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Post by upstairs on Apr 23, 2024 23:37:15 GMT -6
In mucking around in the big Suno wheel-of-despair, I'm pretty sure I heard at least a few...aghem...songs where I recognize the source material. For example suno.com/song/c0a547f7-6419-4a28-b043-802ad69cb050 sounds like it's pulling heavily from Deep Purple's "Hush"
Same organ, same bass resonance, and even the drums I think (though mangled.)
Anyway, after an hour of that I'm due for the biggest ear-wash ever. Cleanse me, oh Father in heaven. |
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 24, 2024 0:00:24 GMT -6
I was trying Sumo again (showing my son who’s a Computer Science Masters student) and I realised what’s so wrong with it. It’s literally mindless creation - it’s sophisticated randomised doodling. An ultra high speed version of a million monkeys for a billion years at a million typewriters - waiting for Shakespeare - only in theory will it happen - in reality mindless creation. We create music my identifying those moments that send a tingle down our spine, we make choices based on a visceral physical reaction. Sumo (and it’s like) is spineless, soulless musical doodling. It’s the veneer of creativity yet truly mindless. It will never improve. It will never grow a spine to make tingle  |
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Post by OtisGreying on Apr 24, 2024 1:10:18 GMT -6
Been messing with it, its impressive how spot on it is re-creating the mainstream sound. In the "Pop" section the submissions are spot on especially in the female voices. Feel like I've heard 50+ female pop singers sound exactly like that at this point. Sad, whispery, pouty, intimate, young female voice, singing pop. Man has that been done to fucking death
I don't think it is going to be threatening to serious musicians and creatives, at least for like - maybe another 5 years**. Now as for those "songwriters" the labels all have sitting in their "lets write a lowest common denominator smash" echo chamber circles - those jobs are going to the wind. Only the most potent forms of nepotism on offer will be their salvation.
What I'm interested in is using it sort of as a drum machine or bass line generator for whatever the hell you can type in and using as a songwriting tool, if it ever developes that functionality. Not yet sure how I feel about that ethically, but that was my first thought when playing with it
*5 years being a total shot in the dark, who knows how advanced it could get
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Post by suicity on Apr 24, 2024 1:32:08 GMT -6
I was trying Sumo again (showing my son who’s a Computer Science Masters student) and I realised what’s so wrong with it. It’s literally mindless creation - it’s sophisticated randomised doodling. An ultra high speed version of a million monkeys for a billion years at a million typewriters - waiting for Shakespeare - only in theory will it happen - in reality mindless creation. We create music my identifying those moments that send a tingle down our spine, we make choices based on a visceral physical reaction. Sumo (and it’s like) is spineless, soulless musical doodling. It’s the veneer of creativity yet truly mindless. It will never improve. It will never grow a spine to make tingle I work in tech, and I have always argued that what AI lacks completely is both Context and Intent. Contrary to what we are all lead to believe in the modern world, there are sufficient studies to show that no matter how logical we think our decisions are, without emotional impetus we can't make decisions. (Studies performed on people who have suffered damage to the portions of their brain where most emotional processing takes place.) The other problem with AI is that we don't really know how to quantify intelligence. A friend of mine was working as an assistant on a study into IQ, and how IQ tests are skewed based on biases. An example he gave me was a selection of a horse, a hamster, a chicken and a shovel. Which one is the odd one out? To many the answer is the shovel, because it isn't an animal. But where I live (Africa), the odd one out is the hamster, because you can't earn money with it. As usual, the tech industry is overselling itself. (It has to in the modern day, to keep up with the need for quarterly earnings reports) These technologies are being used for the lowest common denominators, as opposed to being used primarily where they are valuable: problem solving. The use of AI to more rapidly identify a cancer and the best associated treatment is the kind of thing that benefits most. Processing of huge datasets at a speed that humans can't perform at. Art / creativity is not a dataset. |
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 24, 2024 2:15:38 GMT -6
I was trying Sumo again (showing my son who’s a Computer Science Masters student) and I realised what’s so wrong with it. It’s literally mindless creation - it’s sophisticated randomised doodling. An ultra high speed version of a million monkeys for a billion years at a million typewriters - waiting for Shakespeare - only in theory will it happen - in reality mindless creation. We create music my identifying those moments that send a tingle down our spine, we make choices based on a visceral physical reaction. Sumo (and it’s like) is spineless, soulless musical doodling. It’s the veneer of creativity yet truly mindless. It will never improve. It will never grow a spine to make tingle I work in tech, and I have always argued that what AI lacks completely is both Context and Intent. Contrary to what we are all lead to believe in the modern world, there are sufficient studies to show that no matter how logical we think our decisions are, without emotional impetus we can't make decisions. (Studies performed on people who have suffered damage to the portions of their brain where most emotional processing takes place.) The other problem with AI is that we don't really know how to quantify intelligence. A friend of mine was working as an assistant on a study into IQ, and how IQ tests are skewed based on biases. An example he gave me was a selection of a horse, a hamster, a chicken and a shovel. Which one is the odd one out? To many the answer is the shovel, because it isn't an animal. But where I live (Africa), the odd one out is the hamster, because you can't earn money with it. As usual, the tech industry is overselling itself. (It has to in the modern day, to keep up with the need for quarterly earnings reports) These technologies are being used for the lowest common denominators, as opposed to being used primarily where they are valuable: problem solving. The use of AI to more rapidly identify a cancer and the best associated treatment is the kind of thing that benefits most. Processing of huge datasets at a speed that humans can't perform at. Art / creativity is not a dataset. Extremely well said. Great post. This is brilliantly worded "Art / creativity is not a dataset" |
