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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 10, 2014 9:36:42 GMT -6
"Spotify’s response to Swift’s abrupt catalog retraction came with an air of sarcasm and the statistic claiming they pay “nearly 70 percent” of their revenue “back to the music community.” Unfortunately songwriters only receive around 10 percent of that revenue, and publishers can’t even negotiate a fair market royalty rate for their songs. They are set by the government through consent decrees created in the 1940s that tech companies are fighting to uphold."www.wired.com/2014/11/nmpa-taylor-swift-spotify/Taylor Swift is a trendsetter. From her transition from country to pop, to her honest lyrics, she has ushered in a golden age for singer-songwriter appreciation and market power. This week, she made another bold move—she pulled all of her music from Spotify. As the president of the trade association representing music publishers and songwriters like Swift, I was struck not only by the bravery of the move, but by the brazen reminder that creators have the right to control their work. Streaming models increasingly stack the deck against songwriters, as the songwriter Aloe Blacc eloquently explained in WIRED yesterday. Like Blacc, I believe Swift’s putting her foot down is a watershed moment in the music industry. David Israelite David Israelite is the President and CEO of the National Music Publishers’ Association (NMPA). Founded in 1917, NMPA is the trade association representing American music publishers and their songwriting partners. Swift appears to have been trending toward this move for some time. This summer she penned an op-ed about the intrinsic value of music and openly argued against the watering-down of its worth, saying, “Music is art, and art is important and rare. Important, rare things are valuable. Valuable things should be paid for.” Her passionate piece was the latest in an uproar within the music industry that is trying to wrap its head around the end of album and single sales. After a year of Beyonce and U2 both looking at new ways of releasing albums and not being able to crack the Platinum-selling ceiling of purchases higher than one million, Taylor Swift is poised to blow way past them and this unprecedented move will likely push that number even higher. The reason this is important is not because the industry wants Spotify, Pandora or the like to fail—the reality is quite the opposite. Swift’s decision is important because it shows that songwriters have the right to do what they want with their intellectual property. It is the streaming services who must court their creations, not the other way around. In a world of increasing entitlement on the part of digital companies, her choice was a wakeup call to those who expect an endless online music library at little to no cost, and forget that the ultimate price will be paid in the loss of new talent due to lack of incentive. As Blacc wrote, “If songwriters cannot afford to make music, who will?” STREAMING IS UNDOUBTEDLY THE WAVE OF THE FUTURE, AND WHEN STREAMING COMPANIES VALUE SONGWRITERS, THE SKY’S THE LIMIT. Equally critical, it should be a wakeup call to services like Pandora and Spotify who claim to give a large portion of their profits to artists, but in reality have not built business models that properly compensate creators. These services are banking on the general public becoming so accustomed to their services that creators can’t fight back without risking critical exposure, which amounts to a threat of either being blacklisted or accepting an artificially low rate. Swift is uniquely positioned to avoid this risk—she is after all arguably the biggest artist in the world—so her decision, whether it ends up being symbolic or the beginning of a seismic trend, should remind everyone that while streaming is becoming the norm, those songs weren’t magically delivered; they belong to someone. Her statement couldn’t have come at a more critical time. Industry forecasts show that digital download revenue is expected to drop by 39 percent through 2019 while streaming revenue will increase by 238 percent over the same period. Spotify’s response to Swift’s abrupt catalog retraction came with an air of sarcasm and the statistic claiming they pay “nearly 70 percent” of their revenue “back to the music community.” Unfortunately songwriters only receive around 10 percent of that revenue, and publishers can’t even negotiate a fair market royalty rate for their songs. They are set by the government through consent decrees created in the 1940s that tech companies are fighting to uphold. When it comes to streaming, Spotify isn’t the only offender. Consider, for perspective, that Pandora pays approximately 50 percent of its revenue to record labels and performing artists, on average, while paying only around 4 percent of that to songwriters. Desmond Child, who wrote Jon Bon Jovi’s massive hit “Livin on a Prayer,” was paid only $110.42 for over six million streams on Pandora. SONGWRITERS HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO WHAT THEY WANT WITH THEIR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. IT IS THE STREAMING SERVICES WHO MUST COURT THEIR CREATIONS, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. While Taylor Swift is not scratching by, many of her songwriting colleagues are. The songwriting community in Nashville that cultivated her talent and introduced her to the world she would one day dominate is in dire need of people like her who will stand up to the big streaming tech giants and remind them that great songs are priceless, and that’s exactly why songwriters should be paid more than pennies for them. Ultimately, Ms. Swift isn’t the first person to pull their repertoire from streaming services. She follows an impressive line of acts including The Black Keys and Thom Yorke. I am hopeful that her notoriety will cause fans, industry executives and streaming services to remember that if you use someone for too long, they’re likely to leave. Streaming is undoubtedly the wave of the future, and when streaming companies value songwriters, the sky’s the limit. It’s time they start collaborating with the music creators they depend on, otherwise they may never, ever, ever get back together.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Nov 10, 2014 11:24:29 GMT -6
If my math is right, 6 million spins on traditional radio would yield a pay day of 140k for a nber one like Living On A Prayer as opposed to 110 bucks.
