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Post by doubledog on Sept 5, 2024 20:37:44 GMT -6
I just received an Antelope Orion 32+ Gen4 (and an MRC). Got a deal recently and jumped on it... I'm hoping it was the right decision. So far not a good feeling. Took it out of the box, followed the directions online and no bueno. It would not see the unit to activate it even though the OS sees it (Windows 10 - drivers are loaded, etc.). Called support and after several minutes of hold was forced to leave a message. Tried the online chat. Nobody home. Filled out an online ticket and got a call back several hours later (luckily I picked up - so many scam/spam calls these days...) and spoke with a guy who magically had a newer version of the software - that unmagically - is not available online. Guess what? Yeah, it worked. It now saw the interface and was able to register it. So then I got to the next step - download a bunch of software. After that got done, I'm not sure everything is there - I can't find the "control panel" that launches the routing matrix? Anyway, had a band rehearsal and then I'll dive in again tomorrow (hopefully with a clear head) and see if I can figure out what's going on. I know if I can get it straightened out, it will be an excellent interface (32 i/o!) but god dammit I see why Antelope gets such a bad reputation. The only publicly available software for their latest and greatest interface doesn't even work? hoping tomorrow goes better (and I am pretty tech savvy btw...). If not, I'll be trying to send it back. So anyway, I figured I would document this here and I'll either put in some details of what to do (or not to do) or I'll wave the white flag, give up and go back to my Apollo 16.  |
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Post by geoff738 on Sept 5, 2024 20:47:39 GMT -6
I have an Antelope interface. S bit more downmarket than yours.
Download the Antelope launcher app. Open that up and you should see your device under the devices tab. Clicking on the device should start up their confusing routing thingy. My device is not the same as the Orion however.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by drumsound on Sept 5, 2024 21:04:25 GMT -6
I use my original Orion every day, but I wouldn't suggest someone buy a new one. I'm glad that I was able to use an RME MADIface as it was much less expensive than new converters, and I don't even know what I would have bought.
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Post by doubledog on Sept 5, 2024 21:09:41 GMT -6
I have an Antelope interface. S bit more downmarket than yours. Download the Antelope launcher app. Open that up and you should see your device under the devices tab. Clicking on the device should start up their confusing routing thingy. My device is not the same as the Orion however. Cheers, Geoff oh, I know how it's supposed to work.  That's my point. It's their currently shipping product and it did not work. I just don't get that. I had one of the original Orion 32's (but like 15 years ago) and it worked just fine but at the time I decided I wanted the Apollo (and that has mostly worked great for the last 15 years - but now I want more I/O) |
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Post by geoff738 on Sept 5, 2024 21:17:25 GMT -6
Ah ok. Apologies for being Captain Obvious. Yeah I have had a fair amount of hair pulling moments with mine. Including the last couple weeks. I do think it sounds good and had the i/o I was looking for but yeah frustrating bit of kit at times.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by doubledog on Sept 6, 2024 10:25:02 GMT -6
Well, I've gotten the control panel to load now. For whatever reason when I installed the software "bundle" that part did not install (and showed it was version "0" in the launcher). So I told it to install again and now its installed and running. Next challenge is to figure out how to create separate headphone mixes (if it can do that? I hope so...).
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Sept 6, 2024 13:18:34 GMT -6
Not familiar with Antelope but in my experience nothing works at first. Not Apollo. Not MOTU (good God certainly not MOTU!!!).
And then it does work and you forget.
I wouldn't worry.
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Post by geoff738 on Sept 6, 2024 14:38:35 GMT -6
It should do a second headphone mix. And more than one monitor mix as well. But I find the control panel routing completely unintuitive. Drives me crazy. But actually makes sense once you grok it.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by doubledog on Sept 6, 2024 15:24:26 GMT -6
yeah, the Orion routing matrix is different than the UA Console, that's for sure. They are all different of course... I think I'm starting to get the hang of it. I spent the past couple hours labeling my I/O - which I hoped was going to pass through to Pro Tools but unfortunately those labels only show up in the Orion Control Panel. So I spent more time re-labeling I/O in Pro Tools again... Don't get me wrong, it helps to label both sides, but it would be nice if it didn't rely on my labeling both sides separately (which is prone to human error). Then I opened a session, reassigned I/O, and I was able to get some audio -- patching the main outs of the Orion 32 into my headphone amp - because I have not ripped the old gear out yet. I'm testing these things before I do that because I know I'm going to be down for at least a day when I rewire everything.
