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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2014 12:05:46 GMT -6
So, what makes Tele's have that irresistible spank? I have a Strat with Vintage Noiseless pups. It get's close. It's decent. I also have a Gretsch Black Falcon that I put TV Jones Hiltrons in. Now these pickups rock and the guitar is so versatile - yes, I do love it. The Gretsch covers a ton of ground from chicken picking and rockabilly to moderate shred and Jazz. My greatest appreciation of it is for its crunch that is ballsy and clean at the same time when using a plexi. But I digress. tvjones.com/pickups-2/single-coil-pickups/tv-ht/Yet, whenever I put a Tele in my hand, there is that glassy top end spank, even on the big strings that nothing else can touch. What gives the Tele that niche? Any of you know? Rob
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2014 16:59:11 GMT -6
I wish I did but I can tell you that in the last five years I have been exclusively a Telecaster player and I've owned three of them now, waiting for my fourth which will be a La Cabronita with a single P90 in the bridge.
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Post by henge on Jun 13, 2014 17:58:29 GMT -6
I have no clue but tele's are solid while strats are hollowed out for the springs and trem. That might have something to do with it.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 13, 2014 20:49:31 GMT -6
Whenever I mix a live gig, I know a tele will sit right. It just seems to work better than anything else in at least this room.
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 13, 2014 22:47:45 GMT -6
They just cut.... and they cut but also have a lovely full tone to them. I know a producer that does a lot of rock bands, he and I were talking about this one day and he told me that the guitarist face always drops when he tells them to hang up the Les and grab the Tele. So many people think these guitars are only for country and chicken pick'n...... if you've got the right pickups i.e. the vintage or some from Mojotone, these guitars are incredible for hard rock. Maybe not like metal, but for what's mostly on the radio a lot of those big sounding guitars you hear are probably Telecasters, a lot of producers use them in rock.
And a lot of the reason they have that spank sound is the pickups, and the fact that the guitar is so solid, there's nothing hollow about it, so it naturally just has a lot of attack. Or at least that's how it's always been explained to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2014 23:14:50 GMT -6
I have no clue but tele's are solid while strats are hollowed out for the springs and trem. That might have something to do with it. Posted by jeromemason26 minutes ago They just cut.... and they cut but also have a lovely full tone to them. I know a producer that does a lot of rock bands, he and I were talking about this one day and he told me that the guitarist face always drops when he tells them to hang up the Les and grab the Tele. So many people think these guitars are only for country and chicken pick'n...... if you've got the right pickups i.e. the vintage or some from Mojotone, these guitars are incredible for hard rock. Maybe not like metal, but for what's mostly on the radio a lot of those big sounding guitars you hear are probably Telecasters, a lot of producers use them in rock. And a lot of the reason they have that spank sound is the pickups, and the fact that the guitar is so solid, there's nothing hollow about it, so it naturally just has a lot of attack. Or at least that's how it's always been explained to me. Interesting. I thought correlated the solid body with attack.
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Post by henge on Jun 14, 2014 4:49:17 GMT -6
I have no clue but tele's are solid while strats are hollowed out for the springs and trem. That might have something to do with it. Posted by jeromemason26 minutes ago They just cut.... and they cut but also have a lovely full tone to them. I know a producer that does a lot of rock bands, he and I were talking about this one day and he told me that the guitarist face always drops when he tells them to hang up the Les and grab the Tele. So many people think these guitars are only for country and chicken pick'n...... if you've got the right pickups i.e. the vintage or some from Mojotone, these guitars are incredible for hard rock. Maybe not like metal, but for what's mostly on the radio a lot of those big sounding guitars you hear are probably Telecasters, a lot of producers use them in rock. And a lot of the reason they have that spank sound is the pickups, and the fact that the guitar is so solid, there's nothing hollow about it, so it naturally just has a lot of attack. Or at least that's how it's always been explained to me. Interesting. I thought correlated the solid body with attack. From what I THINK I know, bolt ons have more attack than solid bodies.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2014 8:11:36 GMT -6
I meant to type that I never equated a solid body with attack.
