Lets talk Acoustic Guitars

Hand made acoustics by Scott Liebers. I've had the luck to record 2 of them and they sound amazing! Now I want to sell my acoustic and buy one of his.

Well, the 2 I heard where owned by others then Scott. One was really a great singer songwriter kind of guitar and the other was more of a flat picking kind of instrument. It felt like a race car! Both sounded really great and very easy to record. If I could get something in between the 2 to have around for the studio I would be very happy.

I will say they made the other guitars around here sound like boxes with strings on them. Kind of depressing. haha

I'm always happy to talk about guitars.  It's a nice distraction from wires and electrons (unless we're talking electric guitars of course).
I know well about your quest for the perfect guitar John.  I began building them as a result of not finding what I liked, or could afford. 
Let's face it, a pre-war Martin is probably not in the cards for most of us.  There are many fine modern guitars being built, but I've found that the factory ones usually aren't as consistent in tone.  I often walk into a music store and play 20 or so big name guitars only to find one that tickles my ear and inspires me to want to play it.  Sometimes nothing on the rack does the job.
I build all my instruments with traditional techniques.  I use hot hide glue for all of the sound box assembly.  I do feel it makes a difference in tone.  In addition, I tune the braces to be as resonant as possible.  Tops are usually thinner than a factory model as well.  All those little details add up for better tone in my opinion.  The down side to all of this is the guitar moves more during season changes.  High or low humidity conditions make the top move up or down often requiring a summer saddle and a winter saddle.  It's a pretty common thing for the vintage acoustics to require this as well.
I also usually use the forward Martin X bracing which opens the top up a bit more as well just like the vintage Martins.  Again, there's a tradeoff in terms of tone vs. strength.  A forward X braced top will move more with weather changes.  
Most of these techniques have been abandoned for the mass produced factory models.  Hot hide glue is a pain to work with and takes more prep time for setup and clamping.  Tops and braces became thicker and the X brace was moved back towards the bridge to cut down on repairs necessary for neglected guitars.  That's why Martin abandoned the pre-war specs, too many warranty repairs.  Martin still makes some special vintage spec'd instruments as well as many smaller luthiers, but the customer must take care of them.  They must be humidified properly, not left in a hot car, don't leave it strung to pitch and store it under your bed for a year, etc.
IMHO, I've not found many of the standard factory models that floated my boat.
I do have a Martin D-18V Golden era I bought used a few years ago.  It sounds huge, but does lose some of tone balance going up the neck, it's almost better as a rhythm guitar.  
Don't know if any of this pertains specifically to the topic, but at least I got to talk guitar geek for a while.

Thanks, Scott - great to see you here...I just sold a D-18 GE for the D-28V...Both sound great...I guess I just need about three different Acoustics to change as the mood strikes...

I do wish I had some better examples for you guys. When I did this track, I'd just gotten my Blackspade U17 and was unfamiliar with it. I mic'd this track much too close, so I've subsequently EQ'd the acoustic to compensate. Still, you'll get a taste of the Turbo. This is New Mantra music, so it's repetitive by nature.

I'l post some details about the Turbo in a bit..



* DAMN,  I just posted a Wave file to the dropbox link above, and it stutters when I try to play it back. Let me know if that happens to you as well, and if I have to, I'll run an mp3 and post that.

Will try running an mp3.. give me a minute or two ;-)...

try this, please let me know if it works, ( I hate Dropbox, it never works for me, it's always something)

dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Public/Love%20Above%20Me%20II.mp3?w=AAD6mhc2CceRzPK0FKgD8ZLZfn10pvNtkSV7e2goNqw_BA

This is from Mandolin Bros regarding the Martin D-41 Turbo. They've since changed the neck width at the nut, I prefer mine, which is 1/16" wider, Also, of the 11 made to my specs, only two were sunburst, and mine was the better one. So, I have a "2 of a kind" Martin. Stan jay at Mandolin Bros. a bit full of himself and a little hot air, but he sure as hell made the best Martin I've ever heard. It was so over my budget that I left it at the shop. I went to every store in Manhattan, and tried every single Martin available above $2,000, some were crazy, $10,000 models. Mine just killed them. It's a little like finding a Stradivarius, so I feel lucky. After you read this, I'd like to come back down to earth, and discuss tracking with acoustics a little.

"Founded in December 1971, this Staten Island, New York-based firm has set new standards many times over in the acquisition and presentation of the finest quality American Fretted Instruments. In the short and cursory version its features include Premium Adirondack top, and East Indian rosewood sides and back, ¼" advanced X forward-shifted scalloped bracing, bone nut and saddle, genuine mahogany neck, black ebony fingerboard and bridge, 1 3/4" nut width, six high quality gold-plated butterbean button tuners, and the deluxe and plush lined Geib style hard shell case. But, with your permission, we’d like to dwell on its resources.