Something is defiantly wrong with this picture.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 10, 2014 12:39:21 GMT -6
No - that's off. (Pop pays about twice as much as Country too because there are more radio stations in bigger markets)...I had a No. 2 in Country and it only had about 150,000 radio spins after a year and it paid about twice that amount. I would imagine a song like LOAP - with 6 Million Radio Spins would pay in the millions.
Here's why... When a radio station plays a song, they have a formula for how many people are listening at that time, in that market. So - if it gets played in say - Nashville at noon, on WSIX - they might say 100,000 people are listening at one time. So, the song gets paid for 100,000 impressions. Multiply that by how many times it gets played in a day across all stations and times the number of people listening.
So - .000113 x number of impressions. (BTW - no one will say how much each impression actually is worth...because the truth of the matter is the PRO's pay bigger songwriters more to keep them at the PRO...and the streamers don't want you to know because it's embarrassing.)
Now - SUPPOSEDLY one stream/impression on Spotify is paid the exact same as one spin/impression on radio. So, if that's the case, then why is LOAP on getting $112 for 6 million impressions? It doesn't make sense. Also - Lady Antebellum's "Need You Now" had 72 Million streams/impressions on internet radio and the writers split $6000.
Take that instance of airplay in Nashville: song played at noon in Nashville with listening audience of 100k people. It equals 100,000 impressions .000113 x 100,000 = $11.30 One radio spin in Nashville at noon made $11.30 Then, that song is played multiple times a day on 2000 radio stations in markets waaaay bigger than Nashville. And a number 1 song can last as long as 8 months now.
One stream on Pandora at noon by one person = .000113 cents. .000113 x 6,000,000 streams = $680
The truth of the matter is that Songwriters have negotiated that LOW rate for a single spin with RADIO because they know there will be a multiple (one spin = many thousand impressions). We are paid by the impression, not the spin. There is NOT a multiple with streaming and therefore streaming pays THOUSANDS of times less than radio.
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Post by drbill on Nov 10, 2014 15:08:47 GMT -6
No - that's off. (Pop pays about twice as much as Country too because there are more radio stations in bigger markets)...I had a No. 2 in Country and it only had about 150,000 radio spins after a year and it paid about twice that amount. I would imagine a song like LOAP - with 6 Million Radio Spins would pay in the millions. Here's why... When a radio station plays a song, they have a formula for how many people are listening at that time, in that market. So - if it gets played in say - Nashville at noon, on WSIX - they might say 100,000 people are listening at one time. So, the song gets paid for 100,000 impressions. Multiply that by how many times it gets played in a day across all stations and times the number of people listening. So - .000113 x number of impressions. (BTW - no one will say how much each impression actually is worth...because the truth of the matter is the PRO's pay bigger songwriters more to keep them at the PRO...and the streamers don't want you to know because it's embarrassing.) Now - SUPPOSEDLY one stream/impression on Spotify is paid the exact same as one spin/impression on radio. So, if that's the case, then why is LOAP on getting $112 for 6 million impressions? It doesn't make sense. Also - Lady Antebellum's "Need You Now" had 72 Million streams/impressions on internet radio and the writers split $6000. Take that instance of airplay in Nashville: song played at noon in Nashville with listening audience of 100k people. It equals 100,000 impressions .000113 x 100,000 = $11.30 One radio spin in Nashville at noon made $11.30 Then, that song is played multiple times a day on 2000 radio stations in markets waaaay bigger than Nashville. And a number 1 song can last as long as 8 months now. One stream on Pandora at noon by one person = .000113 cents. .000113 x 6,000,000 streams = $680 The truth of the matter is that Songwriters have negotiated that LOW rate for a single spin with RADIO because they know there will be a multiple (one spin = many thousand impressions). We are paid by the impression, not the spin. There is NOT a multiple with streaming and therefore streaming pays THOUSANDS of times less than radio. Nice observations John. Well said. Especially the last sentence. The math is complex, but when you get down to it.....alarming as you have pointed out.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
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Post by ericn on Nov 10, 2014 15:27:48 GMT -6
I feel for you guys John, they are built on the buisness model of; We can't do anything without you, are key to our success BUT our model calls for YOU to pay for our Bentley buy driving a Police auction Crown Vic.
