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Post by professorplum on Nov 4, 2024 18:04:48 GMT -6
Ahhh I see. Thanks for the quick heads up!
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Post by geoff738 on Nov 4, 2024 18:37:47 GMT -6
Whoa whoa whoa, did I miss something? Johnkenn have you sold your AxeFX? Or are you in the "considering it" phase? Or neither? I did. Oof. I really hope tou still feel that way six months from now. I still have the Ruby in pedal form. And like it. Will see if the Lion makes me more happy than the Friedman from PA does. Cheers, Geoff |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 4, 2024 22:29:41 GMT -6
I did. I spent about a week with these and I was blown away. The Axe sounds fantastic, but these sound just as good - and honestly - maybe a little better. I think this is the thread I talked about it. I might ultimately decide that overcoming the latency thing is just too much - I haven’t used these in a real world scenario…but I figured I’d get ahead of the game and sell the axe…as they’re getting a little harder to sell now that software is catching up. Edited to add - probably more of a business decision than a “this sounds better.” I could get the axe to sound like the UA…but it was way less intuitive than the UA. You open the plug and they sound awesome off the bat. And there are some nonlinearities in these - just “raw” sounding that sounds a little less perfect than the axe. I’m gonna miss a few of those amps - Vibroverb, Super, Morgan…but $1500 vs. $109. $109 just made more sense. Lion, I think it's about as good as the old UAD Plexi. They just modeled different amps. Softube did a scuzzier super lead than them. UAD did a scuzzier super bass. The brown amp is super cool and saggy. I think the Softube Lemmy and Kerry King definitely have more balls though with the right irs. The UA ones are more pushed right off the bat from the gain staging and the irs are canned so if some dude died through a pedal, they're not really what you want. Also, underrated are the Waves PRS supermodels. You should check them up. The included pedals are irs are absolute dogshit though. They sound like Waves GTR 3 nonsense but the amp modeling is decent on the PRS ones.
I'm starting to like the Neural and Mercuriall marshalls less everytime I try them. The fizz is way off.
Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan… |
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Post by Henry_Berg on Nov 5, 2024 8:06:23 GMT -6
Sorry to insist, but I never got a proper reply.
-On gen1 X Apollos (x4,x6,x8..etc), considering these amp sims are NOT using DSP (like the 55 Tweed, etc) is the latency TOLERABLE for tracking directly while playing through them? if yes, Will you please specify the DAW, sample rate and buffer you use?
-Does the TS overdrive plugin inserted and bypassed on a Unison slot in console, make a difference, on the amps, as some have mentioned?
I'd have to shell €180 for the 3 amps plus the TS, which is a great price, actually, but I'm so burned buying plugins I'd never use later due to some isssue (I own 80% of all UAD).
The ruby/dream/Lion sound great as pedals, and are great for apartments/on the go, but they're €1,200 for the three. If the latency on the plugins is acceptable through an apollo to track trough, I'll buy them before prices go up again (crazy UAD policies!)
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Post by phantom on Nov 5, 2024 8:38:49 GMT -6
Sorry to insist, but I never got a proper reply. -On gen1 X Apollos (x4,x6,x8..etc), considering these amp sims are NOT using DSP (like the 55 Tweed, etc) is the latency TOLERABLE for tracking directly while playing through them? if yes, Will you please specify the DAW, sample rate and buffer you use? -Does the TS overdrive plugin inserted and bypassed on a Unison slot in console, make a difference, on the amps, as some have mentioned? I'd have to shell €180 for the 3 amps plus the TS, which is a great price, actually, but I'm so burned buying plugins I'd never use later due to some isssue (I own 80% of all UAD). The ruby/dream/Lion sound great as pedals, and are great for apartments/on the go, but they're €1,200 for the three. If the latency on the plugins is acceptable through an apollo to track trough, I'll buy them before prices go up again (crazy UAD policies!) Just try them on your system. That's the best way to answer these kind of questions. Things can be extremely different from system to system. In my end, with both RME and Motu interfaces, the latency is fine. I'm using Pro Tools. Sample Rate, both 48k and 96k. Buffer size? The least you could do. I'm here mostly at 64. About the TS plugin on Unison... I doubt it'll give you anything spetacular. If you want the Tube Screamer sound or its Buffer, or its Impedance (never heard of someone using a Tube Screamer because of it's impedance), buy one Ibanez TS8 or TS9 pedal. Or get the UAD plugin. It's a fine plugin. Or get Cytomic The Screamer plugin, that's fire and HYPER acurate. Or get mixwave new Tube Screamer plugin. It's free as of now. Anyway, test things, man. They all have trials. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 5, 2024 8:40:11 GMT -6
Not sure many people are still operating a gen 1 Apollo, so that could be why no one has responded. I guess it would just depend on what kind of latency stats the FW or USB spec say. I tried the TS…it does something in the first spot…just different per se not necessarily better.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 5, 2024 8:41:16 GMT -6
I bought the Mixwave Centurion - the Klon clone. It’s pretty good!
