices. Who the hell is going to pay $4500 for a new LA2A? UA and RND were not subtle/gradual with their price increases. Seemed like overnight they just went up like 30%-40% Back in 2011 a pro audio retailer in my vicinity closed down, I asked the sales manager why and they said back then there's no money in pro audio equipment hinting towards the industry in general being nearly dead. Obviously this is relative to the market in my location but what's really sticking the final nails in for me is the current mass inflation vs. resale prices. Whilst people on Reverb or Ebay are trying to sell stuff off for 3X their actual worth on the ground I can't near enough give this stuff away.
Nothing wrong with a bit of vanity project or studio promotional equipment, I mean you can spend a fortune on a car if it tickles your fancy but with heavily enforced speed limits you won't get there any faster even if it has 500HP. Although like cars where you lose 10K or whatever when you drive it off the lot Pro Audio equipment is following that path around these parts. In short it's akin to setting money on fire so yeah, it's a race to the bottom and for me at the moment it's beyond a fancy or any sort of rational logic to even consider any more higher end equipment.
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 13, 2024 3:11:05 GMT -6
UA and RND were not subtle/gradual with their price increases. Seemed like overnight they just went up like 30%-40% Back in 2011 a pro audio retailer in my vicinity closed down, I asked the sales manager why and they said back then there's no money in pro audio equipment hinting towards the industry in general being nearly dead. Obviously this is relative to the market in my location but what's really sticking the final nails in for me is the current mass inflation vs. resale prices. Whilst people on Reverb or Ebay are trying to sell stuff off for 3X their actual worth on the ground I can't near enough give this stuff away.
Nothing wrong with a bit of vanity project or studio promotional equipment, I mean you can spend a fortune on a car if it tickles your fancy but with heavily enforced speed limits you won't get there any faster even if it has 500HP. Although like cars where you lose 10K or whatever when you drive it off the lot Pro Audio equipment is following that path around these parts. In short it's akin to setting money on fire so yeah, it's a race to the bottom and for me at the moment it's beyond a fancy or any sort of rational logic to even consider any more higher end equipment.
There’s no rational to this stuff. I’m 61 in October. I have no sports car, no golf club membership, my wife only likes to travel abroad once a year, my kids are nearly out of uni and starting their own careers. So my studio is my single big indulgence, I can afford a small but reasonable budget each year, and it gets spent on my passion. Would it be better in savings, yeah probably but I’m reminded by my wife (who works for the NHS) life is a journey not a destination and if studio gear makes the journey exciting and enjoyable, within my personal budget, then what the heck …. let’s enjoy the journey. I don’t want to overthink this stuff, just enjoy it for what it is.
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Post by Shadowk on Aug 13, 2024 3:57:02 GMT -6
I’d don’t want to overthink this stuff, just enjoy it for what it is. For sure, do whatever makes you happy and I mean that as a generalisation not a you specifically. It's just I was a lot more comfortable buying pro audio gear when I knew I could sell it at any moment and recoup most of the cost.
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 13, 2024 4:25:52 GMT -6
I’d don’t want to overthink this stuff, just enjoy it for what it is. For sure, do whatever makes you happy and I mean that as a generalisation not a you specifically. It's just I was a lot more comfortable buying pro audio gear when I knew I could sell it at any moment and recoup most of the cost. Well agreed. When I first started buying this stuff, I thought “I can easily get my money back” Now I realise I’d be lucky to get 50p on the pound. I’ve seen a Retro STA Level sat on Reverb for over a year and then I think the guy just took it down. They cost £2950 new and he wanted £2600 for it - not a chance. I bought mine second hand for £1700 and I’d be happy with £1500 if I sold it and even then I realise it could take a year to sell. There’s fewer and fewer people each year who want this esoteric high end kit. So the second hand market shrinks and goes down and conversely, with less sales, the new price goes up. So yes, you’re right about the financial aspect of it.
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Post by andersmv on Aug 13, 2024 5:50:55 GMT -6
UA and RND were not subtle/gradual with their price increases. Seemed like overnight they just went up like 30%-40% Back in 2011 a pro audio retailer in my vicinity closed down, I asked the sales manager why and they said back then there's no money in pro audio equipment hinting towards the industry in general being nearly dead. Obviously this is relative to the market in my location but what's really sticking the final nails in for me is the current mass inflation vs. resale prices. Whilst people on Reverb or Ebay are trying to sell stuff off for 3X their actual worth on the ground I can't near enough give this stuff away.
Nothing wrong with a bit of vanity project or studio promotional equipment, I mean you can spend a fortune on a car if it tickles your fancy but with heavily enforced speed limits you won't get there any faster even if it has 500HP. Although like cars where you lose 10K or whatever when you drive it off the lot Pro Audio equipment is following that path around these parts. In short it's akin to setting money on fire so yeah, it's a race to the bottom and for me at the moment it's beyond a fancy or any sort of rational logic to even consider any more higher end equipment.
Did you see UA racked up the price of the LA-2A to $6k? It really is starting to get ridiculous…
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 13, 2024 6:39:28 GMT -6
There’s a thread here about it? Why bother, rather buy Audioscape or Stam.
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 13, 2024 7:30:08 GMT -6
There’s a thread here about it? Why bother, rather buy Audioscape or Stam. Yep and to my ears the Audioscape Opto Comp gets closer to the original 68 vibe than the UA RI. Which makes the AS Opto Comp a genuine bargain.
