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Post by cowboycoalminer on Dec 28, 2014 17:41:30 GMT -6
I don't use many profiles on the Kemper. Maybe five. Don't want to audition 100 amps to record a part. Gonna get the MB profiles though. My favorite profiles are done by people who know how to record an amp in the first place. I am comfortable using the Kemper for recording. Live, I still prefer an amp, even though I use the Two-Notes Torpedo for the FOH cab/mic sound and the 4x12 is just a stage monitor. Michael Britt used one of your riffs for his model demoes donr. And it sounded great lol
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Post by jimwilliams on Dec 29, 2014 10:36:39 GMT -6
A great tube guitar amp is the extension of the instrument, the sound box. The interaction between player and the box cannot be underestimated. Imagine Hendrix without the Marshall cutting tracks with a simulator.
Simulators to guitar amps is like florescent light is to sunlight.
I love my 1966 Fender Deluxe Reverb amp, not made like that these days.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 29, 2014 10:37:29 GMT -6
Sunlight is free. A Dumble is not.
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Post by jimwilliams on Dec 29, 2014 10:38:22 GMT -6
You sometimes do get what you pay for.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 29, 2014 11:04:17 GMT -6
Well, I still haven't decided what I'm gonna do...I DO hear there's a sonic difference. BUT, that could totally be because it was my first time to profile anything. I wasn't able to A/B the Kemper with the original amp during the tweaking process because of two things: 1) the amp is combo sitting next to my desk and I'm not able to hear the "recording" of the amp without hearing the amp at super loud volume as well. 2) I'm too lazy to figure out an alternative. I was actually kind of amazed at how close the profile was with just me hooking up a guitar into the Kemper, Kemper into the amp, SM57 into a pre, pre into the Kemper...and then push a button. Boom, pretty damn close. The questions is this: how do the amps /profiles sound that people like Michael Britt are doing? Pretty damn great. There are several profiles in that Michael Britt pack that I could see using constantly. Marshall SL100, Little Walter 22/50, /13 FTR and LDW, Star 30...Then several Amp Factory ones too.
So - keep the Kemper, sell the amp and be out around $800 to have multiple amp sounds, effects, ability to record quietly...or, no Kemper, but upgrade mic with nice ribbon for around $800 to have one really great tone... For what I do, and what this would be used for - demos - I am certainly leaning towards keeping the Kemper.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 29, 2014 11:12:31 GMT -6
You sometimes do get what you pay for. That makes me chuckle. Come on man, it's not like it sounds like total dog shit. This is the kind of hyperbole and snobbery that really made my eyes roll on other message boards, so lets keep it at a minimum. I am totally ok with making some sonic concessions for demos and ease of use...but I would venture to guess that 90% or more of the people listening would have ZERO idea that there was any compromise. There's probably more difference in moving the mic 2 inches. As much as I would love having several 251's, 47's, a Neve 8068, vintage Fenders and Marshalls, etc...it's not obtainable. I think finding avenues to make the biggest bang for your investment is not only a good strategy, but in this day in age when music no longer pays, it's a necessity.
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 29, 2014 11:35:52 GMT -6
IMO They are decent quick documenting tools void of inspiration, kempers are also $2,100.00+? last time i checked. Thats not free in my world, and i can pick them out against real amps 100% of the time unless the recording is horrible, i can even pick them(modeling) out when they aren't being compared.., and my ears ain't nothing special, just listen for the digititus and hard edge artifacting on the highs. What JW mentioned is no small issue, that magic interaction between a great tube amp/player is a virtual fantasy using a kemper, it just doesn't/can't happen imo, of course YMMV, it's whatever floats the boat as they say, if you're compressing the life out of your 3 chord formulaic greenday wannabe arrangements, then who gives a shit?(not saying thats anyone here) Also, anyone could indeed pick up a 1966 blackface fender deluxe for about that coin? I'd rather have one killer sound(not really, it's way more versatile than that), than a bunch of 1/2 sounds...JMO sorry, not intended to aggro, just a strongly stated opinion 8) www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-Fender-Deluxe-Reverb-amp-amplifer-1966-/271719544453
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 29, 2014 11:52:19 GMT -6
OK - not worth the argument. To each his own. The 100% guessing is a little over the top though...
