|
Post by Johnkenn on Nov 20, 2024 15:19:41 GMT -6
Somewhere I read they suggested you shouldn't use oversampling? Why not? I would think OS on the master would be good, right?
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Nov 21, 2024 9:59:41 GMT -6
Some of them have built in oversampling you can select. Others might go nuts like old Waves plugs if you oversample them enough.
If you want cleaner sound from one without oversampling, just use plugins that do. UAD and Softube channel strips have built in 4x oversampling. The newer Softube stuff post UAD often has more for certain functions and Klanghelm SDDR2 Desk in HQ+ and the LTL silver bullet plug are cool on busses. I even like vintage warmer tweaked in multi band mode on busses.
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Nov 21, 2024 10:44:39 GMT -6
Somewhere I read they suggested you shouldn't use oversampling? Why not? I would think OS on the master would be good, right? JK, I’d be curious to read that? imv oversampling is always a good thing unless it’s not a well designed plugin or your computer doesn’t have the processing power to handle the load. Any plug I own that has the option gets maxed out over sampling on instantiation, it’s never sounded bad to my ears, I’ve never gone back to shut them off later to see if I could hear a diff either, so?
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Nov 21, 2024 11:24:40 GMT -6
Some of them have built in oversampling you can select. Others might go nuts like old Waves plugs if you oversample them enough. If you want cleaner sound from one without oversampling, just use plugins that do. UAD and Softube channel strips have built in 4x oversampling. The newer Softube stuff post UAD often has more for certain functions and Klanghelm SDDR2 Desk in HQ+ and the LTL silver bullet plug are cool on busses. I even like vintage warmer tweaked in multi band mode on busses. I'm talking about the Console emus.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Nov 21, 2024 11:28:29 GMT -6
Somewhere I read they suggested you shouldn't use oversampling? Why not? I would think OS on the master would be good, right? JK, I’d be curious to read that? imv oversampling is always a good thing unless it’s not a well designed plugin or your computer doesn’t have the processing power to handle the load. Any plug I own that has the option gets maxed out over sampling on instantiation, it’s never sounded bad to my ears, I’ve never gone back to shut them off later to see if I could hear a diff either, so? I know I read that somewhere...now I can't find it, but I thought it was the Sonimus guys. The manual basically says it's better.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Nov 21, 2024 12:04:28 GMT -6
Well, I'm gonna try it for sure lol. Anyway - do I only need to turn on oversampling on the master channel? Or should I try and use like 2x OS on every channel? If there's a plugin at the end of the chain with oversampling, do I still need to instantiate it in the Console plug? If there's not much top end info or no distortion, do I need to use OS? I do swear I notice a difference when using OS on bass with Level or Unfairchild.
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Nov 21, 2024 12:22:01 GMT -6
All good Q's, My understanding of over sampling(admittedly limited) is it reduces truncation errors, aliasing digital artifacts due to errors at its designation, the reason they don't just make the plugins or channel strips with maxed out quality is so consumers don't complain that "it crushes my rig", if your rig can handle it I'd use it everywhere, if you hear something unpleasant shut it off. That said i'd be very interested to read some info by those who are more in the know than I..., Bob O probably has a book on it somewhere lol
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Nov 21, 2024 13:03:18 GMT -6
You don’t have to do anything you cannot hear. Aliasing is bad but it itself can often be inaudible when soloed other than affecting the depth in the stereo image.
These plugins aren’t well thought out. You shouldn’t even have to make this choice yourself. They should come oversampled enough for each part of it to minimize aliasing like uad2 or current softube or have a button to select “hq” or “insane” which you should do unless you have an ancient Mac on life support. Or be written to not have that many harmonics that can alias like the old waves renaissance compressor.
The circuit modeled compresors are producing infinite harmonics of infinite harmonics because they don’t really work in digital unless you want to run at insane sample rates into the mhz and melt CPUs. Ideal rectifier in the side chain is an absolute value function or a much smoother equivalent with less hard breaks like square root of x^2. Infinite harmonics no matter what. A true hard knee threshold for peak detection is nothing but a hard clipper. Infinite harmonics of infinite harmonics need theoretically infinite bandwidth or enough to accommodate it. Then add that you need to reconstruct the signal first to get the true peaks so oversampling and filtering is a must. Then vintage are all feedback so they need output = input * the gain reduction of the output. This is not instant in digital but has a one sample delay in digital so you need an iterative solver to arrive at an approximate enough solution to not misfire or mass oversampling to reduce the misfire in time. Compressors work very fast even if their gain reduction is slowed down by attack.
Then they do this and cram models of the circuit and parts in until the cpu melts. Sometimes they don’t even have this at all like the Waves CLA compressors, UAD1, or Softube’s og CL1b model. Cytomic the Glue only circuit models the side chain.
Meanwhile there have been smooth, pure digital compressors for over 25 years (Renaisssnce Compressor and Oxford Dynamics) the Weiss DS1 is ancient works as well as most analog ones. Now there are a ton of great compressors like the TDR ones, PSP Impressor, Powair, etc and you can add any distortion you like separately.
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Nov 21, 2024 13:14:11 GMT -6
All good Q's, My understanding of over sampling(admittedly limited) is it reduces truncation errors, aliasing digital artifacts due to errors at its designation, the reason they don't just make the plugins or channel strips with maxed out quality is so consumers don't complain that "it crushes my rig", if your rig can handle it I'd use it everywhere, if you hear something unpleasant shut it off. That said i'd be very interested to read some info by those who are more in the know than I..., Bob O probably has a book on it somewhere lol nothing truncates anymore beyond awful brainworx plugs. They’re all floating point now. The producers want to cram more circuit moduled strips than even existed in dmx’s ssl, the biggest ever console with over 100 channels, for a cloudrap or wannabe dance pop track while streaming. Nevermind that modeling a tube screamer takes an entire modern cpu performance core and that took Cytomic like 10 years to make efficient. These guys want to model consoles made from old synth parts like ssl when their computers cannot run the better vsti synths like u-he in f|_|cking FL studio. Clean digital stuff exists but they want to define their music as pure aesthetics because it’s not very interesting musically and they want to conform to a reality that doesnt exist anymore and never did. I write this having about 50 tascam 688 channels (fuse tcs-68) in a recent mix I did, modeled from a 10 channel mixer and 8 track cassette recorder. A really silly thing to do on my part that didn’t do anything for the sound compared to how distorted the client wanted it! The far more distorted Vintage Warmer, Decapitator, VQA-154, and the dulling caused by the MDWDRC were audible and got me there!
|
|