Trinnov Nova vs Sonarworks... what's the real difference?

The idea of bass being non-directional is utter B.S. The fact that it isn't was proven during the early 1930s at Bell Labs!

This is the tough part if your system doesn't have two subwoofer outs. I have an el-cheapo Presonus T10 as my main subwoofer that has a subwoofer out, specifically for that feature. It's one of the reasons (other than $$, obviously) I haven't upgraded to a Neumann system or otherwise, because their room correction requires their own subs and even then not really dual subs. 

BUT, don't get too far ahead of yourself, you may find after some trial and error that the improvements with one sub, properly positioned, are enough. Have you modeled your room with the REQ Wizard room sim to find a good starting point for the optimal placement? 

Well yeah you have those Duntech / Dunleveys😁

I was going to post that in many ways subs are a very poor band aide for a problem we have made for ourselves. Think about it, it’s not like for most people we say hey why don’t you just pick a random tweeter.
It’s unfortunate that most manufacturers don’t design near fields / subs as a system. They market them as such , but you you would be surprised how many “ matching subs” are designed by different teams than the monitors.

An intergrated system be it in one or 2 cabinets would be great.

I don’t neeed a sub. I just like them because imo, the playback always seems to sound better.

+1

Every time I use a sub, demo a sub, buy (and then sell) a sub ....

I end up going back to my basic set up.

I prefer my ATC 25's without a sub.

I have a couple  of 2.1 systems I use for writing and they're fun and vibey (perfect for that environment) but I way prefer tracking, editing and mixing without a sub.

Does the Trinniv lower across all frequencies automatically?

If I'm understanding you correctly, are you saying that it's basically lowering the volume at all frequencies other than where there are nulls? I suppose that could make sense, as boosting at a null is more or less the same as cutting everywhere but the nulls, in very general terms.

To me, it’s the difference in hearing the bottom end or also feeling the bottom end.

I had no idea either...dok and ericn have had some great ideas - you guys wanna share?

Alright, happy to share the method I use - I only ask that it's received in the spirit in which it was intended, which is to cheerfully outline a process to determine speaker, subwoofer, and listening position placement that is measurable and reproduce-able. I don't make any claims that it's better than any other system, only the fact that it *is* a system, compared to much of the advice you'll find online which is little better than guessing, but I've learned that especially the theory of subwoofer application used here really tends to get some people riled up. And I'm happy to answer any questions I've learned, but I really don't want to get deep into the weeds about *whether* it works - some of it is rather counterintuitive, but it always works for me and maybe it will work for you!

Essentially this is a dumbed down, DIY version of Carl Tatz's Phantom Focus system - I am not affiliated with him whatsoever, but I am extremely grateful that he has posted the basics of his methodology for free on his website here: www.phantomfocus.com/Default.asp. If you read my instructions below and you want to take things to the next, actual professional level, you should 100% get in touch with him and I have no doubt it would be worth every penny. Someday when I own a permanent space that's exactly what I'm going to do. Thanks, Carl! 

With those disclaimers out of the way, here it is: Dok's guide to monitor placement in your HOME recording studio

OK here are the basics the idea is true stereo not just 2 subs we will get to the whys after the explanation of why after th explanation of basic hook up & position starting point.

It’s very similar to hooking up a mono sub, and for this explanation we will assume you are using a powered sub with built in crossover for both High pass ( monitors) low pass sub ( subs).

First read your subs manual it really shouldn’t matter but various subs have different suggestions as to which input you should use on the crossover for a single mono input ( each sub gets one mono input for dual mono / stereo) make sure though you are reading about how to keep the crossover engaged, some subs have an input for THX that bypasses the crossover.

From here it’s pretty simple take the left output of the monitor controller to most likely the left input ( old school default for mono operation is left ) of the sub then take left high pass out to the left monitor we are assuming powered monitors).
For the right take the right out of the monitor controller to the left ch input of your right sub and the left ch high pass to the left monitor.

Now if you’re running monitors like my Quested F11 actives or most Genelecs with settings for high pass / LF roll off that will work as the crossover we can clean up the signal a bit, most of the crossover’s digital or analog built into subs suck so if we can remove it from the chain best to do it. In this case we need some Y cables. Take the Y cable out of the monitor controller left ch out one end of the Y goes to the monitor set the LF roll off to your x over frequency, take the other end to the subs left input set the x over to as close as you can to the x-over frequency. Repeat for right using the right out put.

Let’s get a bit geeky I never trust the calibration/ labeling of variable crossovers use a 1/6 th octave RTA or FFT app on your phone to dial in that variable crossover as flat as you can, you will probably see a bit of a dip ( less than 3 dB) no matter what you do. If your best results are from having your 2 halves of the crossover at slightly different frequencies ( within 1.5 octaves) no biggie asymmetrical crossovers are pretty common.

Now for positioning starting point the idea here is to make the sub and the monitor act as one not a separate sub and and monitor, I’m going to make a bit of an assumption that your crossover frequencies are less than 125hz. If we use 125hz as are defacto guide 250 hz is one octave above so at best we are probably going to have the sub -24 db at 250hz if we can get the sub phase aligned with it’s monitor by front to back moving of the sub & or monitor or DSP the woofer & the subs driver will acusticallly sum if we can get the cones within .8m not the cabinets, not the frames or the suspensions / surrounds but the actual cones.
The easiest way to find the best alignment position front to back is to start by playing a tone at the x over frequency switch the polarity of the monitor move the speaker or the sub till the tone is basically nothing or its lowest level because of phase cancellation, now play tones an octave above and below the crossover frequency and see how well they null. Your best position is going to probably be where ever those 3 tones are at their over all lowest. While if we go with the point with the best cancellation at the crossover point we would be technically “ time aligned if they perfectly cancel, that isn’t necessarily going to translate to the overall best position because we are dealing with the phase response of 2 different drivers and filters on each side.


When you get the position and level adjustments right you will notice less mid bass suck out, loads more 200hz chest thump.

Better definition of the harmonics of LF instruments. Your sound stage might change a bit because your panning is going to actually determine your LF positioning & over the years I have noticed that a lot of subs use a simple trick to get some more umph when they combine left & right they don’t do it equally they will usually give left a .5 to 1db boost to counter any phase cancellation, you won’t have t any more.

That's what I'm going to do if I do it. Just get another cheap KRK 10S...