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Post by Dan on Aug 13, 2024 8:02:55 GMT -6
Math is not my forte…so I’d never really figured out how many microseconds in a millisecond or their relationship. But the slowest attack on an 1176 is still faster than the fastest attack on the 33609…so it should be PLENTY slow enough to use on 2 bus material. Not that that’s some huge revelation since they’ve been using them on the 2 bus since we landed on the moon… But honestly, the fast attack does feel a little fast on the 2 bus…think it’s 2 milliseconds. Use your ears and mix into it. Find the sweetspot for each setting of auto release where the meters and sound seem to speed up. Large amounts off will be drastically over compressed on all of these old non-vca comps because they’re not logarithmic. 10 db is twice as loud but the non logarithmic vintage type compressor sees 10x the level so put it in the sweet spot and mix into it. The numbers don’t mean anything. They specify a time to do a certain amount of gain reduction at one setting when measured a certain way that varies between all compressors and manufacturers. But often attack and release influence each other and all good compressors have lots of program dependencies. If the two bus compressor is putting a noticeable envelope on drums or taking them off too much, compress them individually less or create an overshoot (with a compressor or transient shaper) that gets smacked down by the bus comp and sounds right but then the drums are modulating the rest of the signal if the two bus compressor is mainly responding to them and not just the brief snare peaks, so you might want more aggressive drum bus compression or to control your kick and snare beforehand
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 13, 2024 10:25:12 GMT -6
Sometimes, I find if it's transients you're trying to shave off, it sounds better on a per instrument basis using Oxford Transmod (or similar)
Then a gooey overall comp to glue the kit together (maybe just the OH)
Lot's of different approaches, depends really on the part and the genre.
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Post by drumsound on Aug 13, 2024 10:43:17 GMT -6
Yeah. Can really only tickle on the 2 bus. but if just tickeling gives a nice glue, weight and tames some transients its enough and all is good. i am stearing towards the stam 33609 right now because of quality and the blend knob. with it one could compress harder and with the blendknob get some transients and original mixtrack back. My RND 5424 has a blend knob as well, and there are times when it has really come in handy, not just on the 2-mix either. It can work amazingly well on vocals. AND the price has gone DOWN on the 5424.
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Post by Shadowk on Aug 13, 2024 11:07:46 GMT -6
but if just tickeling gives a nice glue, weight and tames some transients its enough and all is good. i am stearing towards the stam 33609 right now because of quality and the blend knob. with it one could compress harder and with the blendknob get some transients and original mixtrack back. My RND 5424 has a blend knob as well, and there are times when it has really come in handy, not just on the 2-mix either. It can work amazingly well on vocals. AND the price has gone DOWN on the 5424. Shurely not? RND, cost reduction? Cat’s flying? 🤔
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 13, 2024 12:21:45 GMT -6
but if just tickeling gives a nice glue, weight and tames some transients its enough and all is good. i am stearing towards the stam 33609 right now because of quality and the blend knob. with it one could compress harder and with the blendknob get some transients and original mixtrack back. My RND 5424 has a blend knob as well, and there are times when it has really come in handy, not just on the 2-mix either. It can work amazingly well on vocals. AND the price has gone DOWN on the 5424. Mmmh that's a lovely unit. Still £2900 in the UK ....over twice the price of the Heritage similar unit. I bet your 5424 sounds fabulous.
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Post by drumsound on Aug 13, 2024 16:54:57 GMT -6
My RND 5424 has a blend knob as well, and there are times when it has really come in handy, not just on the 2-mix either. It can work amazingly well on vocals. AND the price has gone DOWN on the 5424. Shurely not? RND, cost reduction? Cat’s flying? 🤔 Seriously, $2,999 at Sweetwater. I paid more for mine and I got a deal. They are now calling it the Shelford Compressor, which they should have done in the first place. My RND 5424 has a blend knob as well, and there are times when it has really come in handy, not just on the 2-mix either. It can work amazingly well on vocals. AND the price has gone DOWN on the 5424. Mmmh that's a lovely unit. Still £2900 in the UK ....over twice the price of the Heritage similar unit. I bet your 5424 sounds fabulous. I'd ask the retailer. Its $3K USD now. It's a wonderful unit. Good for tracking and mix bus. I did a bunch of guitar overdubs with it last week. THICCC
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proxy
Full Member
Posts: 39
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Post by proxy on Sept 20, 2024 11:13:43 GMT -6
Ask any dealer, Behringer has the same delivery issues as Stam, only bigger. This is completely silly. Stam has a wait that is sometimes years, with myriads of excuses. You'd have to be crazy to go through that. Behringer is basically the complete opposite. Yeah, I would never choose the Stam route. Too many other great sounding options from reputable companies.
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Post by theshea on Oct 9, 2024 8:29:50 GMT -6
just received my stam audio sa-609 mk2 but the left channel is like 50db quieter than the right one, bummer … contacted josh and a tech re-contacted me trying to sort it out now. it was a „in stock“ unit and it took about 1 month to get to me in italy. i am so eager to try it on my recent mixes, hopefully they can fix it soon. shouldn‘t happen though if quality control is working as it should be.
@johnkenn: i‘d like to shoot it out with your behringer later when mine is working.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 9, 2024 8:48:14 GMT -6
Good news, you’ve got Italian tech support: enjoy it !
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