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Post by wiz on Nov 10, 2014 16:49:16 GMT -6
startling... and thanks john for the explanation
can Bono save us?
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 10, 2014 18:00:36 GMT -6
No - that's off. (Pop pays about twice as much as Country too because there are more radio stations in bigger markets)...I had a No. 2 in Country and it only had about 150,000 radio spins after a year and it paid about twice that amount. I would imagine a song like LOAP - with 6 Million Radio Spins would pay in the millions. Here's why... When a radio station plays a song, they have a formula for how many people are listening at that time, in that market. So - if it gets played in say - Nashville at noon, on WSIX - they might say 100,000 people are listening at one time. So, the song gets paid for 100,000 impressions. Multiply that by how many times it gets played in a day across all stations and times the number of people listening. So - .000113 x number of impressions. (BTW - no one will say how much each impression actually is worth...because the truth of the matter is the PRO's pay bigger songwriters more to keep them at the PRO...and the streamers don't want you to know because it's embarrassing.) Now - SUPPOSEDLY one stream/impression on Spotify is paid the exact same as one spin/impression on radio. So, if that's the case, then why is LOAP on getting $112 for 6 million impressions? It doesn't make sense. Also - Lady Antebellum's "Need You Now" had 72 Million streams/impressions on internet radio and the writers split $6000. Take that instance of airplay in Nashville: song played at noon in Nashville with listening audience of 100k people. It equals 100,000 impressions .000113 x 100,000 = $11.30 One radio spin in Nashville at noon made $11.30 Then, that song is played multiple times a day on 2000 radio stations in markets waaaay bigger than Nashville. And a number 1 song can last as long as 8 months now. One stream on Pandora at noon by one person = .000113 cents. .000113 x 6,000,000 streams = $680 The truth of the matter is that Songwriters have negotiated that LOW rate for a single spin with RADIO because they know there will be a multiple (one spin = many thousand impressions). We are paid by the impression, not the spin. There is NOT a multiple with streaming and therefore streaming pays THOUSANDS of times less than radio. Nice observations John. Well said. Especially the last sentence. The math is complex, but when you get down to it.....alarming as you have pointed out. I'm sure I'm wrong on some of the specifics, but think that's why there's such a big gap.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 10, 2014 18:02:44 GMT -6
startling... and thanks john for the explanation can Bono save us? cheers Wiz Did he ever reveal what his brilliant plan was? I have an idea...enforce laws and allow songwriters to at peat make minimum wage.
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Post by donr on Nov 10, 2014 20:54:51 GMT -6
Not sure what 1940's decree the streaming services pay off of. What streaming was envisioned in the 1940's?
On terrestrial radio, the artist and record company get nothing. Only the publisher (and then the author/composer) get paid. And not bad, on a hit record. The record companies made money on selling the disks. So did the artists, in theory. But that's another story. The record companies bribed DJ's for airplay, not for earnings on airplay, but to sell disks. It was imperfect then, but it was the way it was, and it basically functioned.
Now no one buys records, or downloads, and everybody streams. At least that's the way it's headed. So everybody needs to get paid. Writers, artists, and 'record companies,' which are now pretty much promotional outfits for the artists (if they're competent) and not much more.
How does that work? I'm not sure. The REAL value of a sound recording in the digital/internet age has fallen compared to historical levels. We here all know it needs to retain (regain?) a certain level of value if the quality of popular music as we've known it is to be possibly maintained. The quality of top pop recordings is better now than it ever was, taste and fashion considerations aside. But there's a lingering 'buggy whip' vibe I sense about the whole pop music thing, which I may be totally wrong about. How devoted are young people to current pop music? It was cutting edge culture when I was young, even as I was being manipulated by what I got to hear as pop on the radio. Everything else media-wise was square in comparison. Not sure it's the same for today's young consumers of hip.
