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Post by bluesholyman on Aug 8, 2024 9:01:24 GMT -6
My vote would be new monitors. Otherwise, AS 1178 Currently running Focal Shape Twins - hopefully those are useful enough for a while. AudioScape is a name that keeps coming up for me lately. Met someone you may know Johnkenn as he worked for them and worked out an advertising deal at the time with RGO - I only know him as Charlie - works at a GC not far from me now and does his own studio stuff - he turned me onto Audioscape.
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 8, 2024 11:18:38 GMT -6
Yep...wondered what happened to him. You have any room correction?
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Post by geoff738 on Aug 8, 2024 14:02:19 GMT -6
Someone should jump on this. Doesn’t look like GC ship to Canuckistan, unfortunately. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by doubledog on Aug 8, 2024 14:50:25 GMT -6
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Post by doubledog on Aug 8, 2024 15:23:31 GMT -6
I have some basic inexpensive mics, Rode NT1 4th Gen I'll use as the general workhorse - a good vocal mic is on the list, but don't want to get into the weeds on that one just yet. I also have a Cranborne EC2 going into an Avid MBox Studio. I'd definitely recommend a better mic (assuming you are recording things by mic and not just using DI, MIDI, or samples). Right now I think the Chandler TG Type L is one of the best all arounders. It sounds great on so many sources I've tried, including vocals, amps, and stringed instruments. Plus with the A/B setting, it's like having 2 mics in one. Then get some basic room treatment if you don't have it - for tracking. You can purchase (or even make) portable gobos that might help so that your recording surpasses "demo quality". It can even be as simple as hanging a couple moving blankets over some mic stands (configure the boom stand as a "T"). Just something to avoid getting reflections off bedroom walls. or record in a closet. no ambience is sometimes better than bad ambience (and an 8' x 8' x 8' bedroom with no treatment is about the worst). when you start with a good recording it makes everything else easier. And I'm not saying you've got this, but.... I've had to (tried to) polish a turd before and you can never get it as good as when you have a good recording from the beginning (meaning a good performance, and a good tone/sound). If you start with crap, it just becomes shiny crap. I used to have a small bedroom studio and even with treatment it was never as good as my current place (which is bigger, and treated better). So again, not saying that you or anyone is recording crap here - just saying that it's a ton easier to get a good mix when it's recorded well. I think a better mic might help you more than outboard (and maybe you can still get outboard - that mic is under $800). And if you don't/can't treat the room, then get a SM7B. Even cheaper and they are good for vocals and "ignoring" the room sound as much as possible.
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moeses
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by moeses on Aug 8, 2024 17:03:35 GMT -6
Ditto on the chandler type l actually
I enjoy recording with it as any mic I've used at any price
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Post by russellcreekps on Aug 8, 2024 19:44:26 GMT -6
I am starting a hunt now, with the intent to begin a transition from completely ITB to a hybrid scenario beginning next year. Wanted to get thoughts on what would be the first piece of [analog] outboard gear you would choose. Generally speaking, I would think some sort of stereo compressor or leveling amplifier, but then again, just not sure. I assume there are some "foundation" pieces that just make things more better good and again, I would think this is what I would want, but I could be wrong. Don't worry about price/connectivity as all that can be figured out. Appreciate the suggestions, thoughts, etc. If you already have some great pre’s, the Audioscape D-Comp. Run it stereo or in series, super fast if needed, saturate if that’s all you need (really makes stereo tracks sound wider), and great on the mixbus. Really versatile piece of gear for tracking or mixing…and won’t break the bank for your first piece. If that’s not of interest, would definitely take a hard look at Audioscape’s other stuff as well as Locomotive Audio. I’ve heard Stam also does some great work, haven’t tried them myself just yet.
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Post by bluesholyman on Aug 8, 2024 20:22:49 GMT -6
Someone should jump on this. Doesn’t look like GC ship to Canuckistan, unfortunately. Cheers, Geoff My co-writer lives in Waterloo, eh....
