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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 1, 2024 8:31:09 GMT -6
I'm demo-ing the Softube Vintage Amproom suite right now because I needed a clean amp tone for an Americana project. I feel like I've FINALLY found a clean amp sim with headroom. The Vox and Fender models work.
I like the UAD Fender '55 plugin that I have but the line between clean and fuzz is so tiny. It's very difficult to dial it in. The Dream sounds great to me but I'm a bit concerned that I saw some reviews on the UAD site indicating that it has the same problem in that it goes from clean to driven with like one tiny twist of a knob.
Hard to get my head around paying $99 to Softube for what is basically a one-trick pony amp sim (I'll never use the other stuff that goes with amp room). At this point with "pick three" UAD is a better deal, but is it a better sim?
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 1, 2024 8:41:21 GMT -6
ya, at $30 a pop hard to say no!
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Post by Quint on Nov 1, 2024 8:42:27 GMT -6
I'm demo-ing the Softube Vintage Amproom suite right now because I needed a clean amp tone for an Americana project. I feel like I've FINALLY found a clean amp sim with headroom. The Vox and Fender models work. I like the UAD Fender '55 plugin that I have but the line between clean and fuzz is so tiny. It's very difficult to dial it in. The Dream sounds great to me but I'm a bit concerned that I saw some reviews on the UAD site indicating that it has the same problem in that it goes from clean to driven with like one tiny twist of a knob. Hard to get my head around paying $99 to Softube for what is basically a one-trick pony amp sim (I'll never use the other stuff that goes with amp room). At this point with "pick three" UAD is a better deal, but is it a better sim? This is one of several, but maybe the biggest, reasons that I completely gave up on amp sim plugins. The gain staging just always seems to be janky. Why is it that I can turn up the gain on a real amp, and hit that perfect edge of breakup spot so easy, but the damn amp sim plugins are just so hard to do the same thing with? And it's not that I'm super anti digital amp sim either. There are amp sims in standalone boxes, like the Strymon, that are just about as easy to gain stage as a real amp, but the damn plugins, not so much. I gave up. Also, I just wanna turn some knobs. Mousing around to gain stage an "amp" just feels so uninspiring. |
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Post by phantom on Nov 1, 2024 9:44:07 GMT -6
I think the gain staging on these UA plugins are pretty straight foward.
For example, I can get very clean sounds with the Dream, and humbuckers, by lowering the Input knob to Line level. Ans btw, I'm not using my interface with all the gain turned down, it's actually at a pretty healthy level.
That's all you need to do. Lower the Input knob. Then Dream will have plenty of clean headroom.
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Post by Quint on Nov 1, 2024 9:56:03 GMT -6
I think the gain staging on these UA plugins are pretty straight foward. For example, I can get very clean sounds with the Dream, and humbuckers, by lowering the Input knob to Line level. Ans btw, I'm not using my interface with all the gain turned down, it's actually at a pretty healthy level. That's all you need to do. Lower the Input knob. Then Dream will have plenty of clean headroom. I've not tried these UAFX plugins, so maybe they're easier to use, but the UAD Fender Tweed just sucked IMO, in this context. When it comes to guitar amps, anything that requires "thought" is more than I care to do. I want caveman brain type operation. Turn the chicken head and go. If I'm going to replace a real amp with a sim, I need it to operate just as simple as the real thing. |
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Post by phantom on Nov 1, 2024 10:13:50 GMT -6
I think the gain staging on these UA plugins are pretty straight foward. For example, I can get very clean sounds with the Dream, and humbuckers, by lowering the Input knob to Line level. Ans btw, I'm not using my interface with all the gain turned down, it's actually at a pretty healthy level. That's all you need to do. Lower the Input knob. Then Dream will have plenty of clean headroom. I've not tried these UAFX plugins, so maybe they're easier to use, but the UAD Fender Tweed just sucked IMO, in this context. When it comes to guitar amps, anything that requires "thought" is more than I care to do. I want caveman brain type operation. Turn the chicken head and go. If I'm going to replace a real amp with a sim, I need it to operate just as simple as the real thing. The thing is, you need to gain stage correctly. Depending on your interface, and how your gain knob is set on your interface, it will be like having a big booster before your amp. Hit an amp with 10dbs louder than it's expecting and you'll see how hard it's to have good headroom. Unfortunately, with plugins, how hard you'll hit the plugin differs a lot from rig to rig. So you can't be totally brainless about it. That's the nature of the thing. Once you passed that, I do believe that setting a tone with the UAD plugins are as easy as working with a real amp. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 1, 2024 10:14:14 GMT -6