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Post by jeromemason on Nov 10, 2014 21:41:44 GMT -6
My views have changed on this somewhat. I still do think that the future is Spotify or something like it. With that said, I don't like seeing friends of mine JK included, getting shammed by it. I used it a lot, even for referencing when mixing, jogging, even the wife was using the hell out of it and we pay for it, but at some point what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong, as cliche as that may sound it's very true.
They have to fix the payout system, they know it's out of date and they are working of technicalities, and reading Spotify's response just resonates that of a prick, and a sense of arrogance that I do not like. For a few months I've only been buying off of HDtracks.com and iTunes, I still pay the monthly bill and every so often if I need a quick listen I'll pull something up but I'm not using it as playlists or casual playback anymore. Honestly the only reason I pay for it is so that when I do want to quickly listen it's the higher bit rate. I'd gladly pay twice what I'm paying per month if they would make it fair as do I think a majority of their users, but the thing is, they don't have to, they are making tons of cash and doing nothing but gas-lighting the public with smoke and mirrors. I've seen that same kind of arrogance before, it was Napster, and they believed they were to large to fail and look where it got them. If Spotify want's to be the one who is THE STREAMING service they have to fix it, plain and simple. This whole thing is going to snowball on them, and it'll happen really fast too. If they're smart, they'll look to the past to determine their futures.
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Post by jeromemason on Nov 10, 2014 22:14:27 GMT -6
I just saw this as well, and being someone that trades stocks I never even thought about putting two and two together on this. IPO's on anything virtual usually are big money, we're basically back to the tech bubble when any sort of those companies were a sure winner on an IPO. I made an assload of money on Google's IPO, it paid for a 2 week cruise to the virgin Islands for my wife and I. Pretty good read:
"This entire push on Spotify is not to save the music business, or give you a platform to be discovered, or give you hope. It is 100% an IPO play, nothing more. And in that IPO play, the labels, name artists, managers, etc., all have the same end game and that is to cash out on the IPO. “The three major labels – Universal, Warners, Sony, have an 18 per cent share of Spotify’s stock. Merlin, the licensing agency backed by the independent sector, also took an equity stake. You better believe Quincy Jones has equity. Go back to 2012 and see about his app launch on Spotify. I’m sure Bono does, as well and many others. I know Bieber does.” The three major labels – Universal, Warners, Sony, have an 18 per cent share of Spotify’s stock. Merlin, the licensing agency backed by the independent sector, also took an equity stake.
The end game here is not to fix the music business, it is to cash out on the IPO. FOR THOSE WHO DON’T UNDERSTAND IPOS: INITIAL PUBLIC OFFERING (IPO) OR STOCK MARKET LAUNCH IS A TYPE OF PUBLIC OFFERING IN WHICH SHARES OF STOCK IN A COMPANY USUALLY ARE SOLD TO INSTITUTIONAL INVESTORS (THAT PRICE THE COMPANY RECEIVES FROM THE INSTITUTIONAL INVESTORS IS THE IPO PRICE) THAT IN TURN SELL TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, ON A SECURITIES EXCHANGE, FOR THE FIRST TIME. THROUGH THIS PROCESS, A PRIVATE COMPANY TRANSFORMS INTO A PUBLIC COMPANY. INITIAL PUBLIC OFFERINGS ARE USED BY COMPANIES TO RAISE EXPANSION CAPITAL, TO POSSIBLY MONETIZE THE INVESTMENTS OF EARLY PRIVATE INVESTORS, AND TO BECOME PUBLICLY TRADED ENTERPRISES.
A COMPANY SELLING SHARES IS NEVER REQUIRED TO REPAY THE CAPITAL TO ITS PUBLIC INVESTORS. AFTER THE IPO, WHEN SHARES TRADE FREELY IN THE OPEN MARKET, MONEY PASSES BETWEEN PUBLIC INVESTORS.”
Being transparent, I am heavily invested in Alibaba. The recent IPO of the Chinese Internet giant was the largest in history, raising over 24 billion dollars on the first day of the IPO. The IPO number was $68.00 per share. The IPO opened to the public at $92.70, it is currently trading at $114.56 per share. The original people who had equity in Alibaba, like Yahoo and Softbank, made billions of dollars the day of the IPO. In fact, the IPO made Jack Ma the richest man in China and Masayoshi Son the richest man in Japan, on the same day.
