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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 22, 2014 10:23:39 GMT -6
So - I'm finally sick of dealing with intonation issues on my cheap electric guitars... Are there any good tutorials on set up? My Jazzmaster is the one that's giving me issues...I guess I should just buy a Mastery Bridge and be done with it...but the MB costs half as much as my Squier Jazzmaster
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Post by matt on Feb 22, 2014 11:11:05 GMT -6
So - I'm finally sick of dealing with intonation issues on my cheap electric guitars... Are there any good tutorials on set up? My Jazzmaster is the one that's giving me issues...I guess I should just buy a Mastery Bridge and be done with it...but the MB costs half as much as my Squier Jazzmaster I use my electronic tuner and intonate by matching octaves at the 5th and 17th fret across all strings. First read about this method from Peterson. Seems to work nicely. It particularly seems to true up 1st position chords like C, G, etc. When I do a careful job, I can take the fretted notes of an open C, run them up an octave, and I am still in tune to the open G and E. This technique assumes that you have individual string saddles to adjust.
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Post by svart on Feb 22, 2014 11:14:05 GMT -6
Get your physical setup right first. Action height, neck bend, etc. Then move the bridge adjusters back and forth to match the open string note with the note at the 12th fret. Done.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 22, 2014 12:15:51 GMT -6
Harmonics or fretted?
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Post by winetree on Feb 22, 2014 12:41:32 GMT -6
FRETTED. Technical: The distance between the 12th fret and the nut should be the same as the distance between the 12th fret and the bridge. I use a strobe tuner it's more accurate than the guitar tuners. Once the intonation is set you can use harmonics to tune the guitar.
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Post by matt on Feb 22, 2014 16:37:58 GMT -6
From the Peterson site:
Intonate Your Guitar
So by now you have looked over your guitar and made sure that everything is in good working order, and it is time to get your instrument intonated. Before intonating your guitar, there are a few guidelines and general good practices that you should keep in mind. Review the Intonation Introduction page for some tips that will keep your instrument in good working order. Keep in mind that you should ALWAYS change the strings on your guitar before doing your final intonation.
Standard Intonation Procedure After deciding on string gauge, setting string height (nut & bridge), neck relief — factors that will later affect the guitars intonation considerably — the individual string lengths need to be adjusted. For this task, use Equal temperament (EQU) in the StroboStomp’s TMPR menu. Lower the pickups away from the strings to avoid "doubling" and electromagnetic pull. Lay the guitar flat on a bench to adjust it, but always check the intonation with the instrument in the playing position, as the readings will be visibly (and later audibly) different. You should always aim to freeze or "cage" the image on your Peterson Strobe Tuner display, the less movement the more accurate the results. Where setting the intonation is concerned, an often-used technique is the 12th fret & flageolet comparison method. In this method, the open string is first tuned... Then the open string (you can also use the flageolet tone or "harmonic" over the 12th fret) is compared to the string fretted at the 12th fret.. ...saddle position is carefully adjusted as follows: If the fretted note is flat compared to the open string or flageolet tone, move the bridge saddle forward to shorten the string (turn the saddle screw counter-clockwise)... If the fretted note is sharp compared to the open string or flageolet tone, move the bridge saddle back to lengthen the string (turn the saddle screw clockwise)... Always re-tune the open string after adjusting the saddle position before re-checking the result... ...and check the string fretted on the 12th fret again... Adjust until both fretted note and open string (or flageolet tone) are identical in pitch.
While this is a common system, it is not always the most satisfactory.
One popular alternative is to adjust each string so that it is in tune at two points an octave apart from each other on the fret board using a strobe tuner. Using the 5th and 17th fret as an example:Tune a string at the 5th fret. Check the string at the 17th. If sharp, move the saddle back, thus lengthening the string (turn the saddle screw clockwise). If flat, shorten the string by moving the saddle forward (turn the saddle screw counter-clockwise). Always re-tune the open string after adjusting the saddle position before re-checking the result. Remember to fret the string using the pressure that you would normally apply while playing. Keep repeating this process until each string is in tune as much as possible at both the 5th and 17th frets. This method takes time, and has to be repeated if you change string gauges, but if properly executed, yields very satisfactory results. Now, before you play music with a lot of 5ths on your guitar (e.g. power chords), tune the guitar using the GTR, P5 or G5 setting , depending on which model of strobe tuner you own, otherwise use the EQU (default) setting to tune your guitar.
