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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 1, 2024 17:09:01 GMT -6
Who freaking cares where it starts to breakup? Turn the knobs until it sounds good. When it gets there, stop. These plugs are excellent - if they don’t sound good to you, you’re doing something wrong. I really don’t mean that arrogantly or to be a jerk - it’s just a fact. They’re freaking excellent. Well I haven't tried the Dream yet. But the Tweed took a LOT of knob turning is my point. And often never got there. The tweed is probably 10 years old. Not inn the same league
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 1, 2024 17:09:37 GMT -6
I also don't get it. - Oh my god, it's too overdriven! - Have you tried lowering the Gain knob or the Big Input knob on the GUI? I really don't think that's "hard". It's the bare minimum one needs to do for every plugin. I don't know. I've been gain staging amps for like 30 years. I guess it could be me but it could be the Tweed plugin. I've not had this problem with any other plugin. It has zero headroom and sounds like shit. I've TRIED to like it...but it sounds like a shitty papery radio...in a bad way. I want the shitty papery sound in a good way. But I can't imagine the Woodrow sounds anything like that plug. If it does, I won't be using it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 1, 2024 17:13:49 GMT -6
This is one of several, but maybe the biggest, reasons that I completely gave up on amp sim plugins. The gain staging just always seems to be janky. Why is it that I can turn up the gain on a real amp, and hit that perfect edge of breakup spot so easy, but the damn amp sim plugins are just so hard to do the same thing with? And it's not that I'm super anti digital amp sim either. There are amp sims in standalone boxes, like the Strymon, that are just about as easy to gain stage as a real amp, but the damn plugins, not so much. I gave up. Also, I just wanna turn some knobs. Mousing around to gain stage an "amp" just feels so uninspiring. Pretty echos my feelings. Aside from the latency that I can’t stand - it makes me feel like I’m slightly playing through custard. My beef is similar to yours, edge of break up and picking dynamics are what make a great tube amp great. It’s, tubes, caps, transistors not 0’s and 1’s that connect a player to his tone - imho. And it you use an analog pedal board as I do, then you also loose that organic sound of kicking in a lovely OD pedal and just goosing the front end of your tube amp and making it sing and sustain. Amp sims have their uses (great for laptop mobile writing sessions) and I’m a fan of S- Gear v3 and Dream 65 is pretty good too - but personally I wouldn’t use them for keeper tracks or where performance is important. Have you ACTUALLY tried them?
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 1, 2024 17:15:32 GMT -6
So, the problem is with the nature of guitar amp plugins, right? Yeah, so it's clear not the product for you guys. And I completely understand that. Yeah, that's it in a nutshell. Funny thing is, were it not for how I'm generally feeling about UA these days, I probably would have totally eventually tried out one or more of the hardware UAFX amp sim pedals. Now, I doubt I ever will though, regardless of how people say they sound. oh well.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 1, 2024 17:49:11 GMT -6
Well I haven't tried the Dream yet. But the Tweed took a LOT of knob turning is my point. And often never got there. The tweed is probably 10 years old. Not inn the same league Fair enough. Sounds like it's worth a demo.
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Post by Dan on Nov 1, 2024 17:50:08 GMT -6
I don't know. I've been gain staging amps for like 30 years. I guess it could be me but it could be the Tweed plugin. I've not had this problem with any other plugin. It has zero headroom and sounds like shit. I've TRIED to like it...but it sounds like a shitty papery radio...in a bad way. I want the shitty papery sound in a good way. But I can't imagine the Woodrow sounds anything like that plug. If it does, I won't be using it. The fuse tweed is the best one I’ve used. Ray also made the black rooster tiny terror. I prefer both with celestion shaper. Same with the uad lion! I’ll buy it and the vox when they’re 30 bucks. Next amp sim purchase is the softube Kerry king which I didn’t grasp until recently
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Post by veggieryan on Nov 1, 2024 18:02:42 GMT -6
The UAFX plugins are now 36.33 each when you buy all 3.
The volume knob is what initially threw me off with the Dream plugin. If you want it work like a real Deluxe at 3 you basically start with the plugin all the way down at 1 especially if you play with high output pickups.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Nov 1, 2024 18:27:10 GMT -6
OK, so I've been following this thread, but I'm a bit confused? (although this isn't the first time!)
So besides the input level thing, and sonics, which have both fans, and not so much, I'm wondering if the latency of these plugs are enough that they cannot be used comfortably while tracking (in my case with LUNA) Then what can you use them for?
