|
|
Post by enlav on Oct 25, 2021 15:07:27 GMT -6
So while there are plenty of places and people I can turn to, I'm hoping you all would maybe have a more rounded attitude about guitars, rather than getting one that will survive generations, build value, last multiple shows without tuning, keep intonation even after running into a concrete wall drunk, or whatever selling point my buddies will try to get me with.
I've been planning an offset (JM) build for a while that I'd end up sourcing the body from one of the many unfinished body suppliers on reverb/ebay, slap some paint and a finish on it, stick a warmoth (24.75" scale) neck on it, and load it up with the mastery trem/bridge. The benefit of going custom is allowing for various other options like alternate pickup routing if I didn't want to go with the standard dual JM pickups, and getting to even possibly have body built a little slimmer.
When I start to add up what all the components would come to (the biggest offenders being the Mastery Trem/Bridge, and Warmoth neck), I start to wonder if I'm maybe placing too much emphasis on the luxuries of being able to choose what I start with, as opposed to looking at something else like the Classic Vibe Squiers and upgrading those as I find the need to.
Has anyone else gone through a similar dilemma and come to a reasonable outcome?
Alternatively, are there any other worthy cheap alternatives when it comes to guitars of this nature? (Jazzmaster clones if you will, but always interested in similar instruments)
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Oct 25, 2021 21:12:24 GMT -6
I'm not totally sure how nice the CV Squires are...seems like I picked one up a year or two ago and I was surprised at how bad it felt. But - you should definitely check it out. I've got a Vintera Strat (Vintage Era - Mind was blown when I realized that...thought it was a city in Mexico) and after I got it set up, it's really freaking fantastic. Pickups are great too. This Jazzmaster is drool-worthy... www.fender.com/en-US/electric-guitars/jazzmaster/vintera-60s-jazzmaster/0149753305.html |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Oct 25, 2021 21:13:45 GMT -6
Despise that bridge, though.
|
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Oct 25, 2021 22:13:16 GMT -6
The Vintera looks great - I know it's not a common thing on Fenders in general, but I love the matching headstock/body finish. Agreed about the bridge though; I don't know if I'm as aggressive nowadays with strumming and trem-use, but when I've played jags/jazzmasters before, I just didn't really enjoy the saddle design in particular.
(edit: only slightly related, but I just found that there are Mastery Rick bridges... had I known that [or they existed] years ago, I would never have sold my 330 jetglo...)
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Oct 26, 2021 7:02:15 GMT -6
The Vintera looks great - I know it's not a common thing on Fenders in general, but I love the matching headstock/body finish. Agreed about the bridge though; I don't know if I'm as aggressive nowadays with strumming and trem-use, but when I've played jags/jazzmasters before, I just didn't really enjoy the saddle design in particular. (edit: only slightly related, but I just found that there are Mastery Rick bridges... had I known that [or they existed] years ago, I would never have sold my 330 jetglo...)
I know - I just need to get one. Don’t know why I’ve avoided it for so long. |
|
|
|
Post by anders on Oct 26, 2021 11:58:33 GMT -6
In my experience, assembling yourself is not the cheapest route, takes quite a lot of time (especially if you do the finishing), and the 2nd hand value is often less than a comparable instrument. But it can be very satisfying, and you can get the little details right the way you want them – compensated bridges, the right pickups, etc. But don't trick yourself into thinking it is cheap. It isn't. If you still do, here is my tutorial for a simple but fairly good looking finish: sandpaper and tru-oil sunburst: imgur.com/a/5kuKWI've done a handful of different guitars, and it is great fun. But they're hard to get rid of. |
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Oct 26, 2021 12:29:46 GMT -6
Thanks for the resource, Anders! I figure a (mostly-) self-built guitar will hold literally no value outside of what the parts could be sold for, but there's that appeal of having something that actually fits exactly what you're looking for. The guitar I use the most right now is a defaced, valueless mid 2000's Melody Maker reissue that constantly undergoes pickup and wiring changes. I'm never 100% happy with the tone, but I fell in love with the shorter (Gibson) scale and the lightweight body.