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Post by jazznoise on Feb 22, 2014 20:20:45 GMT -6
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 22, 2014 20:25:35 GMT -6
Sounds like the standard way of doing it to me..... I usually make sure it's all in tune and the open string is in line with the 12th. From there I will go to my most used root notes and if there is any sharp or flatness in those I'll fine adjust until they are right, then make sure I'm still in tune and the 12th is still in tune and usually that means the whole guitar is pretty solid. That's just my way of doing it.
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Post by mobeach on Feb 23, 2014 11:43:14 GMT -6
I double check using both.
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Post by popmann on Feb 24, 2014 9:42:15 GMT -6
You need a strobe to do intonation work, IME.
This all doesn't fix poor intonation of cheap guitars. Just the set up. A guitars intonation is about fretwork and the consistency. All you're doing is setting the open strings's intonation (and you should-don't get me wrong)...and sometimes that IS all it takes....here's hoping it is.
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Post by matt on Feb 24, 2014 10:03:48 GMT -6
I have always been a little disappointed by the open/12th fret method. That's why I am a fan of the 5th/17th fret octave approach. I think it has something to do with fretting both notes - the end result always seems to be a bit better in my experience. Sometimes, I have been amazed at just how far a saddle has to be moved to true-up the two notes. Many guitars leave the factory effectively uncalibrated.
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Post by sistercities on Apr 2, 2014 21:33:10 GMT -6
Any tuners in particular to recommend for studio use and setups? I have a handful of guitars that need attention but feel the Boss pedal tuner isn't the one for the job.
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Post by popmann on Apr 6, 2014 13:08:10 GMT -6
I've been using an old Peterson analog strobe I was given from the studio I worked in when it closed. Literally "do you want that--no one's gonna want that bulk old thing...you can buy a tune that fits in your pocket now"...ha. I've really never done in on anything else. I tried on a digital Peterson a few years ago, and it SO paled, I simply sold it. It was part of an estate sale I ran...I liked that it had presets and such for Feiten and various sweetened tunings, so theoretically I wouldn't have to do stuff manually, but...ehh...
You definitely need something with ability to adjust cents to do sweetened stuff. But, that's beyond straight intonation.
JK....if you have reason to be on the west side, you can bring it by...WITH NEW STRINGS ON IT....and I'll strobe it for you. But, as point out--you want the action where it is. OR, my recommendation is to take it to Joe down at Corner. He's the only guy I've used in town who does a better job than I do. ONLY guy I don't have to take it home from a set up and tweak. And TELL him on the way in you want to know if there's a fundamental issue with the guitar. See--that's the thing about guitar intonation, setting it is CAKE...that's the easy part of a set up...but, the nut and fretwork make more difference in whether the guitar is actually in tune up the neck. Meaning--you can do the "intonation" (12th fret to 12th harmonic) quickly, but that can be relatively meaningless to actually being intonated. I had to retire an old Tele clone I had for that reason. It sounded KILLER...and played great...I loved that guitar...but, I simply could never get it consistently intonated. I took it to Joe figuring I just wasn't good enough--he cut a new bone nut for it...and set it up...played even dreamier...still intonation sucked.
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Post by jeromemason on Apr 6, 2014 20:30:19 GMT -6
Love those Old Peterson strobe tuners. No one that came in the studio could work it, would always hand the guitar off to me, but to me it was easier than one you clip on the end. Insanely accurate, and I would agree with you on it only being the tuner for intonation work, if you're really setting up a guitar for recording use. Another one that's good is the old boss one with the needle, those work pretty good too for intonation setups.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2014 21:24:02 GMT -6
Match the 12th harmonic to the fretted. That's all there is to it. Tuner choice is up to you. I have a Gretsch Black Falcon which has a floating vintage bridge. It is a pain but it IS possible.