You are being lied to, lead, and fooled, by the labels, artists, and everyone else who supports Spotify. Bono made a fortune in the Facebook IPO, but Facebook is not part of the music business. The only way the Spotify equity holders can make their fortune is to get all of you to believe the hype, believe it’s the answer. They need you to buy into it so they can run an IPO and cash out. It’s all a game and all a lie.
I hate to admit this, but it’s true. When we trade stocks, we don’t care about the health of the company, the future of the company, we care about one thing, the profit on moving around shares. It’s an evil game, and yes I play it, but my family’s future is more important to me than anything else. To be honest, if I could take a pre IPO equity position in Spotify, I would. If I could get “friends & family” pre IPO shares, I would.
It’s instant money, instant profit. You’re being fooled and I really wish you would pass this information around. Spotify will get it’s IPO eventually, and everyone with equity will cash out big. You will still be left with a decaying music business."
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 10, 2014 23:46:57 GMT -6
Not sure what 1940's decree the streaming services pay off of. What streaming was envisioned in the 1940's? . ASCAP was formed in 1914 through the efforts of composer Victor Herbert and attorney Nathan Burkan to collectively administer the public performance rights of songwriters and composers. ASCAP would clash with radio broadcasters during the coming decades over compensation for public performance of music over the airwaves. In 1939, partially in response to a rate increase by ASCAP, the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) created BMI as a competing performing rights organization. (Gee, do you think they had a vested interest in keeping rates low?) Pressured by the NAB, the US Justice Department sued ASCAP and BMI in 1940, alleging violations of the Sherman Antitrust Act. As a result, both agencies entered into a consent decree with the government. ASCAP’s consent decree was amended in 1950, establishing the authority of a district court to act as a “rate court” to settle disputes over rates when ASCAP and licensees could not reach agreement. The ASCAP decree was amended again in 1960 and 2001. BMI was the subject of a second suit by the US in 1964, with a new consent decree in 1966, amended in 1994 to include a similar “rate court” provision. What this means is that ASCAP cannot set different rates for their songs for different mediums. When they consent to give a license for fair usage of a song, they have to consent to give that same rate to EVERYONE. This means that unlike almost every other good and service in the free world, songs are not subject to what the market will bear. It is decided by a "rate court"....or one fucking judge. They decided that rate in 1940 and amended it the last time in 2001. BEFORE IPODS WERE INVENTED. So, Spotify and Pandora want to hold songwriters HOSTAGE based on a law written in 1940 and amended before their technology was invented. How does this even begin to sound fair in the United States of America?
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 10, 2014 23:52:56 GMT -6
I just saw this as well, and being someone that trades stocks I never even thought about putting two and two together on this. IPO's on anything virtual usually are big money, we're basically back to the tech bubble when any sort of those companies were a sure winner on an IPO. I made an assload of money on Google's IPO, it paid for a 2 week cruise to the virgin Islands for my wife and I. Pretty good read: "This entire push on Spotify is not to save the music business, or give you a platform to be discovered, or give you hope. It is 100% an IPO play, nothing more. And in that IPO play, the labels, name artists, managers, etc., all have the same end game and that is to cash out on the IPO. “The three major labels – Universal, Warners, Sony, have an 18 per cent share of Spotify’s stock. Merlin, the licensing agency backed by the independent sector, also took an equity stake. You better believe Quincy Jones has equity. Go back to 2012 and see about his app launch on Spotify. I’m sure Bono does, as well and many others. I know Bieber does.” The three major labels – Universal, Warners, Sony, have an 18 per cent share of Spotify’s stock. Merlin, the licensing agency backed by the independent sector, also took an equity stake. The end game here is not to fix the music business, it is to cash out on the IPO. FOR THOSE WHO DON’T UNDERSTAND IPOS: INITIAL PUBLIC OFFERING (IPO) OR STOCK MARKET LAUNCH IS A TYPE OF PUBLIC OFFERING IN WHICH SHARES OF STOCK IN A COMPANY USUALLY ARE SOLD TO INSTITUTIONAL INVESTORS (THAT PRICE THE COMPANY RECEIVES FROM THE INSTITUTIONAL