You likely won’t like the ua connect part, but you can put authorities on ilok and normally computer.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 1, 2024 10:37:21 GMT -6
I've not tried these UAFX plugins, so maybe they're easier to use, but the UAD Fender Tweed just sucked IMO, in this context. When it comes to guitar amps, anything that requires "thought" is more than I care to do. I want caveman brain type operation. Turn the chicken head and go. If I'm going to replace a real amp with a sim, I need it to operate just as simple as the real thing. The thing is, you need to gain stage correctly. Depending on your interface, and how your gain knob is set on your interface, it will be like having a big booster before your amp. Hit an amp with 10dbs louder than it's expecting and you'll see how hard it's to have good headroom. Unfortunately, with plugins, how hard you'll hit the plugin differs a lot from rig to rig. So you can't be totally brainless about it. That's the nature of the thing. Once you passed that, I do believe that setting a tone with the UAD plugins are as easy as working with a real amp. I don't know if that's the issue with the UAD Fender Tweed. I've had it for a while and I've fiddled with gain staging and input volume and all kinds of things. In fact I have to do that in order to get the sounds I want. BUT. Once I do it STILL only has a range from like 2 - 3 on the gain knob that is usable. As Quint said, I don't get it. All the tube amps I own have like 50% or more of the knob travel to dial in various nuances of breakup. Change from 2-3 or 5-6 should be imperceptible. Not so with UAD Fender Tweed. Actually, that is true with the Softube Vintage suite which is why I like it so far. I feel like I can gain stage the amps and tweak the knobs just like I would on the real versions that I own. |
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Post by Dan on Nov 1, 2024 10:52:38 GMT -6
I'm demo-ing the Softube Vintage Amproom suite right now because I needed a clean amp tone for an Americana project. I feel like I've FINALLY found a clean amp sim with headroom. The Vox and Fender models work. I like the UAD Fender '55 plugin that I have but the line between clean and fuzz is so tiny. It's very difficult to dial it in. The Dream sounds great to me but I'm a bit concerned that I saw some reviews on the UAD site indicating that it has the same problem in that it goes from clean to driven with like one tiny twist of a knob. Hard to get my head around paying $99 to Softube for what is basically a one-trick pony amp sim (I'll never use the other stuff that goes with amp room). At this point with "pick three" UAD is a better deal, but is it a better sim? UAD didn't clean up the scuzz but fucked with the knobs to reduce deadzones that are important for the real world use of the amps as tools to get a variety of sounds, pick harder, use the volume knob on the guitar, stomp on boosts, to get a variety of sounds. Everything on them has to be set by ear or by using an analyzer to match something else with trims and volumes. |
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Post by phantom on Nov 1, 2024 11:02:28 GMT -6
The thing is, you need to gain stage correctly. Depending on your interface, and how your gain knob is set on your interface, it will be like having a big booster before your amp. Hit an amp with 10dbs louder than it's expecting and you'll see how hard it's to have good headroom. Unfortunately, with plugins, how hard you'll hit the plugin differs a lot from rig to rig. So you can't be totally brainless about it. That's the nature of the thing. Once you passed that, I do believe that setting a tone with the UAD plugins are as easy as working with a real amp. I don't know if that's the issue with the UAD Fender Tweed. I've had it for a while and I've fiddled with gain staging and input volume and all kinds of things. In fact I have to do that in order to get the sounds I want. BUT. Once I do it STILL only has a range from like 2 - 3 on the gain knob that is usable. As Quint said, I don't get it. All the tube amps I own have like 50% or more of the knob travel to dial in various nuances of breakup. Change from 2-3 or 5-6 should be imperceptible. Not so with UAD Fender Tweed. Actually, that is true with the Softube Vintage suite which is why I like it so far. I feel like I can gain stage the amps and tweak the knobs just like I would on the real versions that I own. I can fire it up and see exactly how it goes, but my Deluxe Reverb gets a lot dirtier before 5. Using humbuckers - my Les Paul with 57s most of the cases. And it's not that subtle. You go from clean to dirty with a small change on the knob. Passing 4 it's already "not clean at all". |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 1, 2024 11:03:20 GMT -6