What good are they?
S'plain Lucy, S'plain...
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Post by veggieryan on Nov 1, 2024 18:37:46 GMT -6
If you have an interface with good low latency drivers then they are usable.
Generally speaking sensitive players can feel about 5 ms total latency. Others are fine up to more like 10 ms.
Latency is more noticeable when monitoring on headphones versus speakers.
These plugins do add latency... 75 samples for Dream, 145 samples for Lion, 152 for Ruby.
For context: The UAFX physical pedals like all digital pedals have about 2 ms latency each so if you chain 3 of those you are already at about 6 ms....
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 2, 2024 2:30:10 GMT -6
Interesting shoot out: amp, pedal and plug,
Intro is a little casual , but he does blind takes a minute or so in, reveals afterwards.
Friedman plexi, lion pedal and plug
So think Marshall:)
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Post by phantom on Nov 2, 2024 7:34:51 GMT -6
Apparently he was using the OX box with the Friedman, and he had process applied, like a high shelf on the OX.
And, it's 2 different amps - Marshall and Friedman.
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Post by Dan on Nov 2, 2024 7:37:43 GMT -6
Interesting shoot out: amp, pedal and plug, Intro is a little casual , but he does blind takes a minute or so in, reveals afterwards. Friedman plexi, lion pedal and plug So think Marshall:) The difference is obvious. He’s playing with the boost on that emulates a preamp and then an eq pedal. He made the plug higher gain than the real amp.
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Post by Dan on Nov 2, 2024 7:42:11 GMT -6
Apparently he was using the OX box with the Friedman, and he had process applied, like a high shelf on the OX. And, it's 2 different amps - Marshall and Friedman. it’s a Friedman clone of a plexi. He’s not using a straight Marshall on the uad one because he didn’t bother to turn off the boost. Once you shove a pedal in front of them, they’re very different. If he wanted to just explore what he could get out of a straight plexi, he’d have to start jumping the channels and such and playing around, which he didn’t do and went straight into 80s tones with the built in boost. It doesn’t sound bad but it’s a pedal. Like Euge V on YouTube at least always uses a boss sd-1 but is honest about it.
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 2, 2024 7:54:41 GMT -6
I thought I preferred the ua pedal, except now I can buy all 3 ua plugs for $100 while one pedal is $400 used here:)
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 2, 2024 7:56:53 GMT -6
The UAFX plugins are now 36.33 each when you buy all 3. The volume knob is what initially threw me off with the Dream plugin. If you want it work like a real Deluxe at 3 you basically start with the plugin all the way down at 1 especially if you play with high output pickups. All depends on your pickups…my strat and tele are fine straight up. If I want super clean on the LP, I pull the input down.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 2, 2024 7:58:33 GMT -6
OK, so I've been following this thread, but I'm a bit confused? (although this isn't the first time!) So besides the input level thing, and sonics, which have both fans, and not so much, I'm wondering if the latency of these plugs are enough that they cannot be used comfortably while tracking (in my case with LUNA) Then what can you use them for? What good are they? S'plain Lucy, S'plain... There aren’t problems with the plug, just problems for people that haven’t bought a computer in ten years. Then they’re always the loudest on the internet complaining about how they’re resource hogs.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 2, 2024 8:04:42 GMT -6
I thought I preferred the ua pedal, except now I can buy all 3 ua plugs for $100 while one pedal is $400 used here:) I still haven’t built tracks with them yet, so I think that will be the ultimate judge of how much I end up loving them. They sound fantastic…but they are still a plug and might be a major pain when you’re trying to overdub on a 50 track mixed session…Mostly, I’ll just use these for my stuff…which is kinda rare…so having $100 invested instead of $1800 (axe) makes sense to me…I do miss that Vibroverb, though.