INVESTORS IS THE IPO PRICE) THAT IN TURN SELL TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, ON A SECURITIES EXCHANGE, FOR THE FIRST TIME. THROUGH THIS PROCESS, A PRIVATE COMPANY TRANSFORMS INTO A PUBLIC COMPANY. INITIAL PUBLIC OFFERINGS ARE USED BY COMPANIES TO RAISE EXPANSION CAPITAL, TO POSSIBLY MONETIZE THE INVESTMENTS OF EARLY PRIVATE INVESTORS, AND TO BECOME PUBLICLY TRADED ENTERPRISES. A COMPANY SELLING SHARES IS NEVER REQUIRED TO REPAY THE CAPITAL TO ITS PUBLIC INVESTORS. AFTER THE IPO, WHEN SHARES TRADE FREELY IN THE OPEN MARKET, MONEY PASSES BETWEEN PUBLIC INVESTORS.” Being transparent, I am heavily invested in Alibaba. The recent IPO of the Chinese Internet giant was the largest in history, raising over 24 billion dollars on the first day of the IPO. The IPO number was $68.00 per share. The IPO opened to the public at $92.70, it is currently trading at $114.56 per share. The original people who had equity in Alibaba, like Yahoo and Softbank, made billions of dollars the day of the IPO. In fact, the IPO made Jack Ma the richest man in China and Masayoshi Son the richest man in Japan, on the same day. You are being lied to, lead, and fooled, by the labels, artists, and everyone else who supports Spotify. Bono made a fortune in the Facebook IPO, but Facebook is not part of the music business. The only way the Spotify equity holders can make their fortune is to get all of you to believe the hype, believe it’s the answer. They need you to buy into it so they can run an IPO and cash out. It’s all a game and all a lie. I hate to admit this, but it’s true. When we trade stocks, we don’t care about the health of the company, the future of the company, we care about one thing, the profit on moving around shares. It’s an evil game, and yes I play it, but my family’s future is more important to me than anything else. To be honest, if I could take a pre IPO equity position in Spotify, I would. If I could get “friends & family” pre IPO shares, I would. It’s instant money, instant profit. You’re being fooled and I really wish you would pass this information around. Spotify will get it’s IPO eventually, and everyone with equity will cash out big. You will still be left with a decaying music business." I had heard this...that Spotify entrenched itself in America by giving labels and the power brokers equity in the business. So, basically it's insider trading. The people that supposedly should be fighting against Spotify own a stake in it.
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Post by jeromemason on Nov 11, 2014 1:47:13 GMT -6
It's a really F'd up deal. My previous business partner was lobbying congress for two years trying to fix this and he came back and basically said there's so many hands in the cookie jar it's impossible to fix. He actually made the statement that they only people that would be able to fix this would be the artist, and then by them creating enough of a buzz finally a new law would have to be put into place. Maybe we are seeing that now, maybe after the IPO we'll see that, but I can tell you Spotify is not far off from going public, everything they are doing and saying is exactly what a company does before it hits the market. Which would probably explain why they are being so greedy and not allowing the bottom line to look unhealthy. After the cash injection from investors I have a feeling that they will then start to play ball, until that happens they are going to keep those books looking healthy as a horse.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 11, 2014 8:51:59 GMT -6
After the cash injection, they will have all the leverage. And will start giving more popular artists kickbacks to allow them to play their music. In the meantime - because the PRO's are hamstrung by this fucked up anti-trust law from 1940 that says they have to make ONE price and then offer it to everyone - Sony has decided to pull ALL of their music from the PRO's and do it in house. I think it's only for the internet side, not radio....but it's a HUGE blow to the PRO's. The PRO's (ASCAP, SESAC, BMI) are the ONLY organizations that represent the best interest of the songwriters. The major publishers - Sony, Universal, Warner, etc. - are NOT restricted from making separate deals with Spotify, Pandora, etc...and they can leverage their bigger artists to be able to make more per stream. Currently, the Songwriter's Equity Act has been introduced by Congress. It would allow the PRO's to negotiate each license they grant (like any other company)...but how long will that take? The government ship is like turning the Titanic in mud.
Now, anyone that thinks publishers have the best interest of the songwriters in mind should go take a look at any current deal they're offering. The whole thing is so enormously fucked up, it's beyond depressing.
