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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 1, 2018 14:59:15 GMT -6
I know most people poo poo the whole digital modeling thing, but for some of us, this is really a fantastic option. I've had my Kemper (on and off lol) for years and it was by far the best solution I had found. There was just nothing else that I could plug in, hit record and get that type of sound without the hassle. Until this thing. I had the Pod and Pod xt...bright and shrill like most of the others. So, I honestly never really bothered with Line6 after that. But the siren call of gear lust had me looking to sell the old Kemper to raise funds for more Pro Audio gear - as most of my demos don't sling much electric guitar and most of my income comes from mixing.
I tried all the contenders - Amplitube, S-Gear and others...but had ultimately decided to just keep the Kemper. Amplitube actually sounds pretty good to my ears, but the endless tweaking to make it sound good and the fumbling with all the different modules was more than I wanted to deal with. Just on a lark, I downloaded the Helix Native thinking it would be just like all the others. Well - it's not. It's pretty damn amazing. It has the bloom and dynamics from the amps that I just miss with everything else. The Vox, Matchless, Supro, 2204...a bunch of them...just sound phenomenal. I find myself choosing the Royer or the 160 Ribbons on the cabs - it makes an enormous difference - so there's that tweaking that needs to be done...but you can obviously save presets. I would venture to say - gasp - I like it better than the Kemper. Now, I've yet to deal with the PITA that tracking EG's in a fully built song is going to be. All of the turning this off to get this to work at 128 buffers...Don't really look forward to that. So - that's definitely a drawback. But soundwise - I swear I think I like it better. Just sold the Kemper and pocketed $1200.
The effects are just killer too.
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Post by rob61 on Jun 3, 2018 13:09:28 GMT -6
I was thinking of buying a Kemper, but once I tried the Helix Native, decided to go with that and $ave! Clients like it too.
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Post by iamasound on Jun 3, 2018 23:55:35 GMT -6
I never could get with any software modeling ITB before I tried the Helix. To me it is far and away the best option if I cannot for whatever reason mic a guitar up. And as I have only but a few hardware amp options, it is great to have many other in software finally at my disposal. I have also found that Helix is also quieter than the other software, maybe because the gate is better implemented, but for whatever reason, it ticks off all my boxes for ease of use, playability and most importantly, the sound.
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Post by donr on Jun 5, 2018 23:14:26 GMT -6
Richie Castellano, my guitar counterpart and foil in BOC, plays the Helix live and uses the software version too.
He's an expert and gets a great sound out of it. He's got youtube instruction and examples of the hardware side which would be informative about the Helix line. He'd probably answer specific questions here too.
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Post by Ward on Jun 6, 2018 5:34:36 GMT -6
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Post by mikec on Jun 9, 2018 10:42:50 GMT -6
I downloaded and tried the demo yesterday. I thought it sounded OK, but I couldn't get it to sound as good as the Kemper. The real killer for me was the CPU usage. I can usually track everything at a buffer of 64 but with the Helix software I couldn't use a buffer that was low enough to track without significant latency. Maybe I didn't have something set up correctly, but I am able to track midi keyboard parts at 64 buffer so not sure what I would change that would make a difference. I was using a Retro Powerstrip as the guitar preamp into the Symphony MKII into Pro Tools. I was hoping this would be another alternative but I guess I will be sticking to micing a good tube amp or using the Kemper.
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Post by iamasound on Jun 10, 2018 0:14:22 GMT -6
I downloaded and tried the demo yesterday. I thought it sounded OK, but I couldn't get it to sound as good as the Kemper. The real killer for me was the CPU usage. I can usually track everything at a buffer of 64 but with the Helix software I couldn't use a buffer that was low enough to track without significant latency. Maybe I didn't have something set up correctly, but I am able to track midi keyboard parts at 64 buffer so not sure what I would change that would make a difference. I was using a Retro Powerstrip as the guitar preamp into the Symphony MKII into Pro Tools. I was hoping this would be another alternative but I guess I will be sticking to micing a good tube amp or using the Kemper. Maybe try different sample rate, higher or lower may make a difference. Helix does put a hit on cpu so if I use it instead of micing a cab I ger rid of all most other plugins and/or instruments. Some patches stress my computer more than others. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 10, 2018 15:21:33 GMT -6
Hmm. I've been surprised at how light it has been on the resources. I just recently ran three in a session...but maybe I froze something before anticipating a hit.
Anyway - did you change the mics on the cabs? I found that you have to use the Ribbon mics in almost all instances. I think it also matters what DI/Pre you're using to get into the computer...
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Post by mikec on Jun 11, 2018 13:12:44 GMT -6
I'm going to give the demo another try. It was strange that my system usage meter was running very low usage when I was just using input monitoring to play around with the presents then when I hit the record button it just went crazy. I've not had any other software do that. Maybe I will delete it and reinstall.