Anyway, I was able to use the 4 internal "mixers" to send audio to my headphone amp (which can have 3 separate mixes for tracking - it's the Nady HPA-8 and the A input goes to HP channel 1-4, B goes to 5-6, and C goes to 7-8). I did the same with the UA console where I used the "cue mixes" (cue 1-4). So my main outputs go to physical ports "monitor 1-2" and then I duplicate the same to line output 1-2. If I want everyone to have the same mix in headphones, then I drag that main out 1-2 to line out 3-4, 5-6, and 7-8 as well (ok, 7-8 actually does nothing right now, but I can connect that to a second headphone amp someday). I did the same thing in UA Console by setting cue1-4 to the main mix, or to line 3-4, 5-6, 7-8, etc. and using the aux sends to send to those cue mixes.
I'll post a screenshot here later of what I have going so far.
I guess next test is to make sure that mic pres and such pass audio into the inputs.. but I don't have spare DB25 to TRS snakes lying around... but have a couple more on order and should arrive tomorrow. I'm actually only planning to connect up 24 of the 32 channels right now (since these snakes cost $$ and I don't really need more than 24 I/O right now).
Oh, and I need to test and see if my system can handle 32 I/O over USB or if I need to set it back to USB 24 channel mode.
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Post by mattbroiler on Sept 6, 2024 15:26:50 GMT -6
Once you figure it out the Antelope control panel routing is great in my opinion
I don't think it's difficult at all to work with just select and drag the inputs down to wherever you want them to go
like most things deciding how one wants to configure the routing takes awhile but actual setups and changes are easy and instantaneous
Mixer 1 has their Auraverb (I never use it) so if you want the built in reverb in the headphones set the output of mixer 1 to headphone 1 and for the second mix send mixer 2 to headphone 2 or however you like it and populate the mixers with the channels you want to hear
hopefully things settle down and work reliably for you once you get the initial routing setup going
my Orion Studio 2016 continues to be very stable on windows 10 I have no plans to change anything there
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Post by doubledog on Sept 6, 2024 15:30:50 GMT -6
Mixer 1 has their Auraverb (I never use it) so if you want the built in reverb in the headphones set the output of mixer 1 to headphone 1 and for the second mix send mixer 2 to headphone 2 or however you like it and populate the mixers with the channels you want to hear yeah, I was kind of surprised/disappointed that all 4 mixers can't use Auraverb. I guess that means if we're tracking and the singer wants verb in their cans, they get mixer1 and anyone else with a separate mix will get dry vocals. not a big deal I guess. |
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Post by mattbroiler on Sept 6, 2024 15:35:45 GMT -6
I've never done it this exact way but you can route the output of Mixer 1 into Mixers 2 3 and 4 so there are ways to get the onboard reverb into the other mixer panels as well
agree it would be handier to have the reverb available for a second mixer panel/headphone mix but that's not a total showstopper
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Post by doubledog on Sept 6, 2024 19:29:22 GMT -6
couple things I am noticing (or struggling with still)....
-- I can't figure out if there is a way to load a specific session (i.e., routing configuration) by "default'? It seems to revert to some other default config and I have to "load" my config. But maybe I'm missing something (and it certainly doesn't appear to be in the Antelope documentation, which is not surprising since it is lacking a lot of things..). Seems like I have to open control panel and load a saved session each time, but seems like there has to be a way to set a "default" saved session? UA console did that...