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Post by chessparov on Apr 24, 2024 9:48:27 GMT -6
Ask a 20 year old what the world was like without the internet or a smart phone or streaming services or TikTok and they’ll look at you like you’re some kind of relic from the Stone Age. If they even know what the Stone Age was. Otherwise Mick and Keef are still kicking around. Literally. |
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Post by rowmat on Apr 24, 2024 20:42:30 GMT -6
Ask a 20 year old what the world was like without the internet or a smart phone or streaming services or TikTok and they’ll look at you like you’re some kind of relic from the Stone Age. If they even know what the Stone Age was. Otherwise Mick and Keef are still kicking around. Literally. 60 years of mind altering substances have probably scared the Grim Reaper away. |
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Post by bossanova on Apr 24, 2024 20:48:24 GMT -6
Been messing with it, its impressive how spot on it is re-creating the mainstream sound. In the "Pop" section the submissions are spot on especially in the female voices. Feel like I've heard 50+ female pop singers sound exactly like that at this point. Sad, whispery, pouty, intimate, young female voice, singing pop. Man has that been done to fucking death I don't think it is going to be threatening to serious musicians and creatives, at least for like - maybe another 5 years**. Now as for those "songwriters" the labels all have sitting in their "lets write a lowest common denominator smash" echo chamber circles - those jobs are going to the wind. Only the most potent forms of nepotism on offer will be their salvation. What I'm interested in is using it sort of as a drum machine or bass line generator for whatever the hell you can type in and using as a songwriting tool, if it ever developes that functionality. Not yet sure how I feel about that ethically, but that was my first thought when playing with it *5 years being a total shot in the dark, who knows how advanced it could get That's kind of what I already use Band in a Box for, though without the text prompting, of course. |
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Post by drbill on Apr 24, 2024 20:59:59 GMT -6
Made me think I'd have another 4-5 years to decide whether to bother doing anything with audio. But who knows when AI will be able to apply classic production styles to something someone recorded. There's certainly a lot to think about. Current thoughts from the coders are that we essentially have 6 years +/- until life as we know it is completely turned upside down. This is not just music, but society in general. Seems a bit quick, but the last 6 months of song AI has progressed exponentially, no matter what the naysayers may say. Buckle up. |
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Post by christopher on Apr 24, 2024 22:27:39 GMT -6
Maybe. The raw materials for the tech is a big issue. And the current model of massive farms where each startup has to pay to play is preventing a faster spread. They always think on paper the next generation of chips in 6 years will blow away everything, but by the time it’s made they are stripped way back of performance goals. And it’s the motherboards/servers that are using tens of thousands of parts for these things. Imagine the headache when some part is only made in a certain country that isn’t playing nice. I do think we are heading to a very upside down world due to remote working and AV, it’s gonna be a wild world for my kids, probably with bosses in other countries on some sort of iPad. Because why pay middle managers?
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 25, 2024 2:03:55 GMT -6
Ask a 20 year old what the world was like without the internet or a smart phone or streaming services or TikTok and they’ll look at you like you’re some kind of relic from the Stone Age. If they even know what the Stone Age was. Otherwise Mick and Keef are still kicking around. Literally. Ah yes, The Strolling Bones. Bless em’ |
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Post by viciousbliss on Apr 25, 2024 4:41:34 GMT -6
Made me think I'd have another 4-5 years to decide whether to bother doing anything with audio. But who knows when AI will be able to apply classic production styles to something someone recorded. There's certainly a lot to think about. Current thoughts from the coders are that we essentially have 6 years +/- until life as we know it is completely turned upside down. This is not just music, but society in general. Seems a bit quick, but the last 6 months of song AI has progressed exponentially, no matter what the naysayers may say. Buckle up. One of these days I have to get around to finishing the "Life in 2030" vid from Matt Griffin on Youtube. Quality of life now is worse than two decades ago in some ways. Seems that for a lot of people we need this technological revolution just to have access to some basic things again. Probably a lot of better stuff will happen too. Quite daunting to consider the big picture, things definitely have to be managed carefully. |
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Post by drbill on Apr 25, 2024 9:12:01 GMT -6
Quite daunting to consider the big picture, things definitely have to be managed carefully. Who are we trusting to manage things carefully?  |
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Post by chessparov on Apr 25, 2024 11:38:26 GMT -6
The Stones and Styx are working out a.. Styx and Stones "Break Your Bones" 2026 Tour.
