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Post by thehightenor on Nov 22, 2024 7:42:00 GMT -6
So when I was researching a new computer system for my main studio space my son pointed out that my new 13900K desktop needed a fancy
water cooling system to keep it near on silent as POWER = HEAT. "It's just physics Dad" he said .... he's a Science Masters graduate.
I said those M1 mac laptops are silent to which he pointed out yeah - but they can't run huge Cubase projects like your 13900K can .... that was true.
So now I come to buy a Macbook Pro with an M4 Max processor for my writing/teaching room - they are getting some serious power in there - and "woosh" the fans on this thing are frikkin' LOUD.
Seems that Apple haven't been able to beat the laws of physics - the Mac Mini wasn't much better when being properly pushed.
Mmmh .... I'm just a mouse click away from ordering a 16" 36GB 1TB M4 Max and I'm having a wobble!
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Post by doubledog on Nov 22, 2024 7:50:34 GMT -6
he's right - all that power equates to heat and the heat has to go somewhere
edit: I've noticed that my new Dell XPS 8960 sometimes revs up the fans but so far it has only been when I start zipping up old projects (for archiving, so they take up less space). I have not noticed it yet when tracking or mixing so that's good. My previous Dell XPS 8940 was always dead silent. The difference is mainly in the CPU. the 8940 had an i5-11400 which was 14nm process and 65W. For the 8960, I've got the i5-14600 and it is still base 65W, it can "turbo" up to 154W. The CPU technology also shrunk to half the size (it is the "Intel 7" aka 7nm process) so getting it all cooled is much more challenging. DDR5 memory (and I've only got 16GB) also runs hotter. But this is one of the reasons I don't go for the top of the heap - not to mention the current i7 and i9 CPUs have had some reported issues (that are supposedly fixed by BIOS updates but that usually means some kind of performance compromise!)... I don't need a fancy graphics card since it's just Pro Tools.
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 22, 2024 7:59:09 GMT -6
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Post by svart on Nov 22, 2024 8:34:48 GMT -6
The other physics part of this is..
You need surface area to radiate heat, and you need airflow to do it more effectively.
Since the boxes on these are really small, your surface area is constrained so you need to move more air to have effective heat removal.
The obvious answer would be to have a large heatsink and a large fan that turns fairly slowly. That would be as effective as a smaller heatsink and fan turning much faster but a lot quieter.
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Post by andersmv on Nov 22, 2024 8:48:32 GMT -6
I've been telling everyone with one room spaces to get the Mac Studio's. I've got an M2 Ultra Studio and the fan has yet to kick on for anything audio related I've done. The only time I've had the fan turn on is when I'm bouncing out huge videos from Davinci Resolve that are like over 30 minutes long, 6K footage rendered to 4K with lots of heavy color grading going on. When I render the final longer videos (that are ProRes and end up being over 100 GB), the fan does kick on pretty loud. Other than that, I never know the thing is there...
If you need silent/quiet macs in the room with you, the Studios are really the only choice. I've had two friends get M2 Max Laptops and purchased a nice cooling dock for them hoping that would keep the noise down enough. They both switched to Studio's within a month and have been happy.
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 22, 2024 9:18:26 GMT -6
I've been telling everyone with one room spaces to get the Mac Studio's. I've got an M2 Ultra Studio and the fan has yet to kick on for anything audio related I've done. The only time I've had the fan turn on is when I'm bouncing out huge videos from Davinci Resolve that are like over 30 minutes long, 6K footage rendered to 4K with lots of heavy color grading going on. When I render the final longer videos (that are ProRes and end up being over 100 GB), the fan does kick on pretty loud. Other than that, I never know the thing is there... If you need silent/quiet macs in the room with you, the Studios are really the only choice. I've had two friends get M2 Max Laptops and purchased a nice cooling dock for them hoping that would keep the noise down enough. They both switched to Studio's within a month and have been happy. That's an M2 these are M4's! I want an Apple laptop - I have a monster powerful (silent water cooled) PC workstation in my studio to run Cubase 14. Macbook are finally becoming really powerful with the M4 and now here comes the inevitable heat! |
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 22, 2024 9:20:51 GMT -6
