|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Mar 5, 2020 11:17:59 GMT -6
I have to write this because it's such an interesting one to me:
Setting the stage:
With all the health problems of my son, I had really not played guitar much for the past 24 months, which is friggin' crazy. By far the longest and deepest dry period for me in over 30 years.
Setting the stage, Pt. 2:
I have been playing with essentially the exact same type of guitar pick for 30 yrs: A Fender 346 (large rounded triangle) Medium thickness. I tried various other options occasionally, but that was the pick that always felt right.
What happened:
For various reasons, I started playing again in mid-January. But since it had been so long, I was having to reset a number of things in terms of my approach to guitar. I had a couple different picks lying around in various material, shape, and thickness. Picks I never got along with previously. But now, everything felt foreign anyway, so I decided to stick it out. I ended up ordering 11 different kinds of picks in different materials and thicknesses, with more on the way.
It has been a revelation.
I am now settling in to playing essentially the same shape, but in different materials than before, and in much thicker gauges. It's insane to me how many different sounds I'm getting. But it's even more insane to me that I didn't explore this path much, much, much sooner in life. I always knew pick choice made a difference, of course. I just always stuck with the same one because I liked it.
And it's been such a blast to experiment. I've been playing so much more guitar than in many years. It's really great.
Anyone ever experience something similar?
|
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Mar 5, 2020 12:25:58 GMT -6
I've been a pick geek for a long time. If I look to the right of my recording desk, there's probably 30 spread out...there's a whole organized storage as well as a grab bag of all the also rans.
Forever, I've been asked by people who I get such a lovely sound from my old Taylor...mcis have been expensive...cheap...in between...vintage preamp designs...modern fast preamps...I've just said I've never HAD a problem recording it. But, one of the things I've ALWAYS done...is turn the phones (mic feed) up loud and dump a bag of acoustic picks on the couch (or wherever I've set up to record acoustic) and find the right one for that song/part. It's not really that subtle on acoustic guitar. Electric is a little more subtle...but, on acoustic--you can completely change the attack, volume, sustain, and frequency balance with the pick. Realy thin Ultex being the brightest "scrape-iest"...to 3mm Tortex being the most full...
I think people get "weird" about my assertion of the importance of picks because they don't get that I don't mean there are "good ones" and "bad ones". I WISH there was a pick I would say "that's always the best"--holy hell, I'd love that...buy a bag of 1000 and probably use them until I die. Ultex is the best "metal" pick I've ever used, because it's HF chirpy thing drives the amp into "chuka chucka" overdrive with less GAIN, so less fizz while still beign able to palm mute. Same pick on a single coil 50s ash strat into a ClassA amp? Will take your head off how bright it is on the attack. so it's neither a "good" nor "bad" pick...it just has that excitery sound specific to the attack which is situationally good or bad.
You have material, size, thickness, and tip shape. They work as a kind of formula together to make the effective tone. So, like when a pick is thin (so sub .74mm) I don't mind it having a rounded tip...when it gets thicker, I want it sharpened in general.
|
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Mar 5, 2020 12:33:41 GMT -6
Count me among the Picks Matter squad. Particularly with acoustic guitar. I do the same thing Jamie just mentioned. Crank the phones and try different picks for the part. There are definitely a few that I usually end up using but it's always worth considering. I keep my most commonly used ones in a little thing on the desk but I've got 50 or so more in a drawer and sometimes one of the weirder ones is just the ticket. One of the off-the-beaten-path ones I really like is the this guy: www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/510P.73--dunlop-primetone-standard-pick-with-grip-73mm-3-pack |
|
|
|
Post by longscale on Mar 5, 2020 14:18:01 GMT -6
Whatever you do - do not look at this website: bluechippick.netI warned you. ;-) Expensive as all get out. I was skeptical. Then I tried a few. I love them. For Mandolin I'm sold. I've tried very very hard not to fall in love with them for guitar (based on price) and stick to my cheap Fender Heavy's. I like the bluechip picks quite a bit, and they seem to last forever. I don't have much of a problem keeping a few around (not having them get lost), but I'd not want to try to keep track of them on a live stage. Picks can make a giant difference in sound. Very much worth playing around with. Typically it is a very cheap (other than bluechip picks!) way to get fairly large differences in sound. imo |
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Mar 5, 2020 18:28:44 GMT -6
longscaleYeah, I’ve known about Blue Chip for years, and am actually considering getting one, but I’m also considering Charmed Life Picks. There are quite a few boutique pick makers these days. I’ve also been experimenting with hand-beveling some picks to get a custom attack/release. It’s a deep well.
|
|
|
|
Post by RealNoob on Mar 5, 2020 23:05:16 GMT -6
I was a dunlop guy forever and recently moved to the cool picks with the rough center circle. Seem to fit me well. Picks may be as subjective as Studio Monitors - lol.
|
|
|
|
Post by swafford on Mar 6, 2020 12:09:31 GMT -6
I don't obsess over it, but have settled on 3 basic flat picks I choose from for whatever I'm doing. Tortex Green 85mm (?), for most flat picking; Yellow (75mm) for most straight rhythm strumming and Red (60mm?) for a lighter, trebly sound that works great for strummed 12 string or I just want something to sit with the drum kit.
