|
|
Vox AV30?
Sept 10, 2017 9:12:51 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by stormymondays on Sept 10, 2017 9:12:51 GMT -6
My recommendations from personal experience:
For silent tracking: get the Tech 21 Liverpool. Record that and the DI and you're golden.
The smallest tube amp that doesn't sound like a toy is the Vox AC4C1, with a 10" speaker. The AC4TV sounds marginally better than a battery powered toy amp.
|
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Sept 10, 2017 12:39:44 GMT -6
My recommendations from personal experience: For silent tracking: get the Tech 21 Liverpool. Record that and the DI and you're golden. The smallest tube amp that doesn't sound like a toy is the Vox AC4C1, with a 10" speaker. The AC4TV sounds marginally better than a battery powered toy amp. Actually the Vox Lil Night train (1.5-2 watts depending on load impedance) sounds damn good. Gain, master, treble and bass controls, true Class AB push-pull using a 12AU7 as the output pair with 1 12AX7 as a 2 stage preamp and 1 12AX7 configured as a "long tail pair" phase splitter. www.voxshowroom.com/uk/amp/nt2h.html Tone controls are stated to be the Vox "Top Boost circuit", and there's a "Bright/Thick" switch that bypasses the tone controls for extra gain. Unfortunately Vox discontinued it after only a couple or three years - never really gave it a fair chance. The headphone/line out ain't that great though... the "speaker emulation appears to be a simple low-pass as is common on most small amps. I got mine as an impulse buy off the GC used shelf shortly after it was discontinued. Paid $150. Average price (head alone) seems to be $200 or a bit more now, 4 or 5 years later, if you can find one. I run mine through a low power Celestion 12, significantly better tone than the 10 in the matching cabinet. EDIT: It looks like GC has a used head on sale for $139 right now on their website, which is a great deal. www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Vox/NT2H-Night-Train-2W-Tube-Guitar-Amp-Head-113082694.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXGP&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg6OGq6Kb1gIVhLfACh0kPg7bEAQYAyABEgJFv_D_BwE&kwid=productads-adid^66736785762-device^c-plaid^347609378534-sku^113082694@ADL4GC-adType^PLA |
|
|
|
Post by stormymondays on Sept 10, 2017 12:43:02 GMT -6
I have the original Night Train and it's really good for the money. Also, you are definitely right with the speaker choice. I think the reason the AC4TV sounds so small it's because it IS small, with its 8" speaker.
|
|
|
|
Vox AV30?
Sept 10, 2017 19:36:03 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Quint on Sept 10, 2017 19:36:03 GMT -6
My recommendations from personal experience: For silent tracking: get the Tech 21 Liverpool. Record that and the DI and you're golden. The smallest tube amp that doesn't sound like a toy is the Vox AC4C1, with a 10" speaker. The AC4TV sounds marginally better than a battery powered toy amp. I took a look at the Liverpool. I had heard of them before but never really looked into them. From what I'm reading, it looks more or less like the Vox AV30 (they both do their amp modeling in the analog realm), but in a pedal form and with less amp types modeled (1 vs 8), though it is also cheaper. How does the Liverpool sound, in your opinion? I guess what interests me in the AV30 over options like the Liverpool is that it has different models all in one unit instead of having to buy a different unit from Tech 21 (or another maker) for each different amp type. Granted, these are ALL a compromise compared to a real tube amp miced in a room but, if one must record SILENTLY (not just at a lower volume) then I'm interested in finding the best option out there to accomplish that. That's why I kind of soured on reactive load stuff. The concept sounds like a good idea but it seems like most people say the tone suffers pretty bad when turned down to the point where the amp is completely silent. Plus, not all of my amps (or amps a band may bring in) necessarily have a speaker output. Thus far, the AV30 seems to meet my requirements the best, but I would still be interested in options which offer the same capabilities (line out for silent recording, cabinet emulation on the line out, multiple amp models, no digital modeling of amp models, similar price range). The emulation of multiple amp types is not a MUST but is preferred, where as the speaker cab included with the AV30 is simply a bonus and not required. I'd actually prefer just an amp head but don't mind paying for the cab if it meets all of my other requirements, such as with the AV30. Oh, and it appears that the AV30 may actually sound pretty good, especially for the price. |
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Sept 11, 2017 0:49:38 GMT -6