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Post by Henry_Berg on Nov 5, 2024 8:52:55 GMT -6
Not sure many people are still operating a gen 1 Apollo, so that could be why no one has responded. I guess it would just depend on what kind of latency stats the FW or USB spec say. I tried the TS…it does something in the first spot…just different per se not necessarily better. John, I meant the X apollos Thunderbolt (with the new ones being Gen2 X). I own an x4 and an x8, but I am at the moment at some other city, and won't be able to try all for a month when I come back. I remember the X apollos had terrible roundtrip latency when not using DSP, unlike my previous Apogee, Steinberg, MOTU, interfaces, but I loved the DSP system and UA plugins so I switched to Apollos 4 years ago. I run mostly Logic and LUNA now. |
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Post by Dan on Nov 5, 2024 9:03:38 GMT -6
Lion, I think it's about as good as the old UAD Plexi. They just modeled different amps. Softube did a scuzzier super lead than them. UAD did a scuzzier super bass. The brown amp is super cool and saggy. I think the Softube Lemmy and Kerry King definitely have more balls though with the right irs. The UA ones are more pushed right off the bat from the gain staging and the irs are canned so if some dude died through a pedal, they're not really what you want. Also, underrated are the Waves PRS supermodels. You should check them up. The included pedals are irs are absolute dogshit though. They sound like Waves GTR 3 nonsense but the amp modeling is decent on the PRS ones.
I'm starting to like the Neural and Mercuriall marshalls less everytime I try them. The fizz is way off.
Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan… it’s all about hitting them right and processing the signal before it. I’m really liking the Softube Marshall Guv’nor into their 2203KK with beast mode off. It’s Gary Moore but bigger and cleaner. |
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Post by doubledog on Nov 5, 2024 9:22:27 GMT -6
Went to buy and now my $25 off coupon isn’t recognized, guess it was a bug a couple of days ago: oh well !  if you look closely, they now say "not good with any other offer" and "valid on purchase over $99" - so since everything is always on sale, the coupon is useless. Thanks for nothing UA. I kept wanting to use that $25 off in my cart but I can't... and for $25 I can get just about any plugin at PA, so why bother? I'm not going to spend $100 just so I can save $25. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 5, 2024 9:33:43 GMT -6
Not sure many people are still operating a gen 1 Apollo, so that could be why no one has responded. I guess it would just depend on what kind of latency stats the FW or USB spec say. I tried the TS…it does something in the first spot…just different per se not necessarily better. John, I meant the X apollos Thunderbolt (with the new ones being Gen2 X). I own an x4 and an x8, but I am at the moment at some other city, and won't be able to try all for a month when I come back. I remember the X apollos had terrible roundtrip latency when not using DSP, unlike my previous Apogee, Steinberg, MOTU, interfaces, but I loved the DSP system and UA plugins so I switched to Apollos 4 years ago. I run mostly Logic and LUNA now. I’m using it with an x6…and it’s completely fine. I can play at 128 buffers, but 64 was doable too. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 5, 2024 9:44:00 GMT -6
Went to buy and now my $25 off coupon isn’t recognized, guess it was a bug a couple of days ago: oh well ! if you look closely, they now say "not good with any other offer" and "valid on purchase over $99" - so since everything is always on sale, the coupon is useless. Thanks for nothing UA. I kept wanting to use that $25 off in my cart but I can't... and for $25 I can get just about any plugin at PA, so why bother? I'm not going to spend $100 just so I can save $25. Maybe contact CS and ask,, or maybe it just got complicated with 2-3 overlapping sales. Hmm, the amps are $150 each , available now for like $34 each: still a very good deal. |
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Post by fiddleman on Nov 7, 2024 14:37:07 GMT -6