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Post by donr on Jun 13, 2018 15:33:56 GMT -6
Hmm. I've been surprised at how light it has been on the resources. I just recently ran three in a session...but maybe I froze something before anticipating a hit. Anyway - did you change the mics on the cabs? I found that you have to use the Ribbon mics in almost all instances. I think it also matters what DI/Pre you're using to get into the computer... Good tip on the cabs and mics. The default mic and placement might not be how you'd normally want to hear an amp recorded. That said, I've yet to hear any sim that sounds as good as a Kemper. Because the Kemper is stealing the soul of a real amp and microphone, not modeling it. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 13, 2018 16:02:46 GMT -6
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Post by donr on Jun 13, 2018 16:15:27 GMT -6
The Helix software? No, but I've played Richie Castellano's live rig, and I hear Richie's live stream and podcast, he's all Helix these days. It's solid stuff, and it can do just about anything, any routing, etc. Line6 is making great stuff. Their G series guitar wireless is bulletproof. I even use the G10 to record with sometimes. I still think a great Kemper profile can win the "That's an amp! (No it isn't!)" blind test. |
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Post by Ward on Jun 14, 2018 12:18:46 GMT -6
Hmm. I've been surprised at how light it has been on the resources. I just recently ran three in a session...but maybe I froze something before anticipating a hit. Anyway - did you change the mics on the cabs? I found that you have to use the Ribbon mics in almost all instances. I think it also matters what DI/Pre you're using to get into the computer... Good tip on the cabs and mics. The default mic and placement might not be how you'd normally want to hear an amp recorded. That said, I've yet to hear any sim that sounds as good as a Kemper. Because the Kemper is stealing the soul of a real amp and microphone, not modeling it. I have GOT to know what models or presets you are using. Did you make your own? I have heard so many that fall flat, and clearly that is not all there is to it . . . because people I trust, who know the difference swear by them!! |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 15, 2018 9:30:37 GMT -6
I think I cycled through the presets once. Delete all the blocks. Start with the DrZ amp as an example. Change the mic in the cab section to a 121 or 160. Add reverb in another block. Click on mono/stereo/legacy and select the legacy room. Pull the mix down a tad. Now add a delay block to your liking.
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Post by donr on Jun 18, 2018 15:55:18 GMT -6
Good tip on the cabs and mics. The default mic and placement might not be how you'd normally want to hear an amp recorded. That said, I've yet to hear any sim that sounds as good as a Kemper. Because the Kemper is stealing the soul of a real amp and microphone, not modeling it. I have GOT to know what models or presets you are using. Did you make your own? I have heard so many that fall flat, and clearly that is not all there is to it . . . because people I trust, who know the difference swear by them!! Geez Ward, I just try out the profiles until I find one I like then I mark it as a favorite. I've also profiled some of my stuff, and I'm satisfied that the profile sounds virtually identical to the real amp and mic. There must be many thousands of profiles online to choose from. If it's a good amp in a good room, recorded competently, it's gonna be a good profile. Here's a guitar lead I did recently for Albert Bouchard, BOC's original drummer, for an as yet unreleased record of Michael Moorcock's songs. It's my rough mix, my tracks added to the .mp3 they sent me to play on. The guitar is a Keisel Vader, a neck-through solid body, into the Kemper. The profile is of a 1964 Fender Super Reverb. The author credit says "Resnor," but I don't know if was Trent. To me, it sounded like, and played like it could be a real Super Reverb. Which of course it was, at the time it was profiled. What do you think? www.dropbox.com/s/6mm0e0irxpxb9px/Guit%20for%20Ward%20mix.mp3?dl=0 |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 18, 2018 20:13:50 GMT -6
Michael Britt Profiles...killer.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 18, 2018 20:15:19 GMT -6
I have GOT to know what models or presets you are using. Did you make your own? I have heard so many that fall flat, and clearly that is not all there is to it . . . because people I trust, who know the difference swear by them!! Geez Ward, I just try out the profiles until I find one I like then I mark it as a favorite. I've also profiled some of my stuff, and I'm satisfied that the profile sounds virtually identical to the real amp and mic. There must be many thousands of profiles online to choose from. If it's a good amp in a good room, recorded competently, it's gonna be a good profile. Here's a guitar lead I did recently for Albert Bouchard, BOC's original drummer, for an as yet unreleased record of Michael Moorcock's songs. It's my rough mix, my tracks added to the .mp3 they sent me to play on. The guitar is a Keisel Vader, a neck-through solid body, into the Kemper. The profile is of a 1964 Fender Super Reverb. The author credit says "Resnor," but I don't know if was Trent. To me, it sounded like, and played like it could be a real Super Reverb. Which of course it was, at the time it was profiled. What do you think? www.dropbox.com/s/6mm0e0irxpxb9px/Guit%20for%20Ward%20mix.mp3?dl=0This isn't just to blow smoke, but when you play like you do, you could make anything sound good. But yeah - that sounds really good. |
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Post by Ward on Jun 19, 2018 8:43:30 GMT -6