Fingerpicks I gravitate towards a Propick on my thumb and either National Nickels (25mm) or Acri on my fingers or just good ol' skin and nail, though my nails are in near constant breakage from humping and splitting firewood all the time or some other shitty outside work, but I do love the sound of just skin.
|
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Mar 6, 2020 12:50:23 GMT -6
Count me among the Picks Matter squad. Particularly with acoustic guitar. I do the same thing Jamie just mentioned. Crank the phones and try different picks for the part. There are definitely a few that I usually end up using but it's always worth considering. I keep my most commonly used ones in a little thing on the desk but I've got 50 or so more in a drawer and sometimes one of the weirder ones is just the ticket. One of the off-the-beaten-path ones I really like is the this guy: www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/510P.73--dunlop-primetone-standard-pick-with-grip-73mm-3-packRecently discovered myself that picks DO make a difference. I have those same Dunlops! They are pretty great. |
|
|
|
Post by geoff738 on Mar 6, 2020 15:12:07 GMT -6
I’ve gravitated to V picks, way thicker than I would have imagined I would have gotten on with previously.
But the last few months it’s just been fingers. Some stuff is easier, but some stuff is way slower, so I will probably go back to picks again at some point.
Cheers,
Geoff
|
|
|
|
Post by swafford on Mar 7, 2020 5:46:56 GMT -6
Along with not really thinking much about picks, I've never used a capo much over the years. The one I own I stole from a good friend who admitted to stealing picks from me over a 10 year period. Karmas a bitch. Anyway, I've started capping a lot as I'm doing a lot of open tunings and trying to get things to mesh well with a piano. The old red white and blue Kaiser I stole from Chuck many moons ago sounded like ass, so I went all in and picked up a G7 Heritage and holy shit on a shingle, was that a revelation. Never going back.
|
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Mar 7, 2020 13:53:54 GMT -6
Whatever you do - do not look at this website: bluechippick.netI warned you. ;-) Expensive as all get out. I was skeptical. Then I tried a few. I love them. For Mandolin I'm sold. I've tried very very hard not to fall in love with them for guitar (based on price) and stick to my cheap Fender Heavy's. I like the bluechip picks quite a bit, and they seem to last forever. I don't have much of a problem keeping a few around (not having them get lost), but I'd not want to try to keep track of them on a live stage. Picks can make a giant difference in sound. Very much worth playing around with. Typically it is a very cheap (other than bluechip picks!) way to get fairly large differences in sound. imo Are those prices per pick or per dozen? I would find it very hard to justify $35 or more for a single pick.
Also, I didn't notice any picks listed in my shape and thickness. I play a large triangle in .68mm, generally bog standard acetyl. They never break on me (well, almost - I think I've proken one in the last 4-5 years) and I play em till tyhe corners wear round. I also drill a hole just under 1/2" in diameter in the middle for a grip.
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Mar 7, 2020 14:09:43 GMT -6
I'm not a guitarist. I've tried to play for longer than I've played anything else but I just can't cut it.
However, my cousin, whom I've played with off and on for almost 25 years now, he's always used Dunlop tortex purple.
He used to leave them laying around the jam space, so I started using them.
I don't even know the thickness, but I've been playing them for 20 years now simply because he left them sitting around and I just got used to them.
|
|
|
|
Post by b1 on Mar 7, 2020 16:26:45 GMT -6
I started with the celluloid pics back in the day; somewhat thicker-ish - they didn't last long. After many trials with picks over the years, plus homemade, I've finally found what works comfortably for my style on electric guitar.. Dunlop Nylon in 38mm and 46mm. Nothing else feels right to me anymore.
|
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Mar 7, 2020 16:33:53 GMT -6
I used to buy Purple Tortex and sharpen them--I'm pretty sure they're either 1mm or 1.14mm. I bought a bag of maybe a 1000? Back when they were like .5c in bulk....set up a sanding attachment on a drill on I believe my parent's workhorse....spent the afternoon sharpening them all.