--Shortcuts... In the UA Console I could alt-click set it back to default and ctrl-click to "adjust all" (i.e., mute) or ctrl+alt+click to set all to default. So ctrl-click on the mute for channel 1 and it would actually mute all channels. Or I could ctrl+alt-click a fader and they would all snap back to 0. In the mixer I know I can double-click the knobs (pan or whatever) and they will go back to default (0) in the Antelope control panel, but I have not figured out a way to select all of them (where in the routing matrix you can shift-click a row or multiple channels at once). Maybe I'm missing it, or maybe it doesn't work. It's a lot more work to mute 32 channels one at a time (with a mouse!)...
I'll probably save up a few more questions and hit support if nobody else has an easy answer off the top of their head?
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Post by doubledog on Sept 6, 2024 19:34:44 GMT -6
I have the MRC (unopened) but since it is really designed with surround mixing in mind I'm not sure if I will keep it (I can't see that I really have a need for it). I'll use the volume knob on the front of the unit (like I did with the Apollo 16) or the software mixer (also as I did with the Apollo) and I still have an analog (DIY) monitor switcher that lets me go between 2 pair of monitors (same as I did with the Apollo).
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Post by doubledog on Sept 8, 2024 10:12:03 GMT -6
Found a FB users group where an Antelope PM hangs out. He said it is supposed to return to the settings that I saved (it is not) so looks like yet another bug (and I still haven't tried to record anything) so I submitted a support ticket to see if they have any other ideas (or if they intend to fix it). The routing config is actually correct, it's actually just the window parameters that are not getting saved - so when I hide I/O I'm not using, or resize the window, it forgets that part (which is annoying because UA console could do that with no problem). Still never sure why UA never offered a USB option for the Apollos (other than the very i/o limited twin - but the fact that they have that means it would have been pretty easy to put it on other interfaces or an option card like they have for TB - they just don't want my business) here's the routing setups I have so far... one if for mixing, or when everyone is ok to have the same headphone cue mix  then, this one is setup for 4 different headphone cue mixes (where I can use the internal mixers - not shown here- to adjust levels to each hp mix). Kind of annoyed that Auraverb will only work in mixer 1 (without some creative routing)  once you figure out the I/O routing it makes sense and dragging and dropping individual or groups, or whole rows of I/O is pretty easy. |
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Post by mattbroiler on Sept 9, 2024 10:07:55 GMT -6
Things I find weird with the control panel - granted mine is an older version and these things may not apply to your version/model
yeah looking at your screenshots this is a different software but the concept/function is similar.
The mic / line inputs always default to mic - the line in setting does not ever get saved with the control panel config. The line in works when mic is selected and vice versa so mic/line inputs are wired together. Probably a padded signal on line in? Sometimes I forget to switch the inputs so lately I leave it on mic in and adjust levels and it works fine.
The last session settings are loaded when you power on but the session itself is not loaded. I always start out by reloading the last/desired session and that moves the window to whatever position it was saved in. It will run without a computer so if you have things set the way you want you can use it standalone.
I have not figured out how to multiple select and manipulate channels in the mixer panels so yeah I have to go through and change things one channel at a time. Have not put much effort in to trying to figure it out but it would be handy to have a keyboard shortcut for that.
good luck getting it going the way you want and I hope it works out one way or another. Despite the quirks I definitely get good functionality and sound out of the Orion Studio. I have it paired with an Apollo X8 so I can relate to the UA and Antelope differences. They both have their pros and cons but they pair up nicely and work well together.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083 
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Post by ericn on Sept 10, 2024 14:39:21 GMT -6
I use my original Orion every day, but I wouldn't suggest someone buy a new one. I'm glad that I was able to use an RME MADIface as it was much less expensive than new converters, and I don't even know what I would have bought. The sad part is I have to say that is probably the best way to use an Orion. Antelope conversion is pretty good, getting it to work with a computer sucks! It reminds me of 90s ProTools, but at least with PT we great documentation on how to build a working system, it meant you couldn’t just grab the latest greatest computer, but at least you knew what would work. |
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Post by doubledog on Sept 10, 2024 16:22:32 GMT -6
I was planning to tear up my studio and install the Orion 32+ today but then got 2 drum projects that came in, so I'm going to hold off until those are complete (and I can test the Orion 32+ fully rather than use one of them as a guinea pig).