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Post by geoff738 on Jun 14, 2014 11:23:06 GMT -6
They just cut.... and they cut but also have a lovely full tone to them. I know a producer that does a lot of rock bands, he and I were talking about this one day and he told me that the guitarist face always drops when he tells them to hang up the Les and grab the Tele. So many people think these guitars are only for country and chicken pick'n...... if you've got the right pickups i.e. the vintage or some from Mojotone, these guitars are incredible for hard rock. Maybe not like metal, but for what's mostly on the radio a lot of those big sounding guitars you hear are probably Telecasters, a lot of producers use them in rock. And a lot of the reason they have that spank sound is the pickups, and the fact that the guitar is so solid, there's nothing hollow about it, so it naturally just has a lot of attack. Or at least that's how it's always been explained to me. A lot of Dino Jr stuff is allegedly recorded on a Tele. Through a Vox. J only uses the Jazzmaster/ Marshall setup live. LZ 1. Etc. etc. I think some of it has to do with the pickup being suspended in the bridge plate. The saddles probably make a bit of difference (at least the three saddle versions) and the lack of a trem probably plays a role too. I'm a rock guy, and I mostly play Teles too - got a bunch of them. I find using a 4 way switch brings a lot of tonal options, and if the pickups are RWRP you also get way less noise when both pickups are on. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 14, 2014 13:11:42 GMT -6
I meant to type that I never equated a solid body with attack. Think of it like a kick drum.... the tighter you tune it the more full range attack it has, same principle. The wood also has a lot to do with how certain Teles sound. Some are ash, some are alder, IMO the northern ash tends to be a little fuller with more sustain, the swamp ash is more snappy and brighter. The alder tends to be a little scooped, but we are kind of splitting hairs with that, the pickups are really important on a Tele if you want it to sound right. My Tele is swamp ash, and is a lighter guitar. I chose that because because I like a brighter guitar, I also have the vintage electronics and Mojotone Broadcasters in it, so if I want it to sound heavy I can just pull back on the tone knob, if I want bright and snappy I just turn all the knobs up, it's a great guitar that was a custom kit. I've got a thread in here on it, if you're ever looking to do a new one you should check into that route. I built a guitar that would had costed me around 3k from fender for just over $700. And it's freaking gorgeous.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 14, 2014 15:47:50 GMT -6
I want one again, but I've kinda convinced myself that it would be a little redundant considering in already have a strat. I don't need anymore eg's unless they add another tone. Been thinking of grabbing a Les Paul to go with my strat and jazzmaster...but for some reason I can't make myself pull the trigger. If love to pick up that Squier Classic Vibe Custom. Beautiful.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 14, 2014 15:49:01 GMT -6
I bet a Tele with my new Fender 68 Deluxe would be very Mike Campbell-esque though! Damn you RGO!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2014 16:04:59 GMT -6
Forget Gibson if you have a strat - too main stream and redundant. Get a Gretsch. Either a solid body for rockin or a 6120 for versatility.
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 15, 2014 1:39:29 GMT -6
I want one again, but I've kinda convinced myself that it would be a little redundant considering in already have a strat. I don't need anymore eg's unless they add another tone. Been thinking of grabbing a Les Paul to go with my strat and jazzmaster...but for some reason I can't make myself pull the trigger. If love to pick up that Squier Classic Vibe Custom. Beautiful. Check into PRS if you ever decide to go that route, give them a shot a long side the Les. I've got a PRS, and it's similar, but feels a bit more modern and is really versatile.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2014 13:43:33 GMT -6
I think some of it has to do with the pickup being suspended in the bridge plate. The saddles probably make a bit of difference (at least the three saddle versions) and the lack of a trem probably plays a role too.... I find using a 4 way switch brings a lot of tonal options, and if the pickups are RWRP you also get way less noise when both pickups are on. Cheers, Geoff Interesting about the Bridge Plate. hmmm. Can you explain your switch setup?
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Post by geoff738 on Jun 15, 2014 17:12:47 GMT -6
Can you explain your switch setup? Yeah, assuming typical two single coil pickups, but reverse wound and reverse polarity. Mine are wired so you get the bridge alone, then both pickups in parallel (I think), then the neck alone, then both pickups in series (I think - I may have the series/parallel bit backwards). When the switch is in the second position it is pretty close to humbucking. In the fourth position it is louder, more aggressive mids and still cuts out a good portion of the single coil buzz, but not as much as the other (second) position running through both pickups. I don't think you lose anything by wiring it this way over a typical three way, and you get the extra tone option. If you played totally clean all the time, might not be worth pursuing. I also don't know if the fourth position adds more noise if the pickups aren't RWRP - that might be a concern too. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by geoff738 on Jun 15, 2014 17:15:14 GMT -6
See how it's done here: link
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2014 21:13:05 GMT -6
I follow. When reading, I remembered a builder speaking about this. Very cool. I think he had one of the positions with the pups out of phase for a Strat-ish thing.