I may need to visit the local shop and see what they have...
|
|
|
|
Post by jeremygillespie on Oct 26, 2021 14:22:36 GMT -6
I’d do it yourself. Most of the Jazzmasters fender is putting out have the wrong bridge on it, or they have the correct bridge but the neck/body geometry is so far off as to make them basically unplayable unless you want to strap a set of 12’s on it. Even so they just aren’t right. Not sure what the deal is over there in regards to the jazzmaster on anything other than the reissues which are pricey.
Mastery bridge is a smart move.
|
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Oct 26, 2021 14:57:23 GMT -6
There’s definitely a lot to be said for retail, since you get to have a hands on experience with the instrument.
I think the grinding sound of he bridge is just part of the Jazzmaster sound. Does the mastery bridge still have that?
|
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Oct 26, 2021 16:57:40 GMT -6
Over the years I've put together about two dozen partscasters... happy to go into details but I'll say, if you want a great instrument there's more involved then just buying parts and screwing things together.
Squiers... I have a pair of reissue basses so I'll yak about those. They're an exceptional value for the money but if your used to nicer instruments its real easy to tell where they cut corners.
Also just my opinion, but I think if you buy a Squier with intentions of replacing bits with high dollar parts like a mastery bridge, fancy pants pickups, locking tuners etc... you should've just bought a better guitar in the first place.
Few years ago I bought a used 70s RI bass for $250. Studio partner after we closed shop, he moved to the west coast and took his nice American PJ with him... I needed a "Fender" bass for occasional use. Played a lotta things at all price points. Squier held its own next to an MIJ Geddy Lee. Geddy felt a little more refined but plugged in? Very similar.
Ended up joining a signed band in 2019 & needed a backup Fender bass. Local music shop had a going out of business sale and I walked out with a '60s RI P bass for about $265?
If you can do your own maintenance & setups they play as good as anything and the stock pickups sound fine.
Downsides? A few... for instance the tuners on both aren't great. Adequate. But not great.
The 70s jazz has like, the worst bridge ever on it. Saddles constantly moving which makes intonation and action a moving target. Also the neck is probably the most unstable piece of maple I've ever owned. Needs a truss adjustment a few times a year. Pickups sound fine but the pots? Ehhh. Crappy. Not a problem for me 'cause I usually leave 'em full up... or go like bridge pickup only for the Jaco thing. But they do suck.
The 60s P has a good sounding pickup. When it works. Pickup was shorting out soon after I bought it. Bang it with my fingers, signal cuts in & out. Fixed that but didn't stay fixed. Same crappy pots. But the bridge? Much better. Looks physically different then the jazz as well. Also the fretboard... its not rosewood but some kind of locally grown wood from India? Looks fine but after a while my fingers smell super funky.
Band had planned to take March & April of 2020 off from gigging and I was going to address some of those issues... new bridge like a hipshot or Gotoh for the jazz and maybe chuck an EMG in the P bass. Maybe EMG's in both. Things happened. Never got around to it.
Overall I've got a little over $500 into the pair and really no complaints given that. And I've done plenty of 3 hour rehearsals with both & never felt like I was missing much... both remain bone stock (...though I should really order a bridge for the jazz...) but make no mistake, even if I replaced the weak points they aren't nearly as refined as nicer MIM or USA rides.
|
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Oct 26, 2021 21:39:47 GMT -6
Removing authors, just so I'm not pinging everyone this late. On an old colleague's Bilt, it basically felt like it had all of the upside of a jazz/jag trem, with none of the downside. I didn't notice the grinding sound -or- mechanic resistance that I have on the various jags and clones I've played or that have been brought in bands. It was only a year or so ago though that I actually found out that Bilt used Mastery Bridges/Trems, so that's where I made the connection. That noted, I'm never doing anything crazy on other people's NICE/expansive guitars, so I quite possibly just didn't push it enough to hear any of the ugliness.
This is probably the bitter truth I needed. I've got a luthier friend, but I just hate involving people when I know they have enough on their plate as is. We'll see how next week goes and if I end up with some expensive outboard gear, I may just go out and buy some used/beater guitar to fill the itch as is. I was eyeballing some of those weird squier paranormal models. Maybe the Cabronita with JM pups would be interesting... (maybe not, you get the cheap jazzmaster pups, but none of the interesting elements of the jazzmaster; no "bending" from behind the bridge, trem, rhythm circuit, etc.)
|
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Oct 27, 2021 12:37:36 GMT -6
This is probably the bitter truth I needed. I've got a luthier friend, but I just hate involving people when I know they have enough on their plate as is. We'll see how next week goes and if I end up with some expensive outboard gear, I may just go out and buy some used/beater guitar to fill the itch as is. I was eyeballing some of those weird squier paranormal models. Maybe the Cabronita with JM pups would be interesting... (maybe not, you get the cheap jazzmaster pups, but none of the interesting elements of the jazzmaster; no "bending" from behind the bridge, trem, rhythm circuit, etc.)