But, I'd point out that back then....how many pick choices WERE there?
-Celluloid (Fender)
-Nylon (crap)
-Tortex (then ONLY by Dunlop
-Stubbies polycarbonate (also Dunlop) jazz
....they all had little tiny jazz picks shape....."normal" and then they've all have SOME kind of large novel shape.I remember an instructor using those Dunlop Torex in the shape of a shark's tooth kind of....
Anyway--I used Celluloids to record....Tortex to play live--because Celluloid sounded better, but it literally melts away quickly....and Tortex was so cool "non stick"--though , as a geeky side note, the plastic "Derlin" can be made shiny/slick....Dunlo has 900 varieties of that, too. Oddly to me, it retains it's sound when slick. Still sounds like the powder coated--which seems like it would change....
Anyway--now, there's the opposite problem. I literally think Dunlop has some 900 SKUs. Which means out side of "normal shape--whatever material" every music store has different collections and offerings.
|
|
|
|
Post by b1 on Mar 7, 2020 16:41:21 GMT -6
To me, Tortex is like swimming with chest waders..
|
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Mar 7, 2020 19:15:34 GMT -6
Whatever you do - do not look at this website: bluechippick.netI warned you. ;-) Expensive as all get out. I was skeptical. Then I tried a few. I love them. For Mandolin I'm sold. I've tried very very hard not to fall in love with them for guitar (based on price) and stick to my cheap Fender Heavy's. I like the bluechip picks quite a bit, and they seem to last forever. I don't have much of a problem keeping a few around (not having them get lost), but I'd not want to try to keep track of them on a live stage. Picks can make a giant difference in sound. Very much worth playing around with. Typically it is a very cheap (other than bluechip picks!) way to get fairly large differences in sound. imo Are those prices per pick or per dozen? I would find it very hard to justify $35 or more for a single pick. That's for one pick. Depending on size/thickness, some of the Blue Chips go for as much as $75. (That's still for one pick, John.) Blue Chips are really big among serious Bluegrass players. The cost is mainly wrapped up in the material and the difficulty in shaping and finishing it. |
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Mar 7, 2020 19:36:58 GMT -6
Along with not really thinking much about picks, I've never used a capo much over the years. The one I own I stole from a good friend who admitted to stealing picks from me over a 10 year period. Karmas a bitch. Anyway, I've started capping a lot as I'm doing a lot of open tunings and trying to get things to mesh well with a piano. The old red white and blue Kaiser I stole from Chuck many moons ago sounded like ass, so I went all in and picked up a G7 Heritage and holy shit on a shingle, was that a revelation. Never going back. I've got a G7th, but I still prefer Kysers on acoustic guitar. On electric, I'm a Shubb man... |
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Mar 7, 2020 20:01:31 GMT -6
ragan : I've got a few of those Dunlop Primetones, but they don't really do it for me. Well, actually, I've got the other Primetone - the one that doesn't have the raised portion in the middle. Maybe I'd feel differently with the particular one you're talking about. The Primetones I have are brighter than I now prefer. The Primetones are made of Ultex, same material as the Dunlop Ultex model. They sound quite different to me, though. popmann : I'm opposite of you - I like a rounded "point" on the triangle. It really is fascinating how much the tone changes by beveling a pick. The Dunlop purple Tortex (yes, it's 1.14mm) sounds really different post-bevel. I've really been enjoying a few different casein picks (made of milk protein), and a couple of particular thermoplastic formulations. I really dig the D'Andrea Pro Plec. It's really dark sounding. Helps tame the top end of my Irish guitar very nicely. And it's a steal at $0.79. But I think my current favorite is the Golden Gate MP-10. Brighter than a Pro Plec, but darker than most others. It's very articulate, though. And quite inexpensive at $1.50 each. This is a deep hole, guys, but my goodness: It makes such a staggering difference to one's tone.
|
|
|
|
Post by jeremygillespie on Mar 7, 2020 20:36:37 GMT -6
I went to greyfox bluegrass festival about 10 years or so ago. I had seen the blue chip pick threads on the mando and guitar forums for a few years and allways thought....bullshit.
The guy that makes them was there as a vendor and had a bunch of his picks, a few guitars and mandos, and picks from every major manufacturer there for comparison. I was sold after playing about 4 bars of a tune.
I own one for mando, 3 for guitar, and a few of the thumb picks for pedal steel / dobro, and their nice little wooden carrying case. I should make a commission on the damn things cause every single person that use mine at the studio has purchased at least 2.
Just buy one. Hell, buy two. If you don’t like them you can sell them for just about your purchase price.
