|
Post by mrholmes on Oct 25, 2015 7:16:05 GMT -6
Hi RGOs.
I know I should know it but I never was interested in it and all the years I just gave my amp to my tech.
I know about the SRV thing to replace 12AX7 to a 5771 .... They say it gives a warmer tone a tat more headroom and less noise. Fat a clean sounds bla bla guitar talk....
But wait wait is not a tube just a part that amplifies low voltage to a higher voltage?
Now I ask myself why in the world tubes can sound different?? They can amplify more or less but a sound? Do they soft clip in different ways.
Background is I want to swap tubes first time myself. Before I buy a 5771 I want go sure. Does it makes sense or is it a big myth hype mainly driven by psychology...
Thanks Holmes...
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 25, 2015 10:13:15 GMT -6
Tubes can be the difference between adequate and exactly what you want. I had a THD amp once that allowed tube changes without rebiasing. I could easily swap tubes, and man, was there ever a difference in sound. Between very different tubes, like a 6L6 and an EL34, of course there was an obvious difference, basically Fender vs. Marshall tones, but EL84's had more shimmer, etc. Then there's the hype surrounding NOS tubes. I was given some very pricey NOS EL34's, like.. $85 each, and guess what, the new Russian EL 34 tubes just killed them.
The moral is, yes, tubes can make a really big difference, you just have to try some. You'll know in a few seconds which ones you like.
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Oct 25, 2015 11:36:33 GMT -6
the signal goes through tubes in almost every guitar amp ever made
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Oct 25, 2015 19:26:11 GMT -6
different types of 12ax7s sound different.
Power Tubes sound different
Rectifier tubes sound different
Different amounts of Bias sounds different
Speakers sound different
Different different different 8)
thats before you get into substitutions
cheers
Wiz
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Oct 26, 2015 2:49:20 GMT -6
different types of 12ax7s sound different. Power Tubes sound different Rectifier tubes sound different Different amounts of Bias sounds different Speakers sound different Different different different 8) thats before you get into substitutions cheers Wiz Speakers was clear to me because I played different ones. About the tube bias I heard the first time when the tube swapping thing came to my mind. I will ask my tech about it. Speaker upgrade is the next step for my sweet little amp. Thinking also about to change the OT for more headroom, lesser load on the primary.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Oct 26, 2015 7:06:08 GMT -6
To properly address this topic, we should have an expert like Myles Rose (former genius at Groove Tubes) here. That man's forgotten more about tubes/valves than the rest of us know - combined.
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Oct 26, 2015 7:41:19 GMT -6
EVERYTHING sounds different. 12AX7 is usually the first stage, so it's effects are amplified by subsequent stages; you hear it's imprint the most in many cases because of it. Most amp guys keep a variety of tubes around and can be known to swap them on the fly depending on the gig at hand. They lose strength over long periods of time and sound different too, sometimes the worn-in tube is the one that wins. Noise is a different question, that's generally a crap shoot with too many variables to call a trend.
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Oct 26, 2015 22:10:08 GMT -6
I spent a day swapping tubes in and out of my princeton, using re amping techniques. and recorded the results of different tubes, different biasing levels etc... It was a really good learning experience...and I found what I liked, and more importantly what I didn't like.. 8)
learned a bucket load too....
cheers
Wiz
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 26, 2015 22:19:29 GMT -6
Wiz, what were your preferences after trying all those variables?
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Oct 26, 2015 22:25:29 GMT -6
Wia, what were your preferences after trying all those variables? JJs or the original tubes that came with the amp, which were... hmmm.. Groove Tubes (electroharmonix?) Bias at 19ma The Tung Sols and I had quite a few sets.. I didn't like.. in fact I should sell them.... Also the Ruby Rectifier was best.. cheers Wiz
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Oct 26, 2015 23:54:49 GMT -6
Wia, what were your preferences after trying all those variables? JJs or the original tubes that came with the amp, which were... hmmm.. Groove Tubes (electroharmonix?) Bias at 19ma The Tung Sols and I had quite a few sets.. I didn't like.. in fact I should sell them.... Also the Ruby Rectifier was best.. cheers Wiz My favorite pornstar!