Oh - and Jerome...isn't giving the people that are opposed to your existence stock in your company and then whispering that there will be an IPO soon both bribery and insider trading?
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Post by mobeach on Nov 11, 2014 11:13:29 GMT -6
"The reason this is important is not because the industry wants Spotify, Pandora or the like to fail—the reality is quite the opposite. Swift’s decision is important because it shows that songwriters have the right to do what they want with their intellectual property. It is the streaming services who must court their creations, not the other way around."
I hope they do! Let's go back to CD's
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Post by jeromemason on Nov 11, 2014 23:02:02 GMT -6
Oh - and Jerome...isn't giving the people that are opposed to your existence stock in your company and then whispering that there will be an IPO soon both bribery and insider trading? Well, kind of, but unfortunately it's legal. I'll give an example. Facebook, shares were privately sold or granted to those who either had shit loads of money, or could offer the company a service. So, basically Spotify has sold shares to those that are listed in that article, now, for what reason we all know, but if you think Spotify or Justin Bieber are going to say why you're nuts. Here's the absolute, they ALL know that a company that is growing as rapidly as Spotify and who also has a healthy bottom line (by fucking everyone in the business with a corn cob) will eventually go public. There users are in the millions, with millions that are paid subscribers, so it's no secret that they'll go public. But the kicker is that the SEC can't just assume Spotify will go public, so basically they can do whatever the hell they want as long as nothing is worded on paper that could be an SEC violation, and I can assure you that there is nothing that is damning on paper. In the court of public opinion they are all guilty, but, innocent in the eyes of the law. I wish I knew how many shares some of these industry insiders have, I'm sure it's enough to overcome any amount of loss they are sustaining from lost revenue in album sales, I mean, we are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars. The IPO will be in the billions, it will be massive, and the only time we'll know who had what is when they go public and those private equity holders sell their shares, then we'll know who all was involved. Sadly, nothing is illegal, it's all perfectly legit, and the way that our country is today it's becoming the norm. Everything is about splintered up shares of stock, or the % of the company they represent. What's really fucked up, is that 1 share of spotify that is currently in the private float could be equivalent to 100,000 shares of the common stock they will issue when the company does go public. So, right now it would do little good to know how many shares each person owns, hell they could only list they own 10 shares, but it might be equivalent to 1,000,000 shares of common stock that would be valued probably somewhere between $45-$75 on the open. Most likely that will jump about +$40 a share and well, you do the math. This is all unknown, I'm just throwing numbers, I have no idea what stake each one holds, but I would imagine they'll be handsomely rewarded for their "early investment." Wall Street knows that streaming is the future of music, they also know that Spotify is living off an archaic technicality and that until the law is changed their stock will be worth a lot of money. The only way to stop this is for the artist like Taylor to pull their catalogs off the streaming sites because once Wall Street gets involved you can pretty much kiss the chance of changing legislation goodbye. The worst thing that could happen in the music business is for Wall Street to be inside the distribution of music, if that happens, the game is up.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Nov 12, 2014 10:33:36 GMT -6
Looks like there may be a great exodus from Spotify coming. Taylor Swift pulled her music and it seems many in country music are following their lead. Pull your music JK!!!
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Post by levon on Nov 13, 2014 3:26:34 GMT -6
I can proudly say that my music is not on Spotify... or any other outlet for that matter, ahem... because, who cares?
This is truly a f'd up business in a f'd up world and the frustrating thing is that feeling of helplessness. But things will change, although we might not see it in our time.
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 13, 2014 13:03:48 GMT -6
I can proudly say that my music is not on Spotify... or any other outlet for that matter, ahem... because, who cares?
This is truly a f'd up business in a f'd up world and the frustrating thing is that feeling of helplessness. But things will change, although we might not see it in our time.
this is sad to read, but mostly true, you are VERY talented my friend, and always remember that most people are completely fucking stupid! lol, and wouldn't recognize talent if it came up and punched their whole fucking faces in 8) That said, i wish people would be what they want to see, i try my damndest to do that, and the day you see me enter my hard earned into the NYSE( AKA the criminal cesspool pyramid scheme that reaps its rewards by ruining grandma), is the day i fucking die! I'm all about fair pay for a fair work day, it indeed matters what we do, and how we make our money for those of us with souls, and IF there is something to answer for on the other side of this life?? i want to make damn sure i'm standing in the right line.