I've been telling everyone with one room spaces to get the Mac Studio's. I've got an M2 Ultra Studio and the fan has yet to kick on for anything audio related I've done. The only time I've had the fan turn on is when I'm bouncing out huge videos from Davinci Resolve that are like over 30 minutes long, 6K footage rendered to 4K with lots of heavy color grading going on. When I render the final longer videos (that are ProRes and end up being over 100 GB), the fan does kick on pretty loud. Other than that, I never know the thing is there... If you need silent/quiet macs in the room with you, the Studios are really the only choice. I've had two friends get M2 Max Laptops and purchased a nice cooling dock for them hoping that would keep the noise down enough. They both switched to Studio's within a month and have been happy. I have a M1 Max MacBook 16”, totally silent, I also edit and render Braw 6k files with no fan noise, the ultra studio is a great machine, but I can edit in bed or while watching football from the couch, serious purchase motivators 😂 I also will use the hdmi out to run streams on a second monitor while I’m doing gerbil work in PT or davinci resolve, still no fans kicking in, only rendering barely kicks up the fans, best and quietest machine I’ve ever owned by far |
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 22, 2024 9:22:09 GMT -6
I haven't bought it yet - re read my post  |
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 22, 2024 9:35:56 GMT -6
I've been telling everyone with one room spaces to get the Mac Studio's. I've got an M2 Ultra Studio and the fan has yet to kick on for anything audio related I've done. The only time I've had the fan turn on is when I'm bouncing out huge videos from Davinci Resolve that are like over 30 minutes long, 6K footage rendered to 4K with lots of heavy color grading going on. When I render the final longer videos (that are ProRes and end up being over 100 GB), the fan does kick on pretty loud. Other than that, I never know the thing is there... If you need silent/quiet macs in the room with you, the Studios are really the only choice. I've had two friends get M2 Max Laptops and purchased a nice cooling dock for them hoping that would keep the noise down enough. They both switched to Studio's within a month and have been happy. I have a M1 Max MacBook 16”, totally silent, I also edit and render Braw 6k files with no fan noise, the ultra studio is a great machine, but I can edit in bed or while watching football from the couch, serious purchase motivators 😂 I also will use the hdmi out to run streams on a second monitor while I’m doing gerbil work in PT or davinci resolve, still no fans kicking in, only rendering barely kicks up the fans, best and quietest machine I’ve ever owned by far I can't buy an M1 Apple laptop .... they're discontinued - this has to be a purchase of a brand new laptop. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 22, 2024 9:48:57 GMT -6
No probs with my m4 mini.
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 22, 2024 11:58:17 GMT -6
No probs with my m4 mini. Doing what though? The demo's I've seen so far have shown the M4 Mac Mini and Mac Book Pro both silent .... until they are pushed then "woosh" the fans kick in and they're not quiet fans! I want something that can run some fairly hefty Cubase/ Logic sessions heavy on VI's and sample libraries at low latency and and also use it for video editing at times. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 22, 2024 12:05:21 GMT -6
I’m just doing my regular logic sessions: 30 plus tracks, busses, various 2 nd party plugs, 3-6 vi and mastering plugs: get’s the job done: not aware of fans at all.
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Post by damoongo on Nov 22, 2024 12:08:40 GMT -6
No probs with my m4 mini. Doing what though? The demo's I've seen so far have shown the M4 Mac Mini and Mac Book Pro both silent .... until they are pushed then "woosh" the fans kick in and they're not quiet fans! I want something that can run some fairly hefty Cubase/ Logic sessions heavy on VI's and sample libraries at low latency and and also use it for video editing at times. "...and throw in a unicorn and a spaceship that goes faster than light while you're at it!" |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 22, 2024 12:16:12 GMT -6
I’m just doing my regular logic sessions: 30 plus tracks, busses, various 2 nd party plugs, 3-6 vi and mastering plugs: get’s the job done: not aware of fans at all. I think fan noise is way less of a big deal with a Mini than with a laptop. Even a little fan noise is very annoying on a laptop if you're holding it, well... on your lap. But a Mac Mini on or under a desk? I feel like it would have to be pretty darn loud before it became an issue. kcatthedog one question, I can't remember what model you got. A YouTube link you shared a while ago said the fan noise wasn't an issue but even in that video they mentioned that the M4 Pro is much louder than vanilla M4. I mean... who knows what that even means though. Much louder than virtually silent still isn't that loud. I look at those other videos on fan noise and thermal throttling and it's like... in what use case are you running at 100% CPU for 20 minutes? Bit coin mining? Ok, maybe rendering. So do you need your machine to be silent when you are rendering large animations or mining for crypto currency? |
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 22, 2024 13:09:15 GMT -6
I’m just doing my regular logic sessions: 30 plus tracks, busses, various 2 nd party plugs, 3-6 vi and mastering plugs: get’s the job done: not aware of fans at all. OK thanks, so maybe the fans of a Mac Book Pro M4 Max won't kick and it won't be an issue. |
