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Post by swurveman on Dec 3, 2014 10:17:49 GMT -6
Okay guitar guys, I need your opinion. For a while in the 70's the Rolling Stones used what sounds like a direct guitar through the board along with a miced guitar/amp/pedal sound. Any thoughts on what the direct guitar was, and what the miced guitar/amp/pedal were.
Here's the two sounds:
Ron Wood used the fuzzy sound too.
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Post by jimwilliams on Dec 3, 2014 10:24:05 GMT -6
A similar technique was used by Frank Zappa. He would split the guitar signal. All of his guitars were active with low output impedance so they could do that without affecting the tone. A direct clean sound was sent to a track, the amped sound sent to another track.
Sometimes he would use the Pignose next to the guitar to create feedback, but all you hear is the direct sound, sort of like using a sustainer device.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 3, 2014 10:38:58 GMT -6
That guitar intro in Can't You Hear Me Knocking is tops. Every time that song comes on I get fired up.
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Post by matt on Dec 3, 2014 11:36:38 GMT -6
They were Ampeg endorsers during the '70s so most live gigs featured V4s and the like as their backline. I have seen pictures of them in the studio and the amps were mostly Fender: Champs/Deluxes/Twins, etc. Here's a YouTube vid of his live rig, circa 2006/7:
Allegedly he used a very early Twin on the Exile sessions. But there is a lot of speculation about what he used on particular songs.
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Post by matt on Dec 3, 2014 11:46:21 GMT -6
From another forum:
" . . . if you watch the documentary Stones In Exile carefully, you'll be able to pick out some Fenders (silver face) and Ampegs, big and small. In Tarlé's photos, you can see a small Fender, a 2x12 type Fender, a huge Ampeg head (maybe a V2 but probably a V4) and a Gemini GV-22 . . . I was able to capture a couple shots in which you can see--if you know what to look for--a little Ampeg GU-12."
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 3, 2014 12:08:26 GMT -6
When I picked up my Mesa Mark iia, I came across this article... www.premierguitar.com/articles/21093-vintage-vault-late-70s-mesaboogie-mark-i-and-mark-ii-combos"Hearing Santana’s sound, other top guitarists wanted Boogies too. Because Smith personally assembled and inspected every amp, the wait time in the late ’70s could be up to seven months. Keith Richards contacted Smith in 1977 and eventually purchased several Boogies over the years. (While most companies gave the Stones amps for free, Smith charged the band for his handmade Boogies due to the small size of his company at the time.) Boogies can be first heard with the Stones on side three of Love You Live taped at Toronto’s storied El Mocambo Tavern. Boogies remained the Stones’ go-to amps through 1993." |
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Post by matt on Dec 3, 2014 15:07:50 GMT -6
Killer live guitar tone here, the Faces were a great band. And then there's Keef.
How much more nasal can that be? None. None more nasal.
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Post by swurveman on Dec 3, 2014 15:53:32 GMT -6
That guitar intro in Can't You Hear Me Knocking is tops. Every time that song comes on I get fired up. Yeah, that's the sound I'm most curious about. It was recorded in 1971.So, it wasn't a Mesa Boogie. I found this article, that says Ron Wood-who has a very similar tone in the intro of "Stay With Me"- "used humbucker equipped guitars including Gibson SGs, and his amp of choice was an Ampeg bass rig, usually the SVT, V-2 or V-4. The article goes on to say "(Note: Keith Richards also used Ampeg bass rigs while recording Exile On Main Street.)" So, perhaps that's it. Funny thing, my first amp was an Ampeg. Should have held onto it.  Thanks guys for your thoughts. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 4, 2014 10:06:32 GMT -6
I don't believe the Stones guitars were ever direct. They did all sorts of unusual things like using a crappy cassette recording of guitar on an album. In this case, I think they just got their sound from the guitar and amp. Keith used lots of Tele's, but more often than people know, he used a Gibson 335, with some nice fat humbuckers. That's how to get that sound, humbuckers first, then just crush a small amp.
As for Ron Wood, he used high output humbuckers on those recordings, plus more bass than guitarists usually use in their settings, which dirtied it up even more. I had a Guild SG type guitar once that sounded exactly like Wood's, just roll off the highs a little and push an amp.