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 9, 2024 1:21:47 GMT -6
What do you mostly track or mix? Any references what you’d like to achieve and what framework sonically are you aiming for. Silver bullet might be the thing for you. It might also be that you aim for something totally different. It’s good to look as far ahead as possible not to have to replace gear if possible, but rather build on the preferred sound. This is laregly for my songwriting setup to get things demo worthy. But I do want to plan long term and not get things I"ll only replace later. Most of the tracking will be outsourced as I don't have a good room for that. I can get away with some scratch vocals, good enough for a demo perhaps. Also probably acoustic, mando, electric, etc. - not drums / keys - those are plugins or outsourced. Again, demo level only. I will be mostly focused on mixing the sources with this setup, for the foreseeable future. First question. What are you using for tracking? You’ve got to capture the magic sauce at the source (see my clever play on words there :-) I’d 100% get a tracking set up sorted first. You can use plug-ins to mix and develop a sense of which tools you favour, perhaps VCA or Vari- Mu compression on the mix bus. Once you’ve zoned in on the type of tools you favour, you can begin the dropping using plug-ins and move to the real deal hardware for the critical areas of your mix like the stereo bus, bass, vocals, leads, then use software for everything else. I’ve just transitioned back to hybrid after a couple of albums ITB and now I’m going to have to remix those two albums as my hybrid rig blows away my ITB rig !! I have some basic inexpensive mics, Rode NT1 4th Gen I'll use as the general workhorse - a good vocal mic is on the list, but don't want to get into the weeds on that one just yet. I also have a Cranborne EC2 going into an Avid MBox Studio. As mentioned above, my focus will mostly be on mixing demos of song I write (with others.) Unless you’re wealthy with money to burn, then I’d work on a results basis and go in order and natural priority. The less glamorous things come first - you simply cannot escape the laws of physics. 1. Room treatment / correction. (I went traditional on this and my room is physically treated as opposed to software corrected - both individually or together work) 2. Monitors (the very best you can afford) 3. Monitors ….. needs another mention 4. Monitors …. hopefully point made Now you can actually hear accurately which ever tools (software/hardware) you’re using. Remember your monitoring will determine how you operate and apply your mix tools - that’s incredibly fundamental. Now you can start producing music from a defined baseline of reliable soundscape. Plug-ins are today, very very good (Dan will repeatedly tell you this anyway :-)) So mix with a great selection of great plug-ins and hear your results - many top mixers work this way with amazing success. Now you can make a change. an addition. If you’re tracking - a great mic/ preamp/ compressor and see how the addition effects the quality of your productions. If it’s a mix focus you’re going for, I’d add a fantastic hardware stereo compressor to your mix bus- the topology of which (VCA, vari-mu, diode bridge) can be determined by the genre you’re mainly producing in. It’s very easy to be indulgent with gear and have that FOMO syndrome get a grip of you - it will drain your wallet quicker than you can say “if only I had a ….” I’d stay results focused and that way you’ll be very efficient spending money …. instead of pouring it into an endlessly deep hole, even if owning gear is huge a pleasure in itself Good luck
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Post by niklas1073 on Aug 9, 2024 3:03:37 GMT -6
Thehightenor is right. But regarding the listening there is sorta another way too. I agree fully with his argument. Room and monitoring. Period. The room you cannot avoid if you are going to track there, then again it is not the same as a perfect mixing room. The treatment and monitoring is expensive and it might be limited due to real-estate issues or what not.
I became a much more pleasant and happy person after I went hard on into head phone mixing. I do have a decent room and decent monitoring, but I still do rely heavily on hp monitoring, without any correcting software. It’s a learning curve. If your choices are a mediocre monitoring and room vs hp mixing. I would put my money on hp. If you have the real-estate and dough. Thats another thing.