Antelope support has actually been fairly responsive (although it is almost always when I'm sleeping, via email/web). I have a few open tickets but some of them I don't expect a quick fix since they are "feature requests" (asking for some pretty simple things though - like multi-select of mute buttons so I don't have to click a mute button 32 times in the virtual mixer - I mean, come on...)
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Post by drumsound on Sept 10, 2024 21:06:14 GMT -6
I use my original Orion every day, but I wouldn't suggest someone buy a new one. I'm glad that I was able to use an RME MADIface as it was much less expensive than new converters, and I don't even know what I would have bought. The sad part is I have to say that is probably the best way to use an Orion. Antelope conversion is pretty good, getting it to work with a computer sucks! It reminds me of 90s ProTools, but at least with PT we great documentation on how to build a working system, it meant you couldn’t just grab the latest greatest computer, but at least you knew what would work. I really haven't had a sonic complaint with them. |
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Post by geoff738 on Sept 11, 2024 12:42:34 GMT -6
I know I don’t have the same control panel as the Orion, but I can mute either headphone or monitor with one click. I dont believe there’s a global setting that mutes everything though.
It would be weird if you couldnt mute individual headphone or monitor outs on the Orion.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by doubledog on Sept 11, 2024 13:03:16 GMT -6
I know I don’t have the same control panel as the Orion, but I can mute either headphone or monitor with one click. I dont believe there’s a global setting that mutes everything though. It would be weird if you couldnt mute individual headphone or monitor outs on the Orion. Cheers, Geoff I think I can probably mute a single headphone out easily. Pressing the main dial on the front of the interface is a monitor mute (or the CP has a software button too) so that's easy. For tracking I usually have all of the mics going into the mix and then I'll build a mix for each headphone cue. but sometimes I want them all all muted (like if I'm mixing) but so far I've had to mute all 32 individual mutes in the virtual mixer and yes there is a "master" mute but that's not what I want. I want to start muted and then open up channels as needed. Sometimes I want to reset all faders to 0 as well (like after a session is over) . Can't seem to do any of these things -- but I could do them easily on the Apollo 16. And we've been shift-clicking (multi-selecting) since 1998 so I don't quite understand how or why Antelope didn't get the memo on this. So far their support has only confirmed they did not... |
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Post by doubledog on Sept 14, 2024 22:08:00 GMT -6
My back hurts! Too much time crouching behind the rack wiring, re-wiring, and of course using the swiffer duster... but anyway, got it all setup and installed. I figured out that the "mixing" routing (screenshot earlier) didn't really work. I needed to send Mix1 L/R to the line out 1-2 (and in the mixer I had the DAW output 1-2 going to inputs 31-32 - that allowed me to monitor the DAW outputs). But got that all straightened out. Still annoyed about some things (Antelope/Orion control panel) but I was probably annoyed with the Apollo 16 when I first go it - just don't remember now, I've been using it so long. So I'll change my workflow and get used to it... again. I've got 24 channels wired through the patch bays. One of them is fully normalled and is connected to all of the inputs of the Orion 32+, and then to all of my my preamps. It's not quite 24 channels. 17/18 are empty because I have 2 empty slots in a 500V chassis, and 24 is empty (nothing connected -- yet). I don't have a snake on inputs 25-32 yet - I may later, but doing ok with 24 for now.
On the output side, I have 3 DB25 to TRS snakes going to the second patchbay. 1-8 are normalled and connected through to my headphone amp (actually only 1-6 is). Then 9-24 are all configured as "thru" and I have outputs 9-16 on the top row of patch bay 9-16, and outputs 17-24 on the bottom row of patch bay 9-16. Then patch bay 17-24 I have some outboard gear connected (compressors, EQs) so I can patch in after the pres if I want, or into the DAW. All working pretty well. Some day I may get a 3rd patchbay and snakes, and wire the rest of it but I'll get by for now.