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 22, 2024 13:11:41 GMT -6
I’m just doing my regular logic sessions: 30 plus tracks, busses, various 2 nd party plugs, 3-6 vi and mastering plugs: get’s the job done: not aware of fans at all. I think fan noise is way less of a big deal with a Mini than with a laptop. Even a little fan noise is very annoying on a laptop if you're holding it, well... on your lap. But a Mac Mini on or under a desk? I feel like it would have to be pretty darn loud before it became an issue. kcatthedog one question, I can't remember what model you got. A YouTube link you shared a while ago said the fan noise wasn't an issue but even in that video they mentioned that the M4 Pro is much louder than vanilla M4. I mean... who knows what that even means though. Much louder than virtually silent still isn't that loud. I look at those other videos on fan noise and thermal throttling and it's like... in what use case are you running at 100% CPU for 20 minutes? Bit coin mining? Ok, maybe rendering. So do you need your machine to be silent when you are rendering large animations or mining for crypto currency? Yes, that's true of my water cooled PC desktop - it's under the desk and that makes it virtually silent from my sitting position. But I really want a laptop - it will be way more versatile and useful to me. May I should split the money and get a Mac Mini and a Mac book Air? .... but then both wouldn't be as powerful as one really powerful Mac Book Pro. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 22, 2024 13:14:04 GMT -6
I think fan noise is way less of a big deal with a Mini than with a laptop. Even a little fan noise is very annoying on a laptop if you're holding it, well... on your lap. But a Mac Mini on or under a desk? I feel like it would have to be pretty darn loud before it became an issue. kcatthedog one question, I can't remember what model you got. A YouTube link you shared a while ago said the fan noise wasn't an issue but even in that video they mentioned that the M4 Pro is much louder than vanilla M4. I mean... who knows what that even means though. Much louder than virtually silent still isn't that loud. I look at those other videos on fan noise and thermal throttling and it's like... in what use case are you running at 100% CPU for 20 minutes? Bit coin mining? Ok, maybe rendering. So do you need your machine to be silent when you are rendering large animations or mining for crypto currency? Yes, that's true of my water cooled PC desktop - it's under the desk and that makes it virtually silent from my sitting position. But I really want a laptop - it will be way more versatile and useful to me. May I should split the money and get a Mac Mini and a Mac book Air? .... Mmmh. Well, don't know how much power you need but I love my Macbook Air M2 15". Perfect form factor and has a surprising amount of juice. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 22, 2024 13:16:18 GMT -6
I have had a 2012 mbp i7, still run it and I was aware of its fans coming on occasionally. I had an m1 mini for about two years, 2 feet away on my table top: never heard the fans. I now have an m4 mini, been running at about 2 weeks, also two feet away: never heard the fans yet. I understand the concern and the logic of more work means more heat, but it all comes down to efficiency of design. Apple has a great return policy, buy the pro and see if you can get it to fall over and if/when fan comes on ? Real your world work is much better then internet speculation! |
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 22, 2024 13:33:39 GMT -6
Done it I just bought (£300 off in a sale) 2024 Apple MacBook Pro 16”, M4 Max Processor, 36GB RAM, 1TB SSD I'm well chuffed |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 22, 2024 13:36:04 GMT -6
Done it I just bought (£300 off in a sale) 2024 Apple MacBook Pro 16”, M4 Max Processor, 36GB RAM, 1TB SSD I'm well chuffed attaboy!! |
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 22, 2024 13:55:08 GMT -6
Go big or go (to the bar and order us pints!)
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Post by thehightenor on Nov 22, 2024 14:20:23 GMT -6
Go big or go (to the bar and order us pints!) I would but now Apple has all my money until I’ve saved up again |
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Post by EmRR on Nov 22, 2024 14:29:38 GMT -6
The M1’s had noisy fan problems when they came out, lots were returned, update apparently fixed it.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,083 
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Post by ericn on Nov 22, 2024 17:01:02 GMT -6
What would make sense, so it probably won’t happen is Sonnet should build an expansion chassis for a naked Mini.
I say this every time someone complains about cooling noise, it’s not just the fan, you also are dealing with the resonances of the chassis & anything else in there!
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Nov 22, 2024 17:09:02 GMT -6
What would make sense, so it probably won’t happen... Haha. You might as well have stopped right there! |
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