dunno. pedals were a bust with poor qc, bluetooth, and drm. I think the pedals were an enormous hit... As a live sound engineer, I really hated when someone brought a UAD Ruby pedal to a gig. So muddy, and transients never sound right. Hearing the same thing as I test the Ruby plugin. I would love to be wrong, but there's no comparison to an actual amp recorded through an OX. The plugin is good approximation though... I think you guys have more experienced ears than me, but I question what you're hearing with these amp sims.... Better? Not close. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 7, 2024 14:45:24 GMT -6
I think the pedals were an enormous hit... As a live sound engineer, I really hated when someone brought a UAD Ruby pedal to a gig. So muddy, and transients never sound right. Hearing the same thing as I test the Ruby plugin. I would love to be wrong, but there's no comparison to an actual amp recorded through an OX. The plugin is good approximation though... I think you guys have more experienced ears than me, but I question what you're hearing with these amp sims.... Better? Not close.Yeah, guess we both question each other's ears. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 7, 2024 15:09:21 GMT -6
Well, people have their own expectations and then experiences, a real amp cranked but through an ox, is not a digital emulation , so should have more sonic balls. I think the plugs are very useful: just don’t get bogged down in the sound exactly like argument. I’m glad I bought them for like 1/20 the price of an ox! |
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Post by Dan on Nov 7, 2024 15:35:31 GMT -6
I think the pedals were an enormous hit... As a live sound engineer, I really hated when someone brought a UAD Ruby pedal to a gig. So muddy, and transients never sound right. Hearing the same thing as I test the Ruby plugin. I would love to be wrong, but there's no comparison to an actual amp recorded through an OX. The plugin is good approximation though... I think you guys have more experienced ears than me, but I question what you're hearing with these amp sims.... Better? Not close.gainstaging is weird on them. you must turn input gain way down when gainstaging for optimal noise. i imagine even weirder on the pedals. the irs are pretty processed and often multimiced and aligned for extra mud so if he wasn't playing into a power amp and cabinet, using it as a vox in a box pedal (there are several like the vox versions of the guvnor and shredmaster), that kind of thing gets weird live.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 7, 2024 15:51:49 GMT -6
Maybe I need to take a break…because I can’t understand someone hearing these and thinking they don’t sound good.
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Post by fiddleman on Nov 7, 2024 16:04:39 GMT -6
Thanks for the replies! I have bought many $$$ of gear based on the opinion of Johnkenn and others in this thread. As a long time reader, I am only now posting to question the opinion...the UAD plugins do sound great...but not realistically close based on my demos...
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 7, 2024 16:10:40 GMT -6
Thanks for the replies! I have bought many $$$ of gear based on the opinion of Johnkenn and others in this thread. As a long time reader, I am only now posting to question the opinion...the UAD plugins do sound great...but not realistically close based on my demos... I mean - ok. In my experience, they’re the most realistic sounding models of these amps available. But ymmv. |
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Post by phantom on Nov 7, 2024 20:28:24 GMT -6
Look, I have most of these amps. I have compared Lion and Dream with their real counterpart. Through the same IR, they are very close. I've seen comparisons online as well, I'll try to find them, just to ilustrate.
Edit: (also have in my mind that with these kind of videos, the capacity of the person to match settings is also in question - for example, I think I can get Dream and my DRRi to sound closer)
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Post by FM77 on Nov 8, 2024 7:56:45 GMT -6
Huh. Sold your AXE-FX @johnkenn ?
Speaking for myself as an avid tube amp user, the sim world spins and spits out new products weekly in the most fickle, over dramatic and sensationalized gear market, I cannot imagine a more relevant, reliable, stable, consistent and easy to recall piece of hardware to keep.