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Post by viciousbliss on Apr 25, 2024 15:32:57 GMT -6
Quite daunting to consider the big picture, things definitely have to be managed carefully. Who are we trusting to manage things carefully? Hopefully some people much better than we have in our current world governments...hah |
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Post by drbill on Apr 25, 2024 17:01:19 GMT -6
Who are we trusting to manage things carefully? Hopefully some people much better than we have in our current world governments...hah If you don't mind, I'm not going to hold my breath, OK? The feds can't seem to figure out the simplest of things - and AI? Pffft. It will take them a century to figure out the basics, and by then who knows where we are.... |
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Post by ericn on Apr 25, 2024 19:22:52 GMT -6
The Stones and Styx are working out a.. Styx and Stones "Break Your Bones" 2026 Tour. Sponsored by Tums, don’t be Styx and Stones don’t break your bones. |
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Post by viciousbliss on Apr 25, 2024 23:57:35 GMT -6
Hopefully some people much better than we have in our current world governments...hah If you don't mind, I'm not going to hold my breath, OK? The feds can't seem to figure out the simplest of things - and AI? Pffft. It will take them a century to figure out the basics, and by then who knows where we are.... Might be down to people like Kurzweil and other futurists. It's almost something that can't be controlled via legislation. But when the tech inevitably exists to end resource scarcity, fix psych problems that cause criminal impulses, provide basically free housing and energy, and cure or prevent most any medical problem including aging, what do you really need an imposing government for? Once people start augmenting their brains to become radically more intelligent, who is going to want to start wars? Even visionary filmmakers have never understood technology. They create these movies about the future but still leave a lot of 20th century limitations in them. Star Wars cracks me up like that, especially now that they're showing stuff that's taken place thousands of years before the first movies. In that universe technology just stopped advancing and everything was largely the same for thousands of years. You have space ships with lightspeed, advanced cybernetics, laser weapons, carbon freezing, extremely advanced AI in robots, all this stuff, but they still age and no one has anything resembling a cell phone. |
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Post by rowmat on Apr 26, 2024 0:12:24 GMT -6
Quite daunting to consider the big picture, things definitely have to be managed carefully. Who are we trusting to manage things carefully? Better give Dave Bowman a call. He’s had some experience dealing with out of control AI. 😜 |
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Post by christopher on Apr 26, 2024 9:07:05 GMT -6
The AI in 1968 was really good! Man, always impressed with the video and audio. The breathing sound is perfect. I think that background noise helps
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Post by viciousbliss on Apr 26, 2024 19:27:03 GMT -6
The new Motley song is supposedly heavily reliant on AI. Some have said they hired Bob Rock largely due to his being able to enhance stuff with AI. Based on what I'm hearing, it sounds like it could be AI. It sorta sounds like a song, but it also sounds too rudimentary. Like there's a streak of creativity that's missing. But modern music is so fake that it can be hard to tell the difference. I mean, all these fake instruments that have been put in perfect time by a DAW. Fake vocals, unnaturally perfect pitch. Then following the same corporate formulas. It's assembly line music made for AI to have little issues duplicating. Maybe this is the future of audio? Being able to setup AI to recreate things when the bands are no longer willing and/or able to do them?
If this is the way things are gonna go, then I could see musicians and engineers once again trying to go back and do things organically. Like the mentality behind the Terrifier movies. It was all about doing things with practical effects and trying to ditch all the modern excesses without worrying about making a ton of money. I think people are looking to take back their entertainment from these soulless corporate machines. Maybe we'll get back to this 1990s mentality when it comes to some genres of music. Those bands weren't making a lot of money, but we got albums like Symbolic, Storm Of The Light's Bane, Down, Mandylion, Something Wicked, Anthems, Nexus Polaris, Domination, Voodoo, Morningrise, just all this stuff where they were motivated. The drive was there to take on the soulless corporate behemoth of MTV.
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Post by mike on Apr 29, 2024 19:14:48 GMT -6
Sharing this conversation today on AI from Taxi FWIW. Skipping past the first five minutes of pleasantries the deeper it goes, the more I heard some things I was not aware of as governing bodies try to play catch up with AI.
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 30, 2024 12:32:19 GMT -6
Yes, we are currently being invaded by AI, and probably that's the end of the music business as we have known it, as with all the other arts.
Yes, we are now officially "obsolete", as we need to be paid.
It's primitive now, but wait a minute.....
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Post by rowmat on May 1, 2024 23:06:05 GMT -6
I think where Rick Beato missed the point is AI won’t mean the end of people playing music but it will seriously affect their ability to earn even a basic living from it.
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Post by ironinthepath on May 2, 2024 20:09:33 GMT -6
If everything in the Cold Fusion video comes to fruition in the estimated time-frame, I am also wondering what that means for gear hoarders like myself - in the near term (5 years, maybe) do we just expect demand for all this (already niche) stuff to tank?
I'm having fun in the meantime, so will likely just put my head in the sand, but many of us have sunk a sizable chunk of change into this art/field/profession/hobby - definitely a concern.
When I posted that original Udio sample, I figured it would be of interest but it seems to have "struck a chord" a bit more than I would have guessed - makes sense though, now that I'm getting a feel for how AI really is going to impact the world in such a dominant way (at least eventually).
Thanks for all the interesting opinions/posts.
-Chris
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