I'm demo-ing the Softube Vintage Amproom suite right now because I needed a clean amp tone for an Americana project. I feel like I've FINALLY found a clean amp sim with headroom. The Vox and Fender models work. I like the UAD Fender '55 plugin that I have but the line between clean and fuzz is so tiny. It's very difficult to dial it in. The Dream sounds great to me but I'm a bit concerned that I saw some reviews on the UAD site indicating that it has the same problem in that it goes from clean to driven with like one tiny twist of a knob. Hard to get my head around paying $99 to Softube for what is basically a one-trick pony amp sim (I'll never use the other stuff that goes with amp room). At this point with "pick three" UAD is a better deal, but is it a better sim? UAD didn't clean up the scuzz but fucked with the knobs to reduce deadzones that are important for the real world use of the amps as tools to get a variety of sounds, pick harder, use the volume knob on the guitar, stomp on boosts, to get a variety of sounds. Everything on them has to be set by ear or by using an analyzer to match something else with trims and volumes. Exactly. The UAD Fender Tweed sounds great but it is so hard to get it there. Deadzones are what makes an amp tweakable. Softube's Vox on the other hand has knobs where it's like "wait, is this doing anything?" Which is EXACTLY like a real Vox. |
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Post by doubledog on Nov 1, 2024 11:10:40 GMT -6
I had a mediocre time with the UA Fender Tweed too, but the Plugin Alliance Bassdude sometimes is just right (and the price is pretty alright when on sale - seen it as low as $9.99). |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 1, 2024 11:17:29 GMT -6
I had a mediocre time with the UA Fender Tweed too, but the Plugin Alliance Bassdude sometimes is just right (and the price is pretty alright when on sale - seen it as low as $9.99). bx_bassdude seems to find its way onto a lot of my mixes. I'm currently finishing a mix where I had used it to add a little grit to an acoustic piano part planning to do some different saturation later but you know what? It sounds great why change it. Seems to happen a lot with that plug. I put it on as a placeholder and then can never find a reason to take it off. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 1, 2024 11:33:21 GMT -6
I'm demo-ing the Softube Vintage Amproom suite right now because I needed a clean amp tone for an Americana project. I feel like I've FINALLY found a clean amp sim with headroom. The Vox and Fender models work. I like the UAD Fender '55 plugin that I have but the line between clean and fuzz is so tiny. It's very difficult to dial it in. The Dream sounds great to me but I'm a bit concerned that I saw some reviews on the UAD site indicating that it has the same problem in that it goes from clean to driven with like one tiny twist of a knob. Hard to get my head around paying $99 to Softube for what is basically a one-trick pony amp sim (I'll never use the other stuff that goes with amp room). At this point with "pick three" UAD is a better deal, but is it a better sim? I could never get anything decent out of the Tweed they have now. Tried a couple of times. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 1, 2024 11:36:45 GMT -6
Who freaking cares where it starts to breakup? Turn the knobs until it sounds good. When it gets there, stop. These plugs are excellent - if they don’t sound good to you, you’re doing something wrong. I really don’t mean that arrogantly or to be a jerk - it’s just a fact. They’re freaking excellent.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 1, 2024 11:37:06 GMT -6
I'm demo-ing the Softube Vintage Amproom suite right now because I needed a clean amp tone for an Americana project. I feel like I've FINALLY found a clean amp sim with headroom. The Vox and Fender models work. I like the UAD Fender '55 plugin that I have but the line between clean and fuzz is so tiny. It's very difficult to dial it in. The Dream sounds great to me but I'm a bit concerned that I saw some reviews on the UAD site indicating that it has the same problem in that it goes from clean to driven with like one tiny twist of a knob. Hard to get my head around paying $99 to Softube for what is basically a one-trick pony amp sim (I'll never use the other stuff that goes with amp room). At this point with "pick three" UAD is a better deal, but is it a better sim? I could never get anything decent out of the Tweed they have now. Tried a couple of times. You have to really futz with it. |
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Post by phantom on Nov 1, 2024 11:47:06 GMT -6
Who freaking cares where it starts to breakup? Turn the knobs until it sounds good. When it gets there, stop. These plugs are excellent - if they don’t sound good to you, you’re doing something wrong. I really don’t mean that arrogantly or to be a jerk - it’s just a fact. They’re freaking excellent. I also don't get it. - Oh my god, it's too overdriven! - Have you tried lowering the Gain knob or the Big Input knob on the GUI? I really don't think that's "hard". It's the bare minimum one needs to do for every plugin. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 1, 2024 12:04:36 GMT -6
Who freaking cares where it starts to breakup? Turn the knobs until it sounds good. When it gets there, stop. These plugs are excellent - if they don’t sound good to you, you’re doing something wrong. I really don’t mean that arrogantly or to be a jerk - it’s just a fact. They’re freaking excellent. Well I haven't tried the Dream yet. But the Tweed took a LOT of knob turning is my point. And often never got there. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 1, 2024 12:05:38 GMT -6