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 29, 2014 12:28:16 GMT -6
well considering i already read what you wrote before editing, it's hard to unread 8) That said, YES 100% of the time, care to test me out? i find it interesting that Jes would "like" that considering i picked out 4 for 4 on his test? I love putting my money where my mouth is, i have no fear, if i'm wrong i'm wrong. I'll make a deal with you, if i pick wrong, i'll build your 47 for free lol
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 29, 2014 19:26:43 GMT -6
well considering i already read what you wrote before editing, it's hard to unread 8)Â That said, YES 100% of the time, care to test me out? i find it interesting that Jes would "like" that considering i picked out 4 for 4 on his test? I love putting my money where my mouth is, i have no fear, if i'm wrong i'm wrong. I'll make a deal with you, if i pick wrong, i'll build your 47 for free lol I'm total amp guy. Love hearing an amp in a room. On the other hand, I doubt that you, or I, or anyone else could go 10 for 10 on well mixed tracks (5 with amps, 5 with sims). The part I was liking above though was that it's not worth arguing about. If the sims provide the tones you're looking for and the amp doesn't, who cares, ya know. It especially doesn't matter for demos, right?
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 29, 2014 19:28:03 GMT -6
Right
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Post by matt on Dec 29, 2014 20:32:32 GMT -6
IMHO the circumstances of production and the variables of a song - it's structure, melody, vibe, how it's mixed, etc - outweigh the method of capture, in the end. If you are cutting a track for world-wide release in anticipation of a potential Grammy, by all means play through the best amps, mics, and recording chain. You will be able to afford it, most likely. Otherwise, do what's best for the process of creation. I can see where a Kemper and technologies like it can enhance the demo process. So unless the thing sounds like shit, if it helps the process along, use it.
While not a Kemper, my Two Notes Studio has become core to my recording process, and sound. In my dreams, I hope that someday interviewers will ask me, "How Did You Get That Sound?" My reply would be, "Well, it's complicated . . ."
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 29, 2014 20:43:36 GMT -6
Hey - I just want the Kemper to be like an offensive lineman - no one mentions it because it just does it's job.
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Post by LesC on Dec 29, 2014 22:15:13 GMT -6
A great tube guitar amp is the extension of the instrument, the sound box. The interaction between player and the box cannot be underestimated. Imagine Hendrix without the Marshall cutting tracks with a simulator. Simulators to guitar amps is like florescent light is to sunlight. I love my 1966 Fender Deluxe Reverb amp, not made like that these days. I can easily imagine Hendrix playing with a Kemper. I think he'd be one of the first to embrace it, and get sounds out of it that most of us can't even imagine. If Hendrix was famous a few years earlier than he was, I can imagine people asking "Can you imagine Hendrix playing with a fuzz and wah? LOL!" Fortunately we don't have to imagine that.
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Post by LesC on Dec 29, 2014 22:16:39 GMT -6
You sometimes do get what you pay for. Now this I agree with. And a Kemper is worth every penny! (See what I did there?)
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Post by bricejchandler on Dec 30, 2014 7:33:41 GMT -6
I agree. The song is what matters in the end. A ton of great songs have been recorded on solid state amps or direct into the board. I tried the Kemper and thought it was a great tool. I have a friend who does a lot of commercials/jingles and for him it's just perfect, he's asked to do different styles daily and I don't think he'd go back to amps for that kind of work. The Kemper is just so incredibly convenient . I ended up returning the Kemper because in the end, it was just too much for me, too many presets, and I still felt my amps sounded better. Most of my current work is writing for others, and for the genre I do, mainly folk/pop/ballad stuff I usually need a good clean and a good crunch tone and that's about it, nothing fancy, no high gain tones. For now I'm fine using some of the plug sims ( sgear/ bias and logic amp designer even) for writing quietly at home, I get a good DI tone through a BAE DMP/symphony IO and I can always reamp later through my ac30 with my R92/SM57 combo. If I ever need another tone, I've got a friend's studio a block away who's got JCM800/900,TWIN,MESA, JTM45 and just reamp it over there. In the end, it's all about workflow, and I didn't feel the Kemper got me there faster. I've actually downsized a lot my writing studio as I found out I just had too much equipment, it was built around an Audient 8024 with quite a few external preamps/comps/eqs/reverbs, and I just spent too much time fiddling with knobs instead of just writing tunes. My new set up is super simple, a few pres, everything is always connected , a U87 