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Post by swurveman on Jun 16, 2014 20:28:11 GMT -6
I originally finally settled on being a tele player because for some reason my tele stays in tune for me better than any other guitar. Then, I bought the Seymour Duncan Hot Lead Stack for my tele bridge pickup. Talk about Rawk!
As for tone: I just bought a Mojave Coyote amp. I'm running it with a Marshall 4x12 with Greenbacks with my tele and it gives a really lovely tone with some grit, like the opening riff to Sheryl Crow's "My Favorite Mistake". You know where he upstrokes the high E and b string. Really cool tone. Stellar sounding amp.
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Post by jimwilliams on Jun 17, 2014 10:44:26 GMT -6
I have 6 or 7 Telecasters here. One is a custom 12 string I built back in 1979 with a birdseye maple body and a Fender Shennadoah 12 string neck from the late 1960's. That has custom wound pickups done back in 1979 by a little known fellow in Santa Barbara called Seymour Duncan. Those are wound to 2k ohms each with a resonant frequency of 32k hz. It has active treble/bass EQ built in.
The rest are 6 stringers, hollow, solid, mohagany, maple, ash and alder and my Let It Be solid rosewood. Each are set up with a preamp/boost circuit fitted with a hum nulling circuit. A dummy coil is fitted under the strings and a trim pot nulls out the hum to -80 db. This way I get classic Tele tones and no noise. The pickups are all stock windings. One tele is a Jim Adkins's hollow/Les Paul special design with P-90 pickups.
Since I love Hendrix style levels and feedback, I modified the mechanics to handle those SPL's. The bridge pickup's steel plate is gone, replaced by lock washers and latex rubber hose for the springs. The bridge is secured with silicone glue to prevent howling at high volumes. The innards are all lined with adhesive copper foil tape and grounded. The string ground is replaced with a .022uf cap to prevent lethal shocks.
There is no buzz nor hum when your hands are removed from the strings. The preamps will drive very long cables without losses and will even drive a set of headphones. They all look stock on the outside.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 17, 2014 10:55:24 GMT -6
I have 6 or 7 Telecasters here. One is a custom 12 string I built back in 1979 with a birdseye maple body and a Fender Shennadoah 12 string neck from the late 1960's. That has custom wound pickups done back in 1979 by a little known fellow in Santa Barbara called Seymour Duncan. Those are wound to 2k ohms each with a resonant frequency of 32k hz. It has active treble/bass EQ built in. The rest are 6 stringers, hollow, solid, mohagany, maple, ash and alder and my Let It Be solid rosewood. Each are set up with a preamp/boost circuit fitted with a hum nulling circuit. A dummy coil is fitted under the strings and a trim pot nulls out the hum to -80 db. This way I get classic Tele tones and no noise. The pickups are all stock windings. One tele is a Jim Adkins's hollow/Les Paul special design with P-90 pickups. Since I love Hendrix style levels and feedback, I modified the mechanics to handle those SPL's. The bridge pickup's steel plate is gone, replaced by lock washers and latex rubber hose for the springs. The bridge is secured with silicone glue to prevent howling at high volumes. The innards are all lined with adhesive copper foil tape and grounded. The string ground is replaced with a .022uf cap to prevent lethal shocks. There is no buzz nor hum when your hands are removed from the strings. The preamps will drive very long cables without losses and will even drive a set of headphones. They all look stock on the outside. Cool info, but it doesn't answer the initial question... "So, what makes Tele's have that irresistible spank?" Any thoughts?
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Post by geoff738 on Jun 17, 2014 12:55:00 GMT -6
Well, a lot of Tele bridge pickups are a little microphonic as well. Possibly because of the steel plate? Maybe that's part of it too.
Jim, do you think removing the plate changes the tone at all or makes the pickups less microphonic? Or just let you wind em up louder?