I don't want to talk you or anyone else out of building an instrument and Warmoth parts are great. Excellent quality. But if its the first time your putting something together better to approach it from a learning experience... do it because you want to learn how to put a guitar together. If you go in thinking its going to be easy, smash things together with a screwdriver very likely you won't end up with a good instrument. Realistically even if you ordered everything together, all the parts arrive from one source in one box they won't just snap together like Lego. Most things are raw and need a degree of finesse. Wood, especially unfinished wood swells & shrinks... and often there are CNC / drill lines that need to be reemed. After finishing excess finish needs to be removed from tuner holes & bridge posts... More then once I've seen someone split the headstock on their brand new $300 neck because they tried to jam the tuners in... or took a Makita drill to it... If you don't have a decently stocked tool chest, and time/patience then you'll need to factor those costs into the build. |
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Oct 27, 2021 13:07:29 GMT -6
I don't want to talk you or anyone else out of building an instrument and Warmoth parts are great. Excellent quality. But if its the first time your putting something together better to approach it from a learning experience... do it because you want to learn how to put a guitar together. If you go in thinking its going to be easy, smash things together with a screwdriver very likely you won't end up with a good instrument. No worries! Your post in particular made me come to terms with some things that just didn't make as much sense - like thinking at some point I'd be sticking a warmoth neck on a squier body might not be the most sound thing to do; and also that I'd probably need "adult" (expert) supervision on various stages of the project. I'm by no means discouraged, more just that I should probably take this idea a little more seriously.
I'm still weighing out some different possibilities at the moment, I might see if I can get a cheap offset, maybe even a jag, to see if I'm still in love with certain elements of the guitar type of guitar as I remember being, if If the 24" scale is that different from the 24.75" scale, and various other things before I start moving forward on the custom project. I think that may clear up a few of the design specs I'm still up in the air about.
Though honestly, now that I know about the Mastery Rickenbacker bridge, I sort of want to start looking at 330's and 360's again...
|
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Oct 27, 2021 21:14:51 GMT -6
Squiers are nice mod platforms... I don't think anything's bad or wrong about replacing weak spots with better parts.
What I wouldn't do is buy a $400 or $500 guitar and immediately throw another $500 + of parts at it on day one. Roll that coin into a better guitar instead.
Like one day I might fit a Warmoth neck onto the J bass... but probably not until the original neck fails. If it keeps shifting and the truss rod runs out of adjustment room? Sure. Absolutely.
And one of the reasons I'd do that is because I can handle all the fit & finish work myself. Have a background in carpentry & fine cabinetry... I don't have to pay double the cost of the neck in labor.
If I didn't have the skills & well equipped shop? I'd probably ditch the bass and buy something nicer.
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Oct 28, 2021 8:48:23 GMT -6
I've built guitars and played guitars from just about every manufacturer. Honestly, buying something you LIKE PLAYING is #1. Playability can't be oversold. Pickups can be changed to get tones you want, but playing a guitar that fits your hands well just can't be beat.
That said, tonewoods are bullshit. Most of the innate tone is the pickup and the string combination. The rest is technique.
I think the absolute best bang for the Fender buck is the Squire Classic Vibe series. I've told the story here a few times, but here it goes once again..
My cousin and I were looking for a Tele for the studio. I was prepared to pay $$$ for a real Fender american tele, but when we drove around to the guitar shops and played them, none of them were really feeling good to either of us. A lot of them had real issues with finish. It was quite disappointing honestly. I've been playing Ibanez as my main guitars for a long time and I had gotten used to how well they are made for the price and I felt totally underwhelmed with Fenders.
Anyway, my cousin saw a sunburst tele sitting on the wall and he grabbed it down before realizing it was a Squire. He almost put it back but we decided to play it.
It was RIGHT. Everything felt good. Stock setup was actually decent too. Sounded fine. Played nice. Was 400$ and not 1500$.