I don’t do 100% of the mix from start to finish in the hp. But a great deal. Working the low end I still flip between them and at the end stage I also flip quite some between them. But I seldom do definitive choices based on monitoring alone, I don’t trust mine enough. HP reveal a lot of details and issues to me. Usually I find though that when it’s right, both HP and my monitoring will sound great, but I have a harder time getting there with the monitoring vs HP.
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Post by bluesholyman on Aug 9, 2024 5:55:22 GMT -6
This is laregly for my songwriting setup to get things demo worthy. But I do want to plan long term and not get things I"ll only replace later. Most of the tracking will be outsourced as I don't have a good room for that. I can get away with some scratch vocals, good enough for a demo perhaps. Also probably acoustic, mando, electric, etc. - not drums / keys - those are plugins or outsourced. Again, demo level only. I will be mostly focused on mixing the sources with this setup, for the foreseeable future. I have some basic inexpensive mics, Rode NT1 4th Gen I'll use as the general workhorse - a good vocal mic is on the list, but don't want to get into the weeds on that one just yet. I also have a Cranborne EC2 going into an Avid MBox Studio. As mentioned above, my focus will mostly be on mixing demos of song I write (with others.) Unless you’re wealthy with money to burn, then I’d work on a results basis and go in order and natural priority. The less glamorous things come first - you simply cannot escape the laws of physics. 1. Room treatment / correction. (I went traditional on this and my room is physically treated as opposed to software corrected - both individually or together work) 2. Monitors (the very best you can afford) 3. Monitors ….. needs another mention 4. Monitors …. hopefully point made Now you can actually hear accurately which ever tools (software/hardware) you’re using. Remember your monitoring will determine how you operate and apply your mix tools - that’s incredibly fundamental. Now you can start producing music from a defined baseline of reliable soundscape. Plug-ins are today, very very good (Dan will repeatedly tell you this anyway :-)) So mix with a great selection of great plug-ins and hear your results - many top mixers work this way with amazing success. Now you can make a change. an addition. If you’re tracking - a great mic/ preamp/ compressor and see how the addition effects the quality of your productions. If it’s a mix focus you’re going for, I’d add a fantastic hardware stereo compressor to your mix bus- the topology of which (VCA, vari-mu, diode bridge) can be determined by the genre you’re mainly producing in. It’s very easy to be indulgent with gear and have that FOMO syndrome get a grip of you - it will drain your wallet quicker than you can say “if only I had a ….” I’d stay results focused and that way you’ll be very efficient spending money …. instead of pouring it into an endlessly deep hole, even if owning gear is huge a pleasure in itself Good luck I appreciate the long and thorough feedback. Monitors are Focal Shape Twins. Room is partially treated, as much as I can do. Headphones: Beyer DT 1770 Pro's.
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Post by theshea on Aug 9, 2024 6:37:12 GMT -6
i am gonna suggest a betterizer piece i am interested myself right now: spl vitalizer mk3. seems to do some nice things on the mixbus. maybe i am gonna order one myself. seems to give a nice polishing sheen with a good bass and bit of demasking. a stereo widener is also included. a mixbus comp is missing thats all. and not too expensive.
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 9, 2024 6:37:25 GMT -6
Someone should jump on this. Doesn’t look like GC ship to Canuckistan, unfortunately. Cheers, Geoff Get a Myusaddress.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 9, 2024 9:27:38 GMT -6
IMHO upgrade that NT1*, on vocals. Most likely, it's at least a bit of a sonic bottleneck. Even my $100 AKG P120 (close mic'd) gives it a run for the money. As you know, higher rung LDC choices are a plenty. I'd expect also a Classic Dynamic ala M88/RE20/441 to be an upgrade. (AKG D770/D790's for cheap $leepers BTW) Especially for a semi-treated Room. Chris *Yes I've sung/tested that model. Other than self noise, I like their 'ol M3 better! Spend a little more if possible though.