Who freaking cares where it starts to breakup? Turn the knobs until it sounds good. When it gets there, stop. These plugs are excellent - if they don’t sound good to you, you’re doing something wrong. I really don’t mean that arrogantly or to be a jerk - it’s just a fact. They’re freaking excellent. I also don't get it. - Oh my god, it's too overdriven! - Have you tried lowering the Gain knob or the Big Input knob on the GUI? I really don't think that's "hard". It's the bare minimum one needs to do for every plugin. I don't know. I've been gain staging amps for like 30 years. I guess it could be me but it could be the Tweed plugin. I've not had this problem with any other plugin. |
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Post by Quint on Nov 1, 2024 12:05:48 GMT -6
I've not tried these UAFX plugins, so maybe they're easier to use, but the UAD Fender Tweed just sucked IMO, in this context. When it comes to guitar amps, anything that requires "thought" is more than I care to do. I want caveman brain type operation. Turn the chicken head and go. If I'm going to replace a real amp with a sim, I need it to operate just as simple as the real thing. The thing is, you need to gain stage correctly. Depending on your interface, and how your gain knob is set on your interface, it will be like having a big booster before your amp. Hit an amp with 10dbs louder than it's expecting and you'll see how hard it's to have good headroom. Unfortunately, with plugins, how hard you'll hit the plugin differs a lot from rig to rig. So you can't be totally brainless about it. That's the nature of the thing. Once you passed that, I do believe that setting a tone with the UAD plugins are as easy as working with a real amp. I hear what you're saying, and I understand all of that. But that's just totally not the sort of thing I want to be dealing with in that scenario. So I just choose to not use amp sim plugins. It's a workflow thing as much as anything, I suppose. And I'd maintain that the UAD Fender Tweed, in particular, is a finicky bastard to gain stage. The UAD Fender Tweed amp sim, as much as any of the plugin sims, is what pushed me away from plugin amp sims. It was a total buzz kill trying to dial that thing in. Maybe there are other plugin amp sims out there that would work better for me. I don't know, but I kind of just moved on from them and I'm happy just using a real amp or amp in a box pedals like the Strymon when a real amp won't work. And the bonus here is that I also don't ever have to worry about latency, and get to turn real knobs. Those are all things that make the experience better, from my perspective. |
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 1, 2024 12:18:16 GMT -6
I'm demo-ing the Softube Vintage Amproom suite right now because I needed a clean amp tone for an Americana project. I feel like I've FINALLY found a clean amp sim with headroom. The Vox and Fender models work. I like the UAD Fender '55 plugin that I have but the line between clean and fuzz is so tiny. It's very difficult to dial it in. The Dream sounds great to me but I'm a bit concerned that I saw some reviews on the UAD site indicating that it has the same problem in that it goes from clean to driven with like one tiny twist of a knob. Hard to get my head around paying $99 to Softube for what is basically a one-trick pony amp sim (I'll never use the other stuff that goes with amp room). At this point with "pick three" UAD is a better deal, but is it a better sim? This is one of several, but maybe the biggest, reasons that I completely gave up on amp sim plugins. The gain staging just always seems to be janky. Why is it that I can turn up the gain on a real amp, and hit that perfect edge of breakup spot so easy, but the damn amp sim plugins are just so hard to do the same thing with? And it's not that I'm super anti digital amp sim either. There are amp sims in standalone boxes, like the Strymon, that are just about as easy to gain stage as a real amp, but the damn plugins, not so much. I gave up. Also, I just wanna turn some knobs. Mousing around to gain stage an "amp" just feels so uninspiring. Pretty echos my feelings. Aside from the latency that I can’t stand - it makes me feel like I’m slightly playing through custard. My beef is similar to yours, edge of break up and picking dynamics are what make a great tube amp great. It’s, tubes, caps, transistors not 0’s and 1’s that connect a player to his tone - imho. And it you use an analog pedal board as I do, then you also loose that organic sound of kicking in a lovely OD pedal and just goosing the front end of your tube amp and making it sing and sustain. Amp sims have their uses (great for laptop mobile writing sessions) and I’m a fan of S- Gear v3 and Dream 65 is pretty good too - but personally I wouldn’t use them for keeper tracks or where performance is important. |
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Post by phantom on Nov 1, 2024 12:22:36 GMT -6
So, the problem is with the nature of guitar amp plugins, right?