I bought it.
I put a fender custom bridge pickup in it and now it's one of my favorite guitars to play and I've had no less than a dozen offers from musicians to buy it. Many of them liked it better than their Fender Teles.
Oh and to further stick a knife into jazzmaster bridges.. Don't. Just dont.
I do a lot of indie bands and they LOVE jazzmasters for some reason even though NONE of them use anything but the bridge pickup. HATE the bridge. It's constantly slightly out of intonation no matter how much you work on one. Most end up using one of my other studio guitars instead just to get takes that stay in tune.
|
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Oct 28, 2021 9:12:25 GMT -6
It probably goes without saying, but going to a shop with a good tech affords you the advantage of a lot of those guitars being tweaked and set up.
That thought hit me when I was trying a couple out yesterday.
|
|
|
|
Post by srb on Oct 28, 2021 10:46:02 GMT -6
A great setup guy is worth his weight in gold.
|
|
|
|
Post by robschnapf on Oct 28, 2021 14:36:31 GMT -6
Well hmmm, the advantages of building or piecing together shouldn’t really be about savings.
It’s about getting it the way you want it.
I think I’ve put together 7 or 8 gtrs by now and I’d say 3 of them are really good.
They all play well but for whatever reason not all bodies project the same.
You can tell the good ones because they are so much louder acoustically and that absolutely transfers into when you plug em in.
But I’ve cooked up a cool recipe of parts that I really like and it’s nice to have a gtr wih quality shit on it
From frets to pickups and everything in between.
|
|
|
|
Post by jmoose on Oct 28, 2021 21:14:33 GMT -6
I find it hard to judge guitars by the store setups. Sometimes... often? They take em outta the box, tune em up and hang it. Rare that any store does a full blown setup.
Even if they do my own preferences lean towards heavy strings & higher then typical action...
Like my main rides are Les Paul's with 11s... when I go into a store and grab a fender or Ibanez with floating trem & 9s it bums me out.
|
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Oct 28, 2021 22:10:40 GMT -6
Rare that any store does a full blown setup. Maybe I should be counting my blessings that we have one shop in particular that's a little lighter on supply, but it seems rare that there's anything on the wall that really feels like it's suffering from the usual fresh out of the box mishaps.
Got my hands on a couple classic vibes (Jazz/Jag) at a different shop today, I was a little underwhelmed by both. Got distracted by a used Mojave MA200 that had recently showed up.
|
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Oct 29, 2021 17:26:13 GMT -6
A couple of semi-similar things here. I've nearly built two telecasters from scratch. But the projects are not finished, so I can't report really on them. I botched the necks so I'll have to buy necks from someone else. It's hard to build a guitar without proper training and guidance. But the bodies, fingers crossed, might be OK and I have all the other parts on hand. Something on the back burner that I'm somewhat eager to resolve, to find out. I love guitars. I got a Squier Affinity Jazzmaster HH for like, 199 bucks or something, just an absolute dogfood cheap guitar. I refinished the neck (hated the finish that came on it, sticky) and put in all new electronics. Bridge is the stock hardtail strat-style. Boring, but I like it. At first I had EMG pickups in it ( robschnapf wondered about this on instagram, and he was right.) Eventually settled on some high output Dimarzio pickups in this beast. It's sort of a "Jazzblaster" guitar in the style of Lee Ronaldo or maybe Kurt Kobain. I added a coil split push pull pot to both pickups. This guitar does rock, there's no doubt about that. It feels a little cheap, looks a little cheap, but like somebody else was saying, you plug it in, and it rocks. Has the Jazzmaster rat-rod vibe. I also added locking tuners. The Jazzmaster body does something, it has a heavy tone, no matter what else you do. I'd like to have a fancy vintage style jazzmaster someday, that's a crapshoot like jeremy said, "what the hell is going on with these Fender Jazzmaster guitars?" A bunch of flea market nonsense with all kinds of price points. That's why I got in at the cheapest level. But the American Professional Jazzmaster is really appealing to me. I doubt I could afford it, but it seems like the right thing. You might also look at the G&L ones, they're supposedly built right. Maybe kind of bizzaro not to say Fender on the headstock, but worth a look anyway. George and Leo, Leo was there for a while. I had a friend that was crazy about the Mastery bridges. He talked about them too much which made me hate everything about them. But if I can divide the actual product, from that