In Keith's case, probably a single speaker amp, in Wood's more likely a 4 X 12 cabinet. If you take some time, I bet you can find out exactly what they used on those recordings, keep on digging, you'l find it.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 4, 2014 10:21:26 GMT -6
I had an Epi SG shaped Les Paul with 3 pickups that I ran hot into a crappy Epi. Valve Jr. and got similar tone to this. I'm with Martin John Butler on humbuckers crushing a small amp. |
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Post by nobtwiddler on Dec 4, 2014 12:05:50 GMT -6
Ampeg VT-22
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 4, 2014 19:24:42 GMT -6
Sounded like a Champ to me.
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Post by geoff738 on Dec 4, 2014 21:05:31 GMT -6
Sounded like a Champ to me. I think in Wood's case at least, this is probably the answer. There's a vid floating around with the mighty Faces in a TV studio situation (RIP Mac) and Woody's playing what looks to be a Princeton. He does have a very distinctive tone from that era. Wonder how much is the Zemaitas? As for Keith? The 5 string open G stuff is probably all Tele. I think for the standard tuning stuff - anything goes. Brown Sugar is apparently an SG through a Twin turned up to, well, as far as you could. He was also playing the Dan Armstrong plexi around that time. Lately the 335 has been seen a lot on stage on the standard tuning stuff. But again, in the studio? Who knows. There are a couple photos of him playing a 335 through a Marshall. I did hear he was playing AC30 clones in the studio a couple years back in NYC when the Stones were doing some recording there - perhaps the "extras" that have come out in the last year or two. But I think if you're trying to get into the Keef thing at moderate volumes I'd look for something that breaks up in a not so polite way. A little ratty/snarly, whatever. For me that would be Gibsons tweed attempts, the Valco or Supro stuff (so, early Grestch, National and others) maybe a 60s Ampeg that actually breaks up - can't remember which model, but there is one - and for modern, Swart pretty much nails it. A good, slightly overwound Tele bridge pickup combined with that will get you a lot of the way there. Bring Keef in - and you're all the way there. My two (now discontinued in Canuckland) 2 cents. Cheers, Geoff |
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Post by ragan on Jan 5, 2015 12:05:38 GMT -6
On "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" Keith played a Gibson Custom Black Beauty (tuned to open G) and a Dan Armstrong Plexi. Mick played a walnut Gibson ES-335TD-SV on the solo. Don't know what amps were used (but I have that same 335 that Mick played).
Edit: this is from Andy Babiuk and Greg Prevost's book "Rolling Stones Gear".
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Post by geoff738 on Jan 7, 2015 15:16:48 GMT -6
On "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" Keith played a Gibson Custom Black Beauty (tuned to open G) and a Dan Armstrong Plexi. Mick played a walnut Gibson ES-335TD-SV on the solo. Don't know what amps were used (but I have that same 335 that Mick played). Edit: this is from Andy Babiuk and Greg Prevost's book "Rolling Stones Gear". Do they get as specific as what was played on what track? Anyhow, thanks for reminding me about that book - I need to get it. Cheers, Geoff |
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Post by ragan on Jan 10, 2015 2:11:36 GMT -6
On "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" Keith played a Gibson Custom Black Beauty (tuned to open G) and a Dan Armstrong Plexi. Mick played a walnut Gibson ES-335TD-SV on the solo. Don't know what amps were used (but I have that same 335 that Mick played). Edit: this is from Andy Babiuk and Greg Prevost's book "Rolling Stones Gear". Do they get as specific as what was played on what track? Anyhow, thanks for reminding me about that book - I need to get it. Cheers, Geoff They don't I'm afraid. Cool book though. |
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Post by robschnapf on Feb 18, 2015 1:58:13 GMT -6
Plug a tele into an SVT and that's the sound.
It's amazing.
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Post by jimwilliams on Feb 18, 2015 15:58:36 GMT -6
On "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" Keith played a Gibson Custom Black Beauty (tuned to open G) and a Dan Armstrong Plexi. I believe that's the same Les Paul he plays on the Ed Sullivan show when they did Satisfaction. When the Experience first formed they did a gig in Paris with the Stones and Noel Redding played Keith's Black Beauty on Red House. |
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