Yeah, so it's clear not the product for you guys. And I completely understand that.
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Post by Quint on Nov 1, 2024 12:34:40 GMT -6
So, the problem is with the nature of guitar amp plugins, right? Yeah, so it's clear not the product for you guys. And I completely understand that. Yeah, that's it in a nutshell. Funny thing is, were it not for how I'm generally feeling about UA these days, I probably would have totally eventually tried out one or more of the hardware UAFX amp sim pedals. Now, I doubt I ever will though, regardless of how people say they sound. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 1, 2024 13:04:40 GMT -6
So, the problem is with the nature of guitar amp plugins, right? Yeah, so it's clear not the product for you guys. And I completely understand that. Basically yeah. Although I was recently surprised by Softube's Vintage Amp room. And that's why I was asking about Dream because the demos seem like it's got lots of head room but I'm seeing some user reviews saying it's more like Tweed. Also in my case I never play through amp sims. (EDIT ok I guess I sometimes throw on some very low resource sim like bx_bassdude if I'm doing scratch parts) I use amp sims as an alternative to re-amping. So I'm usually taking a miked amp and a direct line in parallel. Most times the miked amp doesn't sound great in the scratch because I'm more worried about isolation than tone (I don't have an amp room unfortunately). So when I have a great live guitar take but a so-so tone I start looking at re-amping. But before I do that I always try some amp sims to see if I can save some time. That's my use case. And in my genre (and personal taste) clean tones with a bit of bite are the thing. I'm less concerned about latency and lag and all that stuff and much more concerned about how the sim responds to the performance that I've already captured. |
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Post by phantom on Nov 1, 2024 16:37:21 GMT -6
So, the problem is with the nature of guitar amp plugins, right? Yeah, so it's clear not the product for you guys. And I completely understand that. Basically yeah. Although I was recently surprised by Softube's Vintage Amp room. And that's why I was asking about Dream because the demos seem like it's got lots of head room but I'm seeing some user reviews saying it's more like Tweed. Also in my case I never play through amp sims. (EDIT ok I guess I sometimes throw on some very low resource sim like bx_bassdude if I'm doing scratch parts) I use amp sims as an alternative to re-amping. So I'm usually taking a miked amp and a direct line in parallel. Most times the miked amp doesn't sound great in the scratch because I'm more worried about isolation than tone (I don't have an amp room unfortunately). So when I have a great live guitar take but a so-so tone I start looking at re-amping. But before I do that I always try some amp sims to see if I can save some time. That's my use case. And in my genre (and personal taste) clean tones with a bit of bite are the thing. I'm less concerned about latency and lag and all that stuff and much more concerned about how the sim responds to the performance that I've already captured. Dream indeed has low headroom. But I don't think that the real amp is much different. What happens is that with the real amp, it's already loud af before it starts breaking (volume at 3 is more or less the max volume of the amp, after that it just gets dirtier). But if you record a Deluxe Reverb through a load box, you'll see that it's very easy to overdrive the thing. Another reason, like everyone already discussed, is that Dream doesn't have the 1 position of the real amp (that it's basically off). I believe that 1 on Dream is like 2 on the amp. But this problem is a lot worse on the pedal. With the plugin you basically can decide how hard you'll hit it with the input knob or lowering the input before the plugin. |
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