My recommendations from personal experience: For silent tracking: get the Tech 21 Liverpool. Record that and the DI and you're golden. The smallest tube amp that doesn't sound like a toy is the Vox AC4C1, with a 10" speaker. The AC4TV sounds marginally better than a battery powered toy amp. I took a look at the Liverpool. I had heard of them before but never really looked into them. From what I'm reading, it looks more or less like the Vox AV30 (they both do their amp modeling in the analog realm), but in a pedal form and with less amp types modeled (1 vs 8), though it is also cheaper. How does the Liverpool sound, in your opinion? I guess what interests me in the AV30 over options like the Liverpool is that it has different models all in one unit instead of having to buy a different unit from Tech 21 (or another maker) for each different amp type. Granted, these are ALL a compromise compared to a real tube amp miced in a room but, if one must record SILENTLY (not just at a lower volume) then I'm interested in finding the best option out there to accomplish that. That's why I kind of soured on reactive load stuff. The concept sounds like a good idea but it seems like most people say the tone suffers pretty bad when turned down to the point where the amp is completely silent. Plus, not all of my amps (or amps a band may bring in) necessarily have a speaker output. Thus far, the AV30 seems to meet my requirements the best, but I would still be interested in options which offer the same capabilities (line out for silent recording, cabinet emulation on the line out, multiple amp models, no digital modeling of amp models, similar price range). The emulation of multiple amp types is not a MUST but is preferred, where as the speaker cab included with the AV30 is simply a bonus and not required. I'd actually prefer just an amp head but don't mind paying for the cab if it meets all of my other requirements, such as with the AV30. Oh, and it appears that the AV30 may actually sound pretty good, especially for the price. Well, since you seem hell-bent on purchasing this amp go ahead and for your sake I genuinely hope that I'm wrong about it, but I just went back to the listing on the Vox website and there was so much BS and doubletallk on the "overview" page alone that the red flags were waving in my face like a toreador baiting a bull at a bullfight. And the "specs" page wasn't any more reassuring. How can an amp rated at 30 watts output only have a power consumption of 27? Have they invented free energy out of nowhere? I'm sure that the DOE would love to hear about that! My bullshit detector is screaming. And if they make boneheaded mistakes on the specs page how can anyone believe anything they say? And regardless of what the sales weasels would have you believe, NO "silent amp" is going to really sound that great. If every other inexpensive amp featuring "silent speaker emulation" doesn't sound very good in that mode why would you think that this one would be any different just on the basis of the sales literature? As far as the so-called "analog amp modeling" is concerned, for decades companies have been trying to make solid state amps, with or without the addition of gratuitous tubes, that can do a convincing emulation of a good tube amp. I've never heard one that's succeeded and most of the ones I've heard (even the more expensive ones) suck pretty hard. Actually, change that to "all the ones". Now, I'll be the first to say that I haven't heard every amp in the world, so the possibility does exist that I may have missed something. But I really doubt that I would not have become aware of something that revolutionary. If you DO end up buying it, please make sure you have an unconditional 30 day right of return, no questions asked. Good luck! |
|
|
|
Post by stormymondays on Sept 11, 2017 1:59:20 GMT -6
I took a look at the Liverpool. I had heard of them before but never really looked into them. From what I'm reading, it looks more or less like the Vox AV30 (they both do their amp modeling in the analog realm), but in a pedal form and with less amp types modeled (1 vs 8), though it is also cheaper. How does the Liverpool sound, in your opinion? I guess what interests me in the AV30 over options like the Liverpool is that it has different models all in one unit instead of having to buy a different unit from Tech 21 (or another maker) for each different amp type. The Liverpool is a professional piece of equipment, made by the company that invented this product in the first place (SansAmp), with decades of experience in the analog amp emulation field. It can emulate a few different sorts of Vox amps, with the continous "character" knob. It sounds excellent to my ears. A few years ago I bought the Vox Amplug, thinking "how bad can it be for quick practice at home". I returned it the next day. |