Sounds fantastic, Don! So, is that the KV in your profile picture there? Has a lot of fender single coil sound going on in the bridge position. Like a hard tail Strat And the amp tone is totally believable! I have GOT to know what models or presets you are using. Did you make your own? I have heard so many that fall flat, and clearly that is not all there is to it . . . because people I trust, who know the difference swear by them!! Geez Ward, I just try out the profiles until I find one I like then I mark it as a favorite. I've also profiled some of my stuff, and I'm satisfied that the profile sounds virtually identical to the real amp and mic. There must be many thousands of profiles online to choose from. If it's a good amp in a good room, recorded competently, it's gonna be a good profile. Here's a guitar lead I did recently for Albert Bouchard, BOC's original drummer, for an as yet unreleased record of Michael Moorcock's songs. It's my rough mix, my tracks added to the .mp3 they sent me to play on. The guitar is a Keisel Vader, a neck-through solid body, into the Kemper. The profile is of a 1964 Fender Super Reverb. The author credit says "Resnor," but I don't know if was Trent. To me, it sounded like, and played like it could be a real Super Reverb. Which of course it was, at the time it was profiled. What do you think? www.dropbox.com/s/6mm0e0irxpxb9px/Guit%20for%20Ward%20mix.mp3?dl=0 |
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Post by donr on Jun 19, 2018 12:38:42 GMT -6
Sounds fantastic, Don! So, is that the KV in your profile picture there? Has a lot of fender single coil sound going on in the bridge position. Like a hard tail Strat And the amp tone is totally believable! Geez Ward, I just try out the profiles until I find one I like then I mark it as a favorite. I've also profiled some of my stuff, and I'm satisfied that the profile sounds virtually identical to the real amp and mic. There must be many thousands of profiles online to choose from. If it's a good amp in a good room, recorded competently, it's gonna be a good profile. Here's a guitar lead I did recently for Albert Bouchard, BOC's original drummer, for an as yet unreleased record of Michael Moorcock's songs. It's my rough mix, my tracks added to the .mp3 they sent me to play on. The guitar is a Keisel Vader, a neck-through solid body, into the Kemper. The profile is of a 1964 Fender Super Reverb. The author credit says "Resnor," but I don't know if was Trent. To me, it sounded like, and played like it could be a real Super Reverb. Which of course it was, at the time it was profiled. What do you think? www.dropbox.com/s/6mm0e0irxpxb9px/Guit%20for%20Ward%20mix.mp3?dl=0Thanks Ward, and JK. The guitar in my Avatar photo is The Cheeseberger, a Steinberger GM with custom body made by the Nashville Steinberger shop just before Gibson closed it down. Here's a picture of the Keisel Vader. While it's wired to split the coils, what you heard is the humbucker. Keisel's humbuckers are much brighter than Gibson's. I typically roll of a bit off tone with them.  |
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Post by donr on Jun 21, 2018 15:49:40 GMT -6
A thought about why guitar sims have gotten so much better sounding than they had been recently.
The widespread adaption of Cab and mic IR's is why they sound so good these days, I'm thinking. The Helix uses IR's and will play third party IR's as well. So does the Positive Grid Bias system, and that sounds great as well.
I've been using the Two-Notes Torpedo Cab IR's for several years now, and it gets me consistent results for FOH and in-ears even though I'm still using real tubes to get to that point.
In experimenting with different speakers and cabinets, they make a bigger difference to amp tone than just about any other variation or parameter.
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Post by matt on Jun 22, 2018 8:58:55 GMT -6
A thought about why guitar sims have gotten so much better sounding than they had been recently. The widespread adaption of Cab and mic IR's is why they sound so good these days I've been using the Two-Notes Torpedo Cab IR's for several years now I've been using a Torpedo Studio for three years and it is excellent- flexible, rugged (takes a 100W Marshall with no problems) and provides spot-on cabinet simulation. I'm interested in the Helix, but bought a Kemper after much internal debate and am just now integrating it into my recording process. With all the options available, it's a great time to be a guitarist. |
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Oct 20, 2019 13:27:42 GMT -6
Johnkenn, I guess you have brought another kemper by now.  One option that I am looking at is the HX Stomp. This apparently sounds the same as helix. This would allow me to track monitoring the HX stomp and use DI at higher buffer. I am about to sell my kemper and downsize to a small floor unit. I may hold out for the Fractal FM3.
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Post by LesC on Oct 20, 2019 17:02:46 GMT -6
I sold my Kemper a while ago and bought a Helix Floor. I loved the sound and the flexibility and ease of use, but it was just too big for my little control room. I was ecstatic when the HX Stomp came out and have been living happily with it ever since. It allows tracking with and without effects simultaneously, digital with no extra conversion, so reamping is a breeze. I also have the Helix software, which I haven't tried yet, but I understand it sounds identical. As sideshow said, the HX Stomp allows for latency-free monitoring. I think the Stomp is also a great DI, so I no longer have to worry about that. Plux Line 6 is constantly updating with new models and presets, for free!
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Post by donr on Oct 21, 2019 13:58:50 GMT -6
Eric Bloom now uses an HX Stomp live with BOC into the effect return of a Mesa Recto.
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Oct 21, 2019 16:54:36 GMT -6
Very interesting. Maybe i'll get the HX instead of waiting for the FM3.
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