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Oct 27, 2015 8:19:08 GMT -6
Also the Ruby Rectifier was best.. My favorite pornstar! Once upon a time, maybe, but man, the years have not been kind to her.
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Oct 29, 2015 9:32:40 GMT -6
Cool I was about to buy another amp but now this little thing rocks. SRV is still alive, his advise to swap a 12AX7 with a 5751 did exactly what he said.
The amp now stays longer clean, I can control the distortion way better with my pick. If I want to stay clean I get thick and open tone... think Wind Cries Mary, or Lenny. The amp noise is reduced by 50% - this is great for tracking.
If you have an Bugera-Vintage 5 and you think this China-Amp sucks because of its distortions... do the tube swap and save yourself some money. With my pedals I now can have a lot of tones without leaving my writing mixing environment.
It was exactly my aim because of my left leg problem..... no more walking.
The best 28 Euros I ever spend for anything in the studio.
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Oct 29, 2015 9:35:41 GMT -6
Double
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Nov 11, 2015 21:24:49 GMT -6
Believe it or Not (TM) capacitors, transformers, or any other component can be just as substantial as tubes in the grand scheme. Believe it or not it all makes a difference, it all matters. It's something to pay attention to, or not, at your own peril. But it's all good fun, too.
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Nov 12, 2015 17:14:31 GMT -6
Believe it or Not (TM) capacitors, transformers, or any other component can be just as substantial as tubes in the grand scheme. Believe it or not it all makes a difference, it all matters. It's something to pay attention to, or not, at your own peril. But it's all good fun, too. Yupp I hear you will put a bright cap in to make the Amp more Humbucker friendly....
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Nov 12, 2015 21:36:18 GMT -6
I spend a good amount of play time rolling different tubes when I get a new amp. But, it's like cooking--it's a total recipe, not like "here's the magical 5751 so now it's all better"--I like them, but they just change the gain structure--some amps benefit more than others....and a GOOD 12at7 or ax7 will beat a shitty 5751 most days of the week. And some amps benefit from NOS tubes more than others....some are engineered with the assumption of new production tubes and their "sound"....so, there's no myth--unless the myth is that it's as simple as good and bad tubes....or whatever--it matters what guitar/pickups are interacting with the v1 tube--it's all a trial and error to a large degree.
What I WILL say is that at this point in my guitar playing life--some 30 years in or so....I can drop a Royer in front of my amps and hit record--and do next to nothing to achieve the recorded sound I want. This is due in large part to years of whittling down to what amps and pickups and guitars and tubes and pedals and whatever that get the sound I want at the source.
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Nov 13, 2015 11:50:20 GMT -6
Believe it or Not (TM) capacitors, transformers, or any other component can be just as substantial as tubes in the grand scheme. Believe it or not it all makes a difference, it all matters. It's something to pay attention to, or not, at your own peril. But it's all good fun, too. Yupp I hear you will put a bright cap in to make the Amp more Humbucker friendly.... Yes the simple "bright cap" mod can be very effective when an amp is a little too dark. I did that on my Silvertone 1484 and it took it from bland to perfect (for me).
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Nov 13, 2015 15:49:27 GMT -6
Yupp I hear you will put a bright cap in to make the Amp more Humbucker friendly.... Yes the simple "bright cap" mod can be very effective when an amp is a little too dark. I did that on my Silvertone 1484 and it took it from bland to perfect (for me). Conversely, can a "dark cap" be put in to make a bright amp more tame? I'm thinking of some of the Dr. Z amps I own are a little TOO bright.
|
|
|
Post by Guitar on Nov 13, 2015 18:51:36 GMT -6
Yes the simple "bright cap" mod can be very effective when an amp is a little too dark. I did that on my Silvertone 1484 and it took it from bland to perfect (for me). Conversely, can a "dark cap" be put in to make a bright amp more tame? I'm thinking of some of the Dr. Z amps I own are a little TOO bright. I'm sure there are ways to make amps more dark, but I haven't personally done that so I'm afraid I can't help too much. One really easy thing I have done, is choose a darker speaker for the amp in question. Sometimes that can make all the difference.
|
|