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Sept 11, 2017 12:44:00 GMT -6
I took a look at the Liverpool. I had heard of them before but never really looked into them. From what I'm reading, it looks more or less like the Vox AV30 (they both do their amp modeling in the analog realm), but in a pedal form and with less amp types modeled (1 vs 8), though it is also cheaper. How does the Liverpool sound, in your opinion? I guess what interests me in the AV30 over options like the Liverpool is that it has different models all in one unit instead of having to buy a different unit from Tech 21 (or another maker) for each different amp type. The Liverpool is a professional piece of equipment, made by the company that invented this product in the first place (SansAmp), with decades of experience in the analog amp emulation field. It can emulate a few different sorts of Vox amps, with the continous "character" knob. It sounds excellent to my ears. A few years ago I bought the Vox Amplug, thinking "how bad can it be for quick practice at home". I returned it the next day. He's right - if there's any company that can do a good amp emulation in a "silent" hardware format it's Tech21/Sansmp. I don't really count them products as "silent amps" because they're not really amps - and don't use use the crappy "speaker emulation" circuitry that's common to nearly all 'silent practice/home recording" amps, they're emulation pedals that don't contain power amp circuitry with a buggered-up "speaker emulation" filter slapped (which never works properly in my experience, it purpose designed as an emulator for the specific style of that particular pedal is designed to emulate. And they don't use use a buggered-up toob or two as a selling point for noobs. Their (Sansamp)products are designed to do one job - amp emulation. I have not used all their various models but the ones I have tried have generally surprised me with their ability to sound they way they claim - which is something the budget "modeling"/silent practice/home recording amps never really manage to pull off, at least to my ear. |
|
|
|
Vox AV30?
Sept 11, 2017 16:00:04 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Quint on Sept 11, 2017 16:00:04 GMT -6
I took a look at the Liverpool. I had heard of them before but never really looked into them. From what I'm reading, it looks more or less like the Vox AV30 (they both do their amp modeling in the analog realm), but in a pedal form and with less amp types modeled (1 vs 8), though it is also cheaper. How does the Liverpool sound, in your opinion? I guess what interests me in the AV30 over options like the Liverpool is that it has different models all in one unit instead of having to buy a different unit from Tech 21 (or another maker) for each different amp type. Granted, these are ALL a compromise compared to a real tube amp miced in a room but, if one must record SILENTLY (not just at a lower volume) then I'm interested in finding the best option out there to accomplish that. That's why I kind of soured on reactive load stuff. The concept sounds like a good idea but it seems like most people say the tone suffers pretty bad when turned down to the point where the amp is completely silent. Plus, not all of my amps (or amps a band may bring in) necessarily have a speaker output. Thus far, the AV30 seems to meet my requirements the best, but I would still be interested in options which offer the same capabilities (line out for silent recording, cabinet emulation on the line out, multiple amp models, no digital modeling of amp models, similar price range). The emulation of multiple amp types is not a MUST but is preferred, where as the speaker cab included with the AV30 is simply a bonus and not required. I'd actually prefer just an amp head but don't mind paying for the cab if it meets all of my other requirements, such as with the AV30. Oh, and it appears that the AV30 may actually sound pretty good, especially for the price. Well, since you seem hell-bent on purchasing this amp go ahead and for your sake I genuinely hope that I'm wrong about it, but I just went back to the listing on the Vox website and there was so much BS and doubletallk on the "overview" page alone that the red flags were waving in my face like a toreador baiting a bull at a bullfight. And the "specs" page wasn't any more reassuring. How can an amp rated at 30 watts output only have a power consumption of 27? Have they invented free energy out of nowhere? I'm sure that the DOE would love to hear about that! My bullshit detector is screaming. And if they make boneheaded mistakes on the specs page how can anyone believe anything they say? And regardless of what the sales weasels would have you