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Post by geoff738 on Aug 9, 2024 12:40:24 GMT -6
Someone should jump on this. Doesn’t look like GC ship to Canuckistan, unfortunately. Cheers, Geoff My co-writer lives in Waterloo, eh.... My kid is moving there at the end of the month. I am guessing I might get to know it better. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by bluesholyman on Aug 9, 2024 13:01:59 GMT -6
IMHO upgrade that NT1*, on vocals. Most likely, it's at least a bit of a sonic bottleneck. Even my $100 AKG P120 (close mic'd) gives it a run for the money. As you know, higher rung LDC choices are a plenty. I'd expect also a Classic Dynamic ala M88/RE20/441 to be an upgrade. (AKG D770/D790's for cheap $leepers BTW) Especially for a semi-treated Room. Chris *Yes I've sung/tested that model. Other than self noise, I like their 'ol M3 better! Spend a little more if possible though. Danke. I"ve been tempted to get a Precision 220 at least. I've been jonesing for a 441 for sometime - just a bit beyond affordable for now. There is also a Bluebird and Baby Bottle in the locker, just figured the NT1 would get used more. Thoughts on those two vs NT1 et al?
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Post by doubledog on Aug 9, 2024 13:35:22 GMT -6
IMHO upgrade that NT1*, on vocals. Most likely, it's at least a bit of a sonic bottleneck. Even my $100 AKG P120 (close mic'd) gives it a run for the money. As you know, higher rung LDC choices are a plenty. I'd expect also a Classic Dynamic ala M88/RE20/441 to be an upgrade. (AKG D770/D790's for cheap $leepers BTW) Especially for a semi-treated Room. Chris *Yes I've sung/tested that model. Other than self noise, I like their 'ol M3 better! Spend a little more if possible though. Danke. I"ve been tempted to get a Precision 220 at least. I've been jonesing for a 441 for sometime - just a bit beyond affordable for now. There is also a Bluebird and Baby Bottle in the locker, just figured the NT1 would get used more. Thoughts on those two vs NT1 et al? probably not going to get you much more in the direction you want. besides many of the mics already mentioned, an AKG 414 (reasonably priced used) or some of the Lauten, JZ, Vanguard, Roswell, Mojave -- I mean there is a slew of really good solid state (FET) mics under $1000 that would be a serious upgrade. btw, I've got both an MD-441 (late 70's I believe - based on serial #) and I still use the SM7B a lot more for vocals if I'm using a dynamic mic. A lot of videos made using 441's where they didn't actually record with that mic (it just looks cool, but so does an EV 664)
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Post by chessparov on Aug 9, 2024 16:24:40 GMT -6
IMHO upgrade that NT1*, on vocals. Most likely, it's at least a bit of a sonic bottleneck. Even my $100 AKG P120 (close mic'd) gives it a run for the money. As you know, higher rung LDC choices are a plenty. I'd expect also a Classic Dynamic ala M88/RE20/441 to be an upgrade. (AKG D770/D790's for cheap $leepers BTW) Especially for a semi-treated Room. Chris *Yes I've sung/tested that model. Other than self noise, I like their 'ol M3 better! Spend a little more if possible though. Danke. I"ve been tempted to get a Precision 220 at least. I've been jonesing for a 441 for sometime - just a bit beyond affordable for now. There is also a Bluebird and Baby Bottle in the locker, just figured the NT1 would get used more. Thoughts on those two vs NT1 et al? Which Baby Bottle? The SL was a bit blah on me... So a while back I gave it as a gift to two local best friends (Husband/Wife) Also had an AKG 200 Perception. Those reminded me of a "Poor Man's" TLM 103-on vocals. Sold it to a "good home", where it's getting used on a Drum set. Bluebird was/is a bit too bright on my bright-ish voice. 200 Series AKG was at least as bright. Typically I embrace the Neutral to Dark-ish side of the Farce. Chris P.S. If you can't step up to a FET Beesneez (Oliver FET is around $400 US)... I'd take a used Oktava 219/319 over your NT1 FWIW.