Going back over thirty four years we have been working with the C F Martin Guitar Company to produce guitars (built by Martin) that this most famous acoustic guitar company does not itself build. Fact is, we initiated both the C F Martin Custom Shop and the now accepted notion of the “Reissue” guitar back in 1977 with an unprecedented order for 250 D-28 Herringbone Reissues and 91 D-45 Reissues. These original guitars have become legendary. We now present you with an extremely special instrument, one that we consider to be one of this revered company’s finest dreadnought guitars as they have ever built – a guitar that they, themselves, do not make and to the best of our memory have never made. That is: a Martin D-41 “Turbo,” festooned with abalone top inlay and abalone soundhole border but with an internal structure and wood choice that makes it better sounding, better looking, and, darn it, exceedingly collectible. Normally a generic Martin D-41 is a great guitar – crispy and clean in every register, yielding great depth of tone, sustain and balance. But we felt it could be improved – so we have had Martin place the internal braces in the “Advanced X, Forward Shifted” (or DOMLE) position to allow a larger area of the top to vibrate unimpeded, and we have them use Adirondack “Red” Spruce for the face, just as they did on their prewar guitars; we have them use one-quarter (1/4”) inch Adirondack bracing instead of the standard 5/16”(“big and meaty” Sitka) and this combination produces both significantly greater volume and a faster rise time – which is the time it takes the note to become fully formed following plucking and the alacrity with which they reach the audience. On this guitar that speed is enhanced so dramatically that the lightest touch will literally fill the room in which is played with radiant sonority. In addition, this latest incarnation of the D-41 Turbo has a couple of surprises – because so many players asked for it this batch has the 1 3/4” nut width so that our fingers can feel just as comfortable as we do when we play it; and it has gold-plated, butterbean button, open gear tuners to better balance the neck. The neck is made from genuine mahogany and the fingerboard and bridge from blackest ebony.

We present to you a fancy dreadnought that is “beyond words” fine. Wait until you hear it!! It is like nothing else you have ever encountered – simply one of the best sounding and beautiful new Martin dreadnought guitars as any one who tries it has ever played or heard. It has the greatly desired all-solid Adirondack “Red-to-its-friends” spruce top, and the choicest all-solid East Indian rosewood sides and back. It has Advanced X-Forward shifty-looking scalloped braces, like your grandfather would have had, if he had only had better posture, and not only that but the braces inside the guitar (unseen by the human eye) are only one-quarter inch in width instead of the more typical 5/16th”. Wow! What incredible sound that produces! It thunders like a lightning storm over the Grand Canyon, and like the Grand Canyon (carved to scale) it comes with the #535 Series (deluxe) Geib Style hard shell hard shell case, which is another thing regular D-41 guitars do not come with. Of course it has the white bindings and the abalone soundhole, hexagonal mother of pearl fingerboard inlays in a jet black ‘board. Your friends will be stunned into utter silence; your family not so much (“Put that away, it’s making me crazy.”) Everybody who hears this wants it and this is why we are letting people into the showroom only 2 at a time until it sells; it’s just too overwhelming for large groups. Your cost on this extremely fine, unobtainable on the standard market, guitar, is less than even three monthly payments on a leased PorscheTestarossa© which features Bosch K-Jetronic Fuel Injection and a set of five louvered radiator intakes on each door. The difference is that you get to keep the guitar forever, long after the lease on the sports car expires.

We are providing you a once-in-a-decade opportunity to please yourself in ways that you may never before have thought possible. [No, not that way.] We call it a “Turbo-Charged” dreadnought because every note you play on it sounds as humongous, the response as visceral, the feeling of pride in ownership induplicable, as what you feel when you stomp on the accelerator of a powerful racing automobile (yes, back to that metaphor again). Your seeing it, playing it and hearing it will, we vouchsafe you, be an eye and ear-opening experience, but thankfully not very much of a wallet-opening one."

Thanks! The Taylor is pretty nice but nowhere near your Martin; the Tak is a cheapie.

Now, the Lester, sneaking in on the left: that is a different story.

That write up sounds like the Scott Liebers acoustics from my experience with them and his description of how the are made. I'm not a guitar player but I have built close to 1500 electric guitars by hand. So I know a great instrument. The Liebers guitars are so responsive it was crazy. I was blown away at the sustain and even tone. I have always wanted to build an acoustic but that is another level guitar building. At this point in my life I'm just keeping my eye out for a deal I can't pass up on a great older acoustic or see if I can get Scott to build me one.

Recording question

I have mostly recorded dreadnought size bodies. What if any is the advantage to the 000 size guitars? In my mind one that is built with the above details could be a fantastic recording guitar.

Dang, I hate dropbox. I'll try Soundcloud.. give me a minute..

Please try this, I'm getting frustrated:

soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/love-above-me-7-27-13-ii

I agree with his thoughts. To much bracing and heavy paint kills tone. I have no idea how much it will open up. I'd start by sanding down some bracing.


I thought about doing the same but I'm looking for a different guitar.  Haha

got it mjb, sounds pretty sweet! what gauge strings you using to record with? and are you filtering off the bottom? 

Same question for you Dan?

I've been using 11 lately, i'm think i'm digging it, need more time though.