believe, NO "silent amp" is going to really sound that great. If every other inexpensive amp featuring "silent speaker emulation" doesn't sound very good in that mode why would you think that this one would be any different just on the basis of the sales literature? As far as the so-called "analog amp modeling" is concerned, for decades companies have been trying to make solid state amps, with or without the addition of gratuitous tubes, that can do a convincing emulation of a good tube amp. I've never heard one that's succeeded and most of the ones I've heard (even the more expensive ones) suck pretty hard. Actually, change that to "all the ones". Now, I'll be the first to say that I haven't heard every amp in the world, so the possibility does exist that I may have missed something. But I really doubt that I would not have become aware of something that revolutionary. If you DO end up buying it, please make sure you have an unconditional 30 day right of return, no questions asked. Good luck! Dude.... I DON'T CARE! I don't need lectures from you on the finer points of tube amps versus everything else. I own or have owned quite a few ALL tube amps over the years and have been playing guitar for nearly 25 years. I can assure you, I'm walking into this with my eyes completely open. I never have said that I'm expecting the AV30 or anything else to sound just as good as an ALL tube amp miced up in a room. Why do I have to keep repeating that? From the get go I've acknowledged and accept the compromises of tracking silently. It is what it is. Sometimes there is just a need to track silently. I'm just trying to live within the constraints of those compromises and find the least objectionable solution. Please leave it alone. You're just muddying up the original intention of this thread, which is to ask opinions from anyone who may have played the AV30 and, by extension, if any other similar products exist that allow silent recording and for which someone might have a real world opinion. Nothing more. Nothing less. |
|
|
|
Post by Quint on Sept 12, 2017 10:44:21 GMT -6
I took a look at the Liverpool. I had heard of them before but never really looked into them. From what I'm reading, it looks more or less like the Vox AV30 (they both do their amp modeling in the analog realm), but in a pedal form and with less amp types modeled (1 vs 8), though it is also cheaper. How does the Liverpool sound, in your opinion? I guess what interests me in the AV30 over options like the Liverpool is that it has different models all in one unit instead of having to buy a different unit from Tech 21 (or another maker) for each different amp type. The Liverpool is a professional piece of equipment, made by the company that invented this product in the first place (SansAmp), with decades of experience in the analog amp emulation field. It can emulate a few different sorts of Vox amps, with the continous "character" knob. It sounds excellent to my ears. A few years ago I bought the Vox Amplug, thinking "how bad can it be for quick practice at home". I returned it the next day. So I'm looking more into the Liverpool or the Blonde. I might also see if I can find a used Sansamp Classic somewhere. I'm also now interested in the Two Notes LeClean and/or LeCrunch. Ever used one of those? I guess I should also mention that, whatever I end up ultimately choosing, it needs to be able to handle various pedals in front of it as well. |
|
|
|
Post by stormymondays on Sept 12, 2017 11:05:38 GMT -6
The Blonde is pretty good too. I don't own it, but a friend of mine does. I think you could find a dealer with a good return policy and try them.
|
|
|
|
Post by iamasound on Sept 12, 2017 16:05:26 GMT -6
My recommendations from personal experience: For silent tracking: get the Tech 21 Liverpool. Record that and the DI and you're golden. The smallest tube amp that doesn't sound like a toy is the Vox AC4C1, with a 10" speaker. The AC4TV sounds marginally better than a battery powered toy amp. I got the AC4TV for stupid cheap, put it through a 12" Greenback and am really liking it. It is much more balanced now as the bottom end can be readily expressed, unlike with the 10" speaker as it comes with . I' m sure that when I swap out the tubes with old Phillips bulbs that I have in my drawer it will be surely even more to my liking. |
|
|
|
Post by stormymondays on Sept 12, 2017 16:30:58 GMT -6
Damn right it comes with a 10" and not 8". Maybe I tried a different version?
|
|
|
|
Vox AV30?
Sept 12, 2017 16:59:38 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Quint on Sept 12, 2017 16:59:38 GMT -6
Any of you guys ever play through a Two Notes C.A.B. or a BluGuitar BluBox? I'm interested in the possibility of running a preamp pedal through a convolution based cab sim.
|
|
|
|
Vox AV30?