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 15:06:28 GMT -6
I want one again, but I've kinda convinced myself that it would be a little redundant considering in already have a strat. I don't need anymore eg's unless they add another tone. Been thinking of grabbing a Les Paul to go with my strat and jazzmaster...but for some reason I can't make myself pull the trigger. If love to pick up that Squier Classic Vibe Custom. Beautiful. Check into PRS if you ever decide to go that route, give them a shot a long side the Les. I've got a PRS, and it's similar, but feels a bit more modern and is really versatile. PRS may be the only modern sound I can't stand. I just don't like that sound, reminds me of Hoobastank.
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Post by jimwilliams on Jun 18, 2014 9:09:57 GMT -6
The bridge is part of it, I use the old style folded edge bridges, those are cold rolled hard steel. Saddles can be rolled smooth steel or knurled, I prefer smooth as string bending can cause the string angle to rub and loose sustain. A also have one with brass saddles, a far less twangy tone. New models now use a flat bridge plate and six Strat vintage style saddles.
The steel plate used to mount the bridge pickup spreads the magnetic field out underneath the pickup. It does little to effect the tone as the strings are located on the other side of that field. What it does do is create the nagging squealing under higher gain. That is the plate actually moving at that frequency. Dipping it in wax helps but removing it solves the problems of microphonics if you use the latex/lockwasher technique. The neck pickup cover can also be a location for mechanical feedback, all of my pickups are wax dipped, the ones with the metal cover are dipped assembled to create a solid piece that can't vibrate. I also use latex hose to mount it, no springs are those are also magnetic and will vibrate/squeal at higher gains. Early Hendrix recordings and live shows had him play 1965 era Strats that also used latex hose to mount the pickups. Later CBS Strats switched to steel springs, you can hear Hendrix struggle to control the squealing of those guitars.
The secret of the Telecaster bridge pickup spank is the geometry of the coil. It is a larger bobbin than a Strat pickup and that focuses a narrower magnetic field under the strings than you get with a Strat or Jazzmaster pickup. That is due to the windings, it's a rather narrow stack with cotton string used to fill out the bobbin after winding. If you look at a Jazzmaster pickup, it's a flatter bobbin with the windings spread out further away from the magnet poles. That grabs a wider aperature of the string's field making for a fatter tone.
The magic of the Telecaster is found in the player's hands. With that ability to create a wide pallet of string tones from the player, it's as individual a sound as the player wishes to develope. Compared to Gibson humbuckers that double the fundamental frequency, those tend to make the player sound more anonomous and alike unless the player developes a unique way of attacking the strings.
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Post by jimwilliams on Jun 18, 2014 9:10:39 GMT -6
The bridge is part of it, I use the old style folded edge bridges, those are cold rolled hard steel. Saddles can be rolled smooth steel or knurled, I prefer smooth as string bending can cause the string angle to rub and loose sustain. A also have one with brass saddles, a far less twangy tone. New models now use a flat bridge plate and six Strat vintage style saddles.
The steel plate used to mount the bridge pickup spreads the magnetic field out underneath the pickup. It does little to effect the tone as the strings are located on the other side of that field. What it does do is create the nagging squealing under higher gain. That is the plate actually moving at that frequency. Dipping it in wax helps but removing it solves the problems of microphonics if you use the latex/lockwasher technique. The neck pickup cover can also be a location for mechanical feedback, all of my pickups are wax dipped, the ones with the metal cover are dipped assembled to create a solid piece that can't vibrate. I also use latex hose to mount it, no springs are those are also magnetic and will vibrate/squeal at higher gains. Early Hendrix recordings and live shows had him play 1965 era Strats that also used latex hose to mount the pickups. Later CBS Strats switched to steel springs, you can hear Hendrix struggle to control the squealing of those guitars.
The secret of the Telecaster bridge pickup spank is the geometry of the coil. It is a larger bobbin than a Strat pickup and that focuses a narrower magnetic field under the strings than you get with a Strat or Jazzmaster pickup. That is due to the windings, it's a rather narrow stack with cotton string used to fill out the bobbin after winding. If you look at a Jazzmaster pickup, it's a flatter bobbin with the windings spread out further away from the magnet poles. That grabs a wider aperature of the string's field making for a fatter tone.
The magic of the Telecaster is found in the player's hands. With that ability to create a wide pallet of string tones from the player, it's as individual a sound as the player wishes to develope. Compared to Gibson humbuckers that double the fundamental frequency, those tend to make the player sound more anonomous and alike unless the player developes a unique way of attacking the strings.
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