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Post by bluesholyman on Aug 10, 2024 14:01:58 GMT -6
Danke. I"ve been tempted to get a Precision 220 at least. I've been jonesing for a 441 for sometime - just a bit beyond affordable for now. There is also a Bluebird and Baby Bottle in the locker, just figured the NT1 would get used more. Thoughts on those two vs NT1 et al? Which Baby Bottle? The SL was a bit blah on me... So a while back I gave it as a gift to two local best friends (Husband/Wife) Also had an AKG 200 Perception. Those reminded me of a "Poor Man's" TLM 103-on vocals. Sold it to a "good home", where it's getting used on a Drum set. Bluebird was/is a bit too bright on my bright-ish voice. 200 Series AKG was at least as bright. Typically I embrace the Neutral to Dark-ish side of the Farce. Chris P.S. If you can't step up to a FET Beesneez (Oliver FET is around $400 US)... I'd take a used Oktava 219/319 over your NT1 FWIW. The Farce is strong with this one....learn from him, you must.... The Baby Bottle is the SL, so is the Bluebird. I got them cheap...Just need to play with these and see if I can make them work for now. A TLM 102 has piqued my interest in the inexpensive category (of used mics.) I had a shot at a couple used 319s at a Sam Ash (near Nashville) before they closed their doors. Weren't discounted much at the time, so I passed and then headed back home. For now, I'll probably have to make due with what I have and then get a "good" mic at my earliest convenience....but I get these aren't the mics I'm looking for and I should move along...move along...
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Post by ironinthepath on Aug 10, 2024 14:14:38 GMT -6
A used TLM102 can be had for some really good deals, in my experience. Just wait until somebody who bought during lockdown times gets tired of it. I might be in the minority, but I like that mic. It’s tiny physically, but doesn’t sound that way.
Paired with a solid pre, it’s capable of “pro” recordings in my opinion (whatever that means). Sounds nice on many things and has a bit of that Neumann voicing but a bit more dark if I had to describe it. Can handle vocals.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 10, 2024 17:04:22 GMT -6
It's a very nice mic too. (TLM 102) Particularly at used prices. Chris
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Post by smashlord on Aug 13, 2024 21:57:39 GMT -6
I'd try to get a decent mic collection going before getting too deep into outboard. Never underestimate the power of the right mic on the right source... It do far more for your recordings than any processing after the fact.
That said, a good, broad console-style EQ is nice to have for shaping sounds on the way in. I like a 550A or 550B for that.
If you prefer a compressor, an 1176 style comp is always a solid choice. Everyone and their extended networks of Facebook friends and Instagram followers will shout at you from the 4 corners of the Earth that a Distressor should be your first compressor because "its so versatile" but an 1176 is arguably just as versatile and typically sounds cooler, not to mention its a no-brainer to dial in.
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Post by geoff738 on Aug 14, 2024 16:56:08 GMT -6
I'd try to get a decent mic collection going before getting too deep into outboard. Never underestimate the power of the right mic on the right source... It do far more for your recordings than any processing after the fact. That said, a good, broad console-style EQ is nice to have for shaping sounds on the way in. I like a 550A or 550B for that. If you prefer a compressor, an 1176 style comp is always a solid choice. Everyone and their extended networks of Facebook friends and Instagram followers will shout at you from the 4 corners of the Earth that a Distressor should be your first compressor because "its so versatile" but an 1176 is arguably just as versatile and typically sounds cooler, not to mention its a no-brainer to dial in. Totally agree on the mics. Which ones is another topic entirely. I would suggest at least having a look at the Iron Age eqs. And now that places are blowing out the KT 1176, one of those. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by doubledog on Sept 27, 2024 9:06:27 GMT -6
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Post by geoff738 on Sept 27, 2024 15:53:21 GMT -6
Great price but sadly they won’t ship up here. Cheers, Geoff
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