Sept 12, 2017 18:21:11 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Quint on Sept 12, 2017 18:21:11 GMT -6
The Blonde is pretty good too. I don't own it, but a friend of mine does. I think you could find a dealer with a good return policy and try them. I know you said you liked the sound of the Liverpool. Would that be with the cab sim turned on or off? Or both? |
|
|
|
Post by donr on Sept 12, 2017 23:11:04 GMT -6
Any of you guys ever play through a Two Notes C.A.B. or a BluGuitar BluBox? I'm interested in the possibility of running a preamp pedal through a convolution based cab sim. I've come to think convolution cab sims are the bomb, after using the Two-Notes Torpedo for a couple years now. I like pushing my guitar stage rig through a real amp with real tubes, I find the sweet spot for the power tubes about 45% on the master volume.) It's typically a JCM 900, and I use the clean channel pushed about 75% gain, which is crunchy but capable of clean with volume roll off on the guitar. I haven't used the Two-Notes instrument/line level product, but I HAVE used the Two-Notes power amp sim in addition to the real amp sound. I add just a bit of Two-Notes 6L6 push-pull to the cab and mic IR's. I have great affection for class a/b 6L6 sound, and I blend in a bit of it to the Marshall powertube sound, and it's all good. I dial in my sound at the check with in-ear monitors with the stage sound off, so I'm not fooling myself with the added beef of the stage sound. I know exactly what I'm giving the FOH, and when I put the stage cab in and hear it throught the vocal mic leakage, it just adds vibe but I know what's going out front, and what the leakage adds to the FOH too. Convolution cab IR's are becoming the rage these days, but Two-Notes were the first to make it happen. Certainly from a live POV, giving the FOH the same mic'ed cab sound no matter what the gig, indoors, outdoors, honky or sweet venue, has proved stellar, compared to analog cab sims in my experience. Quint, try one out and see if it works for you. I know I can't do better in my home setup than what Two-Notes offers for cab/mic/room options. And it lets me use my real amps without deafening my family or neighbors. |
|
|
|
Vox AV30?
Sept 13, 2017 1:17:38 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by stormymondays on Sept 13, 2017 1:17:38 GMT -6
The Blonde is pretty good too. I don't own it, but a friend of mine does. I think you could find a dealer with a good return policy and try them. I know you said you liked the sound of the Liverpool. Would that be with the cab sim turned on or off? Or both? When I use it, it's always with the sim on. |
|
|
|
Vox AV30?
Sept 13, 2017 6:28:48 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Quint on Sept 13, 2017 6:28:48 GMT -6
Any of you guys ever play through a Two Notes C.A.B. or a BluGuitar BluBox? I'm interested in the possibility of running a preamp pedal through a convolution based cab sim. I've come to think convolution cab sims are the bomb, after using the Two-Notes Torpedo for a couple years now. I like pushing my guitar stage rig through a real amp with real tubes, I find the sweet spot for the power tubes about 45% on the master volume.) It's typically a JCM 900, and I use the clean channel pushed about 75% gain, which is crunchy but capable of clean with volume roll off on the guitar. I haven't used the Two-Notes instrument/line level product, but I HAVE used the Two-Notes power amp sim in addition to the real amp sound. I add just a bit of Two-Notes 6L6 push-pull to the cab and mic IR's. I have great affection for class a/b 6L6 sound, and I blend in a bit of it to the Marshall powertube sound, and it's all good. I dial in my sound at the check with in-ear monitors with the stage sound off, so I'm not fooling myself with the added beef of the stage sound. I know exactly what I'm giving the FOH, and when I put the stage cab in and hear it throught the vocal mic leakage, it just adds vibe but I know what's going out front, and what the leakage adds to the FOH too. Convolution cab IR's are becoming the rage these days, but Two-Notes were the first to make it happen. Certainly from a live POV, giving the FOH the same mic'ed cab sound no matter what the gig, indoors, outdoors, honky or sweet venue, has proved stellar, compared to analog cab sims in my experience. Quint, try one out and see if it works for you. I know I can't do better in my home setup than what Two-Notes offers for cab/mic/room options. And it lets me use my real amps without deafening my family or neighbors. I've always been pretty traditional when it comes to recording guitar amps. Get the amp sounding good and put a mic in front of it. I've been aware of cab IRs but I've never given them any real consideration. The last thing I want to do, while during tracking, is to fool around with finding and loading IRs, latency issues, mousing around in the DAW, etc. That's a total buzz kill. Now I find out that there are some pedals that can do this with a simple user interface. My mind may be changing on avoiding cab IRs. What else is out there beside the Two Notes CAB stuff and the BluBox? |
|
|
|
Post by donr on Sept 13, 2017 7:45:58 GMT -6
In my band, Richie Castellano is using a Line6 Helix which lets you use your own cab IR's if you want to, and that's what he does.