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Post by popmann on Apr 8, 2014 22:58:22 GMT -6
Love those Old Peterson strobe tuners. No one that came in the studio could work it, would always hand the guitar off to me, but to me it was easier than one you clip on the end. Insanely accurate, and I would agree with you on it only being the tuner for intonation work, if you're really setting up a guitar for recording use. Another one that's good is the old boss one with the needle, those work pretty good too for intonation setups. You know what I find hilarious about that comment? My "everyday", easy, sitting around jamming, throw in the case and go tuner...is an old Boss with a needle!
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Post by henge on Apr 9, 2014 7:07:42 GMT -6
I guess I should just buy a Mastery Bridge and be done with it...but the MB costs half as much as my Squier Jazzmaster I'm soooo tempted by this bridge. It would save alot of time over the course of an album.
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Post by sistercities on May 1, 2014 12:31:06 GMT -6
thanks popmann & matt… will check out those tuners & techniques… 12th harmonic isn't always kosher
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Post by Johnkenn on May 4, 2014 11:40:33 GMT -6
I have a Peterson Strobe Model 450 here...gonna give it a shot...
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Post by Johnkenn on May 4, 2014 22:36:51 GMT -6
WOW...why did I wait so long to borrow this Peterson? Seriously, I don't think I've ever had my electrics more in tune. Thanks for the help, guys!
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Post by svart on May 5, 2014 8:52:23 GMT -6
I ran into an issue the other day and I'm unsure of what is the cause..
I tried DR strings for the first time, because of the rave reviews about sounding good when detuned.
I have an Ibanez AX that I've been playing EB 12-60's tuned down to B. I've never had an issue with them and they intonated just fine, although the guitar is maxed out on the low strings.
So I switched to the DR with 12-60's and my 3rd string seems intonated at the 12th fret and with harmonics up at the higher part of the fretboard, but between frets 2 and 6 the notes are around 3-5 cents too high.
Getting these in tune means that the rest of the string is out of tune, and re-intonating that string for those frets means everything else is out.
I've never had this problem before through probably 300 sets of strings and 50 guitars through the studio and of my own..
Is it possible that this is caused by a bad string?
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Post by henge on May 5, 2014 9:43:26 GMT -6
I ran into an issue the other day and I'm unsure of what is the cause.. I tried DR strings for the first time, because of the rave reviews about sounding good when detuned. I have an Ibanez AX that I've been playing EB 12-60's tuned down to B. I've never had an issue with them and they intonated just fine, although the guitar is maxed out on the low strings. So I switched to the DR with 12-60's and my 3rd string seems intonated at the 12th fret and with harmonics up at the higher part of the fretboard, but between frets 2 and 6 the notes are around 3-5 cents too high. Getting these in tune means that the rest of the string is out of tune, and re-intonating that string for those frets means everything else is out. I've never had this problem before through probably 300 sets of strings and 50 guitars through the studio and of my own.. Is it possible that this is caused by a bad string? Is the new string the same length as the old one? The only time I tried DR's was with bass and I didn't like them.
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Post by svart on May 5, 2014 11:05:34 GMT -6
Same size, same length. I have no idea why it would do this. All the other strings are fine.
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Post by popmann on May 5, 2014 12:35:18 GMT -6
Strings can be bad, yes. Why not get a baritone guitar to get that low. That's what they're made for. Different scale length...fret spacing...I would imagine completely different string sets and gauge relationship.
You're welcome, JK.
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Post by svart on May 5, 2014 14:00:05 GMT -6
Strings can be bad, yes. Why not get a baritone guitar to get that low. That's what they're made for. Different scale length...fret spacing...I would imagine completely different string sets and gauge relationship. You're welcome, JK. Yeah, I've never had a problem until now. A baritone might be in the future for me, but I'm not really a guitarist. I have fun and that's about all, so it's not really worth it to me to go spend large amounts on something I might not really use. I am in the market for some studio guitars, but I rarely get anyone through that detunes.
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