or SM7b for vocals, a pair of CMC6s for recording acoustic guitar/mandolin/ukelele and the amp setup. I would've maybe kept it if it'd been like $500, but 2 grand is a lot of cash for something I don't really need. While I had it I recorded a demo track for a friend who plays some pretty hardcore metal stuff ( not my kind of music but it's always interesting to work on other genres) and he had a 5150 head and a Diezel VH4. We were able to get EXTREMELY close to the 5150 hi gain, when a/bing, the main difference I noticed was how they reacted differently to palm muted power chord chugging, the Kemper sounded a little more polite. On the Diezel I wasn't able to get quite as close but then didn't spend much time fine tuning it. IMHO the circumstances of production and the variables of a song - it's structure, melody, vibe, how it's mixed, etc - outweigh the method of capture, in the end. If you are cutting a track for world-wide release in anticipation of a potential Grammy, by all means play through the best amps, mics, and recording chain. You will be able to afford it, most likely. Otherwise, do what's best for the process of creation. I can see where a Kemper and technologies like it can enhance the demo process. So unless the thing sounds like shit, if it helps the process along, use it. While not a Kemper, my Two Notes Studio has become core to my recording process, and sound. In my dreams, I hope that someday interviewers will ask me, "How Did You Get That Sound?" My reply would be, "Well, it's complicated . . ."
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 30, 2014 10:11:37 GMT -6
Yeah - my main complaint with the Kemper is not what it offers, but how I respond to it...there are SO MANY choices. And that can be a bad thing. I do the same thing as you - mostly use crunch tones. Gonna have to use it to build a song a few times to tell.
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Post by joelhamilton on Jan 1, 2015 21:33:19 GMT -6
I have a session player buddy who gave me an hour tour of the Kemper. I certainly wouldn't decide based on my first profile. Those things are quite amazing and incredibly versatile. If I wanted an all purpose home recording rig the Kemper seems perfect. You can always loan it to me to record some stuff and sell you on it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 1, 2015 21:50:39 GMT -6
I'm pretty sold now...but you definitely need to come over and check out these MB profiles. Pretty damn amazing. For what I'm doing, I think it's a great fit. Although, if and when my ship ever comes in, I'll be buying some mics and amps.
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Post by LesC on Jan 2, 2015 0:04:13 GMT -6
Yeah - my main complaint with the Kemper is not what it offers, but how I respond to it...there are SO MANY choices. And that can be a bad thing. I do the same thing as you - mostly use crunch tones. Gonna have to use it to build a song a few times to tell. I too found the vast number of choices debilitating. I'm now using the Rig Manager and finding it very useful for organizing and quickly switching to different profiles. Are you using it?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 2, 2015 8:33:13 GMT -6
What does it really do though? Can you connect the Kemper to the computer now? I just thought it was a way you could clean up and organize your current profiles. (Which is definitely helpful). It's nice to be able to delete profiles in chunks instead of going one by one. Jeesh.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 2, 2015 9:44:37 GMT -6
To my ears, the Kemper did not produce the warmth of the full G chord in that chord progression as well as the amp/mic/preamp. You may have not hit the chords the same, but I could not hear the low end string warmth as clearly.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 2, 2015 16:40:12 GMT -6
Yeah - the Amp was definitely "fuller"...but this was with zero tweaking. I just hooked up the amp to the Kemper and pressed the profile button. There's a way to tweak - listen and tweak - but I didn't have the ability to monitor the amp and the Kemper at the same time. I think I could've gotten it a lot closer. If you have the coin, I would say go with the multitude of amps...if not and convenience is yo thing, the Kemper is the bomb. I'm gonna post another file of Joel doodling and me switching through some Michael Britt presets...Sounds much better with him playing
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t3
Junior Member
I'm in the hi-fidelity first class travelling set.
Posts: 54
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Post by t3 on Jan 2, 2015 16:52:25 GMT -6
Your real amp sounds miles better in the high end. That is disappointing; with all I've read about the Kemper, I expected it to be better.
That said, if you can roll off it's top without killing the sound, it's versatility can't be denied.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 2, 2015 17:07:04 GMT -6
Miles? Maybe I should have never attempted to put up samples.
But maybe what's good enough for me isn't what's good enough for other people.
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