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Post by swurveman on Nov 13, 2014 13:59:57 GMT -6
I can proudly say that my music is not on Spotify... or any other outlet for that matter, ahem... because, who cares?
This is truly a f'd up business in a f'd up world and the frustrating thing is that feeling of helplessness. But things will change, although we might not see it in our time.
I have a theory. Call me a crazy, but.... Here it is: As the US rapidly became an oligarchy with a second tier of relatively mildly wealthy people, it became necessary to give the bottom 50%- who have little hope of ever accumulating wealth- free entertainment. That's why there will never be a crackdown on Pirate Bay or any other theft based entertainment provider. Give the 50% (that's 158 million people) free entertainment, just enough food and financial relief when necessary and cheap intoxicants and you keep them pacified. Take away the daily pacification and you have a real danger to the existing order.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 13, 2014 15:30:42 GMT -6
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Post by M57 on Nov 13, 2014 19:48:17 GMT -6
This should probably be another thread, but the whole idea of musicians being paid to record music is an experiment that's not even 100 years old ..and for most of that time the law has been two steps behind the technology; the model for compensating musicians has been contested from within and without the industry. 100 years ago, musicians made money by playing live - to those who could afford the time to come listen to you. Composers made money selling sheet music, and they had to peddle their wares ..on tin-pan alley. If you wanted to hear a song, you bought the sheet music and brought it home to your (or your neighbor's) piano where everyone sat around and sang. In a sense, everyone was a musician. Now, music consumers don't have to know how to play to enjoy music. Now musicians expect to be able to make money and never have step foot out of their house, much less onto a stage. Now, most song writers don't read music, much less notate what they write, and why should they? Talk about a paradigm shift!
The percentage of very good musicians who can't make a decent living as musicians ..right down to those who play for sheer love of music, is well north of 99%. With a number like that, and given how easy it is to disseminate the stuff, it should come as no surprise that most people believe that music should be free. Heck, I'll bet that recording quality aside, most of you who contribute or lurk on these forums probably think that most of the music 'in the money' (at top of the charts) is crap anyway. There's a ton of 'home' recordings by bands and individuals out there on soundcloud, etc. that I'd rather listen to. And the jazz musicians I'd prefer to listen to make their money on the road, right? They're not making it from CD sales or streaming.
And as for the process: A quality recording set-up is becoming more and more affordable. Slap some foam on a few walls and a single person can create recordings that in many ways are better than recordings of 40 years ago. E-mail your mixes in for automated mastering may seem a bit of a joke now, but do you really think it's not going to get quite a bit better in just the next 10 years? In just the last 10, every imaginable piece of vintage equipment has been emulated so well and is so easily installed - what's the next logical step? I'm just stream of consciousness rambling these thoughts but it seems to me that I'm coming to the conclusion that the mechanical end of music is in for even more of a shake-up in the next 10-20 years, and not necessarily in a direction that means more and/or better jobs for musicians/engineers.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 14, 2014 14:34:27 GMT -6
Looks like there may be a great exodus from Spotify coming. Taylor Swift pulled her music and it seems many in country music are following their lead. Pull your music JK!!! I think that has to come from the label. Also - that's the publisher's decision, I don't have the administrative rights to do it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 14, 2014 14:37:53 GMT -6
I can proudly say that my music is not on Spotify... or any other outlet for that matter, ahem... because, who cares?
This is truly a f'd up business in a f'd up world and the frustrating thing is that feeling of helplessness. But things will change, although we might not see it in our time.
I have a theory. Call me a crazy, but.... Here it is: As the US rapidly became an oligarchy with a second tier of relatively mildly wealthy people, it became necessary to give the bottom 50%- who have little hope of ever accumulating wealth- free entertainment. That's why there will never be a crackdown on Pirate Bay or any other theft based entertainment provider. Give the 50% (that's 158 million people) free entertainment, just enough food and financial relief when necessary and cheap intoxicants and you keep them pacified. Take away the daily pacification and you have a real danger to the existing order. Well...that's a grand conspiracy. And completely ludicrous. I don't think people under the poverty level in Mississippi are being mind controlled by the government through Spotify. Just my humble opinion. I think the problem is more akin to people under the poverty level spending $200 a month on their cell phones and then depending on the rest of us to pay for their food and healthcare...and then not paying a single federal tax. THAT'S what's wrong with this country.
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