I did some recording in 32 channel mode (vs. 24 channel mode) and it seemed like it was working although I noticed a few times where it kind of stopped responding (it never stopped recording, it just would not start) and the Antelope control panel showed a blank "clock source" so I need to investigate that more. I also noticed that my record levels seemed a little lower (but the monitor output louder), and it's likely because the Apollo had a in/out reference level of 20dB and the Orion is 24dB. I set it to 22dB as a compromise for now.
and my P-Touch label maker got a work out again...
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Post by doubledog on Sept 16, 2024 14:01:03 GMT -6
did some more testing. I've noticed that the Control Panel will randomly "lose" the clock source (and just shows nothing) and the Sample Rate is "not available". I don't think it is affecting record or playback though - seems like maybe the CP is just losing it's mind (not surprising, I'm getting close myself here...). It might be when I launch a Pro Tools session. If I click on the clock source and choose "internal" then it seems to be fine again... for awhile. I thought maybe I need to disable "exclusive mode" for the Windows sound setting (that sometimes tripped up other interfaces I've used) but it did not make a difference. So I did submit a ticket to Antelope (again) but just curious if anyone else has seen anything like that? Of course if I find that I'm getting pops and glitches I'm not going to be happy... but nothing detected yet. On the upside, I was changing some templates (because I/O changed) and opening various sessions that were at different sample rates, and I was able to do that with ease, where my Apollo 16 would give me a BSOD about 50% (or more) of the time. So I had gotten in the habit of just shutting down Pro Tools and then changing the sample rate, and then reopening Pro Tools, etc. before opening the next session  . Sometimes I would forget and ... BOOM. bluescreen. I know it is not supposed to do that but UA certainly wasn't going to fix it either (and it's definitely the fault of their FW driver - shows it in the dump files). Anyway, I also created a couple sessions @44.1, @96 and @192 and armed all 32 channels and hit record. I would go for awhile, stop, start again, go back and overlap previous. Then I opened some fairly resources heavy plugins on all 32 channels, and opened 4 instances of Sound City UADx, and even though I was recording (mostly) silence, it was going fine, even at 192Khz (my Apollo could not do that). CPU and local disk (SSD) were getting hit pretty hard too (as expected) but it kept up and I'm excited about that. New computer will be on the way soon and hopefully have power to spare. |
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Post by andtide on Sept 17, 2024 20:51:50 GMT -6
I’ve had the Orion synergy core for a couple months.
I wanted to throw that thing in a pit during set up. This is not an “us” thing. It’s horrendous.
But then I got it working. And it is FLIPPING ROCK SOLID.
Sounds really great. The routing ui is fine.
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Post by doubledog on Sept 17, 2024 22:12:05 GMT -6
waiting to hear back from Antelope support, but I did a bunch of testing today and I think it may just be a bug where the "control" app does not have all of the statuses. It is missing "usb". when Pro Tools or even a media player (for example, I play an mp3) app "grabs" the interface, the control panel gives a blank status, but the front panel shows "clock:usb", and when the app releases it, then it goes back to "clock:internal" and then the control panel wakes up and usually shows the same. So while it is functional and seems to be working right, their shitty software is about to drive me crazy. I am waiting to hear what their support will tell me or how they will explain this. Probably another "feature"...
but the good news is no pops or glitches while it is recording. it seems to be able to do that part pretty well so far.
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That's my point. It's their currently shipping product and it did not work. I just don't get that. I had one of the original Orion 32's (but like 15 years ago) and it worked just fine but at the time I decided I wanted the Apollo (and that has mostly worked great for the last 15 years - but now I want more I/O)
. Sometimes I would forget and ... BOOM. bluescreen. I know it is not supposed to do that but UA certainly wasn't going to fix it either (and it's definitely the fault of their FW driver - shows it in the dump files). Anyway, I also created a couple sessions @44.1, @96 and @192 and armed all 32 channels and hit record. I would go for awhile, stop, start again, go back and overlap previous. Then I opened some fairly resources heavy plugins on all 32 channels, and opened 4 instances of Sound City UADx, and even though I was recording (mostly) silence, it was going fine, even at 192Khz (my Apollo could not do that). CPU and local disk (SSD) were getting hit pretty hard too (as expected) but it kept up and I'm excited about that. New computer will be on the way soon and hopefully have power to spare.