person and their personality, there might be something there, for me personally, separate from the hype. The price would be a put-off, but hey, if it's the best thing, maybe it's worth it? I have another friend, who's a bit more respectful, that says the J Mascis Squier is pretty much hard to argue with, out of the box. So I have that in the back of my mind too...not expensive. There's a second person I used to know who has played the same guitar. Both gigging guitarists, bandleaders. But I commend you for asking the Jazzmaster Question. There's no one answer. People have taken them in wildly different directions. Sort of like the quest for a "Klon" pedal or a tube screamer. It's whatever you make of it, and that's what's great about it. |
|
|
|
Post by enlav on Oct 29, 2021 21:43:59 GMT -6
G&L's a good mention; There was a period of time this year where their Clearance Instruments section (b-stocks) on their site was just full of steals, lots of Tribute models going out starting around $200. I picked up a fallout bass for... I think $300 or so, since a smaller short scale seemed like fun. Long story short, I missed out on a few semi-hollow ASAT's because I was being too picky about finishes... Models were flying off the (digital) shelves at such a rate, I think they finally wised up and raised the prices of all the instruments by around $100... (OR this was during a big production run and they were trying to get rid of the scratch 'n dents as soon as possible). Regarding Mastery Bridges; I'm sure there are also alternatives, I'm just familiar with them from playing someone's Bilt. I'm guessing that the American Vintage hardware will likely be up to snuff for most players, but there's a certain... texture (not sound, but the way the bridge feels on the side of your palm?) that I really like form the Mastery; like the saddles protrude up past the strings and make contact with your hand. I know it's a particularly weird thing to gravitate on, but it's one of the few things that I think I figured out while trying out guitars recently. This was never really an issue on a lot of fenders that had those solid saddles. (I'm beginning to think I have some mild case of OCD here.) [...] This guitar does rock, there's no doubt about that. It feels a little cheap, looks a little cheap, but like somebody else was saying, you plug it in, and it rocks. Has the Jazzmaster rat-rod vibe. I also added locking tuners. The Jazzmaster body does something, it has a heavy tone, no matter what else you do. I'm hoping I can take my melody maker on a similar journey. Currently deliberating if I should upgrade the wrap-around to something else. (But first, I have to figure out what I did wrong writing in the new pickup; seems noisier than it should) |
|
|
|
Post by robschnapf on Oct 30, 2021 11:22:17 GMT -6
I think the J Mascis Jazzmaster is a solid way to go.
Swap out the trem.
I really like Descendant Vibrato and/or the Stay Trem.
I always change the volume pot value from 1meg.
That value makes em to bright in my opinion.
250k works and if you want it a little brighter, 500k.
Did this to my 63 Jazzmaster and love it.
It still sounds like a Jazzmaster with the one advantage of it relating to your strat and tele better.
You don’t have to readjust the amp and turn down the treble.
The pot value gives it Just a little haircut off the top.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2021 2:13:06 GMT -6
This is how I buy guitars, walk in to a showroom and try every one of them. Walk out with what sounds the best and then get it professionally set up.
IME there's no real consistency to it, I've tried two of the exact same guitars on multiple occasions and loved one / hated the other. Had two American Pacer's set up the exact same w/ Seymour Duncan's and one of them just wouldn't play ball. If the wood isn't right there's no saving the geetar..
I have one rather expensive Ibanez 12 string that sounds awesome, a Faith Acoustic which is pretty good, an old Strat and of course the Pacer. Said cheapo Pacer sounds better than it has any right to, I had it gutted completely and the trem removed / upgraded the pup's.. Didn't make a dramatic difference to the tone but it was better to play at least.
Gotta say though from the few I've tried the Pacifica's are pretty damn good.
|
|
|
|
Post by hadaja on Dec 21, 2021 4:17:48 GMT -6
I have been working with a local Luthier to get a small run of higher spec'ed Custom line Strats made with a few personal tweaks.
Its been a going for a while now due to shortage of supplies out there. But there's a lot to know and a lot of finer points that really only a guitar maker could appreciate in higher spec'ed guitars.
It's harder to get nicer reasonable priced well made guitars in Australia. Things like boutique Nash guitars and MJT's and Kelton Swade, Suhr etc are all big $$$$ here.
|
|