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Post by Dan on Nov 2, 2024 8:06:40 GMT -6
OK, so I've been following this thread, but I'm a bit confused? (although this isn't the first time!) So besides the input level thing, and sonics, which have both fans, and not so much, I'm wondering if the latency of these plugs are enough that they cannot be used comfortably while tracking (in my case with LUNA) Then what can you use them for? What good are they? S'plain Lucy, S'plain... There aren’t problems with the plug, just problems for people that haven’t bought a computer in ten years. Then they’re always the loudest on the internet complaining about how they’re resource hogs. You can just track at 192 kHz and quarter your latency… Wait their computers need a uad2 to use UAD plugs because they’re on a 10 year old Intel MacBook Pro can be used to fry an egg or gamer desktop pc with flashing lights. Like their computers would stall for 10 minutes if they even tried to open Softube amp room. My 10 year old laptop could run 1 goodhertz plug! 1-2 instances of the the Weiss DS1 without it crashing! It couldn’t run Pulsar 1178 at all with any oversampling.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 2, 2024 8:08:40 GMT -6
Apparently he was using the OX box with the Friedman, and he had process applied, like a high shelf on the OX. And, it's 2 different amps - Marshall and Friedman. it’s a Friedman clone of a plexi. He’s not using a straight Marshall on the uad one because he didn’t bother to turn off the boost. Once you shove a pedal in front of them, they’re very different. If he wanted to just explore what he could get out of a straight plexi, he’d have to start jumping the channels and such and playing around, which he didn’t do and went straight into 80s tones with the built in boost. It doesn’t sound bad but it’s a pedal. Like Euge V on YouTube at least always uses a boss sd-1 but is honest about it. The boost is not on
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Post by Dan on Nov 2, 2024 8:09:35 GMT -6
I thought I preferred the ua pedal, except now I can buy all 3 ua plugs for $100 while one pedal is $400 used here:) I still haven’t built tracks with them yet, so I think that will be the ultimate judge of how much I end up loving them. They sound fantastic…but they are still a plug and might be a major pain when you’re trying to overdub on a 50 track mixed session…Mostly, I’ll just use these for my stuff…which is kinda rare…so having $100 invested instead of $1800 (axe) makes sense to me…I do miss that Vibroverb, though. Just render out the monitor mix and punch in on a new session at a crazy high sample rate to minimize latency using just the sim. Easy. Render out the tracks, resample them, insert them back in the mix session. Or just insert the dis and put the sim on them to tweak in the mix session
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 2, 2024 8:10:32 GMT -6
I should demo a promo again. Been years. Although, I guess it’s the same brands as UA.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 2, 2024 8:15:12 GMT -6
I still haven’t built tracks with them yet, so I think that will be the ultimate judge of how much I end up loving them. They sound fantastic…but they are still a plug and might be a major pain when you’re trying to overdub on a 50 track mixed session…Mostly, I’ll just use these for my stuff…which is kinda rare…so having $100 invested instead of $1800 (axe) makes sense to me…I do miss that Vibroverb, though. Just render out the monitor mix and punch in on a new session at a crazy high sample rate to minimize latency using just the sim. Easy. Render out the tracks, resample them, insert them back in the mix session. Or just insert the dis and put the sim on them to tweak in the mix session Yeah I get it - but that’s way too many steps to be a consistent workflow. It’s totally doable even in big sessions. Most of my power suck is coming from the master channel…so if I just bypass that channel, I can usually get down to 128 without any issues. The goal one day is to get a computer I can just leave at 64 and move on. Btw, I can track in a small session at 64…but add el Capistan and it starts dropping occasionally
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 2, 2024 8:15:53 GMT -6
Tube amp had more gain. At least in the first example.
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Post by Dan on Nov 2, 2024 8:17:43 GMT -6
it’s a Friedman clone of a plexi. He’s not using a straight Marshall on the uad one because he didn’t bother to turn off the boost. Once you shove a pedal in front of them, they’re very different. If he wanted to just explore what he could get out of a straight plexi, he’d have to start jumping the channels and such and playing around, which he didn’t do and went straight into 80s tones with the built in boost. It doesn’t sound bad but it’s a pedal. Like Euge V on YouTube at least always uses a boss sd-1 but is honest about it. The boost is not on in that guy’s video it is. It’s on by default in the plug. Low gain boost models an EP booster. You think UAD wants to start off some random user with a straight plexi who expects screech and that staticy crunch? Same reason the softube amp room opens with some crazy elaborately processed setup and the neuraldsp models almost all have the acidic gain, fizzy highs, and the note compression sounds like a high gain amp set to sorta sound like one with less gain because that’s what the users expect.
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Post by phantom on Nov 2, 2024 8:19:10 GMT -6
The UAFX plugins are now 36.33 each when you buy all 3. The volume knob is what initially threw me off with the Dream plugin. If you want it work like a real Deluxe at 3 you basically start with the plugin all the way down at 1 especially if you play with high output pickups. All depends on your pickups…my strat and tele are fine straight up. If I want super clean on the LP, I pull the input down. It's that easy. But apparently, that's rocket science for the internet.
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