He also uses a Variax guitar on one tune which 'plays' a Taylor acoustic IR, and it sounds killer for the purpose and much more convenient than lugging/mic'ing an acoustic for the one tune.
We did a few huge metal festivals in Europe this summer, and about half the metal bands were using Kempers instead of real amps.
|
|
|
|
Vox AV30?
Sept 13, 2017 9:23:32 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Quint on Sept 13, 2017 9:23:32 GMT -6
In my band, Richie Castellano is using a Line6 Helix which lets you use your own cab IR's if you want to, and that's what he does. He also uses a Variax guitar on one tune which 'plays' a Taylor acoustic IR, and it sounds killer for the purpose and much more convenient than lugging/mic'ing an acoustic for the one tune. We did a few huge metal festivals in Europe this summer, and about half the metal bands were using Kempers instead of real amps. I guess I should clarify that I'm primarily looking at these options for recording, not live use. And, though I AM interested in IRs for cabs, I intend to keep the rest of the chain analog. I've done the digital amp thing before and I don't want to go back. |
|
|
|
Post by donr on Sept 13, 2017 12:33:20 GMT -6
If I had a big nice sounding live room I'd leave an amp mic'ed up all the time. But I don't. I've got basically a control room that doesn't sound too evil with a mic up in the room. It sounds pretty good actually.
|
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 15, 2017 8:52:15 GMT -6
Don, is Richie related to the Castellano family that had a music store in Brooklyn?
|
|
|
|
Vox AV30?
Sept 16, 2017 19:53:27 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Quint on Sept 16, 2017 19:53:27 GMT -6
So I'm leaning toward just getting the Two Notes C.A.B. for now and running the preamp out (fx send), on those amps of mine that have an fx loop, into the C.A.B. to see how that treats me. I can always get some preamp pedals down the road.
|
|
|
|
Post by guitfiddler on Oct 4, 2017 11:44:37 GMT -6
A real amp with Mercury Magnetics mods both Transformers and a choke!! Instant Amp Nirvana!!! Buy the amp used. I did my Peavey Classic 30. I had the amp for about 12 years and the power output transformer went. I bought the amp for $250 the mods cost me about $300 back then. It just sounds beautiful, like a top amp!!! Just an idea...You can ask the guys at Mercury Magnetics, they are very informative. That Peavey classic 30 sounded better than any stock amps that I have heard for under $1000. There are several amps out there you can mod. I don't really recommend modding the Peavey though, pain in the butt, not much room and quite difficult, I would say it was very much worth the effort though. I ended up selling it to a buddy and now I want to buy it back! www.mercurymagnetics.com/pages/mainframe.htm |
|
|
|
Vox AV30?
Oct 5, 2017 17:35:23 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Quint on Oct 5, 2017 17:35:23 GMT -6
A real amp with Mercury Magnetics mods both Transformers and a choke!! Instant Amp Nirvana!!! Buy the amp used. I did my Peavey Classic 30. I had the amp for about 12 years and the power output transformer went. I bought the amp for $250 the mods cost me about $300 back then. It just sounds beautiful, like a top amp!!! Just an idea...You can ask the guys at Mercury Magnetics, they are very informative. That Peavey classic 30 sounded better than any stock amps that I have heard for under $1000. There are several amps out there you can mod. I don't really recommend modding the Peavey though, pain in the butt, not much room and quite difficult, I would say it was very much worth the effort though. I ended up selling it to a buddy and now I want to buy it back! www.mercurymagnetics.com/pages/mainframe.htmI actually have a Peavey Classic 50 that I really like. I swapped out the stock speakers for Celestion greenbacks, but that's the only mod I've done. That amp roars. I love it. That being said, even a choke wouldn't achieve what I'm trying to do. I ended up ordering the Two Notes C.A.B. I'm going to run the fx loop out of the Peavey to the Two Notes and see how that goes. I also intend to try it with other amps of mine that have an fx loop. If I like it, I may even consider getting some of my non-fx loop amps modded to add an fx loop/preamp output just for this purpose. We shall see. |
|