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 8, 2024 8:15:29 GMT -6
Look, I have most of these amps. I have compared Lion and Dream with their real counterpart. Through the same IR, they are very close. I've seen comparisons online as well, I'll try to find them, just to ilustrate. Edit: (also have in my mind that with these kind of videos, the capacity of the person to match settings is also in question - for example, I think I can get Dream and my DRRi to sound closer) I got the Dream 65 added to my Spark subscription. I like it and it’s useful on my laptop for sessions in my living room when I’m not in a studio mood - I think it has a lovely GUI. For me, compared to my Tone King Imperial mk2 head and cab (a blackface fender) driven into a Boss Waza Tube Amp Expander it does come within a country mile. I’ve compared the two (kinda unfair I realise, as ones $4,000 of boutique guitar hardware and the other a Spark subscription amp sim) and the Dream 65 doesn’t come close to my ears to the hardware - which sounds harmonically so much richer in tone, sustain and the way it sings. I do understand not everyone feels that way - and I can respect that - but there still a very few of us left that value what a great sounding tube amp can bring to a recording, especially when it’s miced up. |
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Post by phantom on Nov 8, 2024 8:20:13 GMT -6
Look, I have most of these amps. I have compared Lion and Dream with their real counterpart. Through the same IR, they are very close. I've seen comparisons online as well, I'll try to find them, just to ilustrate. Edit: (also have in my mind that with these kind of videos, the capacity of the person to match settings is also in question - for example, I think I can get Dream and my DRRi to sound closer) I got the Dream 65 added to my Spark subscription. I like it and it’s useful on my laptop for sessions in my living room when I’m not in a studio mood - I think it has a lovely GUI. For me, compared to my Tone King Imperial mk2 head and cab (a blackface fender) driven into a Boss Waza Tube Amp Expander it does come within a country mile. I’ve compared the two (kinda unfair I realise, as ones $4,000 of boutique guitar hardware and the other a Spark subscription amp sim) and the Dream 65 doesn’t come even close to the hardware - which sounds harmonically so much richer in tone, sustain and the way it sings. I do understand not everyone feels that way - and I can respect that - but there still a very few of us left that value what a great sounding tube amp can bring to a recording, especially when it’s miced up. Yeah, you said that before, and I still don't think I agree at all. Also, Dream is not emulating a Tone King Imperial, it's a Deluxe Reverb, so I have no idea why you think they need to sound the same. This is Dream compared against the amp it's emulating: |
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 8, 2024 8:31:10 GMT -6
I got the Dream 65 added to my Spark subscription. I like it and it’s useful on my laptop for sessions in my living room when I’m not in a studio mood - I think it has a lovely GUI. For me, compared to my Tone King Imperial mk2 head and cab (a blackface fender) driven into a Boss Waza Tube Amp Expander it does come within a country mile. I’ve compared the two (kinda unfair I realise, as ones $4,000 of boutique guitar hardware and the other a Spark subscription amp sim) and the Dream 65 doesn’t come even close to the hardware - which sounds harmonically so much richer in tone, sustain and the way it sings. I do understand not everyone feels that way - and I can respect that - but there still a very few of us left that value what a great sounding tube amp can bring to a recording, especially when it’s miced up. Yeah, you said that before, and I still don't think I agree at all. Also, Dream is not emulating a Tone King Imperial, it's a Deluxe Reverb, so I have no idea why you think they need to sound the same. This is Dream compared against the amp it's emulating: See, I said not everyone would agree with me Mark Bartel designed the TKI as a clone of a DR (not the lead channel of course) |
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Post by phantom on Nov 8, 2024 8:41:08 GMT -6
Yeah, you said that before, and I still don't think I agree at all. Also, Dream is not emulating a Tone King Imperial, it's a Deluxe Reverb, so I have no idea why you think they need to sound the same. This is Dream compared against the amp it's emulating: See, I said not everyone would agree with me Mark Bartel designed the TKI as a clone of a DR (not the lead channel of course) Still a clone and not the real thing. I've seen this a lot over the internet, but people need to remember that Friedman is not a Plexi. Matchless is not a Vox and Tone King is not a Fender. They are all interpretations of those sounds - maybe even better for some. The real Vox sound only exists within Vox amps, the same with the Plexis and the Fenders. So yeah, Tone King =/= Deluxe Reverb 65 |
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