I don’t use any other picks and I’ve had these
For 10 years. I cherish them and wouldn’t ever possibly lose one.
|
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Mar 7, 2020 21:11:00 GMT -6
Are those prices per pick or per dozen? I would find it very hard to justify $35 or more for a single pick. That's for one pick. Depending on size/thickness, some of the Blue Chips go for as much as $75. (That's still for one pick, John.) Blue Chips are really big among serious Bluegrass players. The cost is mainly wrapped up in the material and the difficulty in shaping and finishing it. $35 for ONE PICK?  They can shove it where the sun don't shine.
At $35 for a dozen I'd risk it to see it their products are that much better, but $35 for ONE GODDAM PICK, made of AT BEST, of 35 cents worth of plastic, they're ripping you off.
The only picks I can think of that might be REMOTELY worth than would be genuine tortoise shell, and only because they're illegal.
$35, the price of their cheapest advertised product, could buy me enough of the typical, bog standard, picks that do PERFECTLY WELL for me to last AT LEAST five years, if not 10 or more.
What, i should spend $35 to $75 EVERY TIME I LOSE A PICK? Are the OUT OF THEIR MINDS?
Are people REALLY that gullible?
I'd lose (a lot of) money doing that.
Maybe if you're the sort who thinks nothing of snorting a $100 line of coke up their nose - but didn't that idiocy go out with the last century?
|
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Mar 7, 2020 21:39:33 GMT -6
That's for one pick. Depending on size/thickness, some of the Blue Chips go for as much as $75. (That's still for one pick, John.) Blue Chips are really big among serious Bluegrass players. The cost is mainly wrapped up in the material and the difficulty in shaping and finishing it. $35 for ONE PICK? They can shove it where the sun don't shine.
At $35 for a dozen I'd risk it to see it their products are that much better, but $35 for ONE GODDAM PICK, made of AT BEST, of 35 cents worth of plastic, they're ripping you off.
The only picks I can think of that might be REMOTELY worth than would be genuine tortoise shell, and only because they're illegal.
$35, the price of their cheapest advertised product, could buy me enough of the typical, bog standard, picks that do PERFECTLY WELL for me to last AT LEAST five years, if not 10 or more.
What, i should spend $35 to $75 EVERY TIME I LOSE A PICK? Are the OUT OF THEIR MINDS?
Are people REALLY that gullible?
I'd lose (a lot of) money doing that.
Maybe if you're the sort who thinks nothing of snorting a $100 line of coke up their nose - but didn't that idiocy go out with the last century?
Hey brother, if it ain't worth it to you, it ain't worth it. Nothing wrong with that. But it ain't 35 cents worth of plastic, either. |
|
|
|
Post by geoff738 on Mar 7, 2020 21:45:47 GMT -6
Yeah, a $35 pick is $50 Canuck. Before shipping. Which was kinda nuts given the size and weight of a pick. And customs. And taxes.
I’d like to try one. Maybe it would convince me that a $70 or so for a pick in Canuck bucks is reasonable. But V picks work ok for me and I could probably get 15 of them for the price of a blue chip.
Then again moving towards just my fingers means not having to worry about where I left whatever one is my favourite that moment.
Cheers,
Geoff
|
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Mar 7, 2020 21:51:07 GMT -6
ragan : I've got a few of those Dunlop Primetones, but they don't really do it for me. Well, actually, I've got the other Primetone - the one that doesn't have the raised portion in the middle. Maybe I'd feel differently with the particular one you're talking about. The Primetones I have are brighter than I now prefer. The Primetones are made of Ultex, same material as the Dunlop Ultex model. They sound quite different to me, though. Yeah it's often brighter than I want too, I just love the feel of it with the raised bumps. |
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Mar 7, 2020 22:21:34 GMT -6
$35 for ONE PICK? They can shove it where the sun don't shine.
At $35 for a dozen I'd risk it to see it their products are that much better, but $35 for ONE GODDAM PICK, made of AT BEST, of 35 cents worth of plastic, they're ripping you off.
The only picks I can think of that might be REMOTELY worth than would be genuine tortoise shell, and only because they're illegal.
$35, the price of their cheapest advertised product, could buy me enough of the typical, bog standard, picks that do PERFECTLY WELL for me to last AT LEAST five years, if not 10 or more.
What, i should spend $35 to $75 EVERY TIME I LOSE A PICK? Are they OUT OF THEIR MINDS?
Are people REALLY that gullible?
I'd lose (a lot of) money doing that.
Maybe if you're the sort who thinks nothing of snorting a $100 line of coke up their nose - but didn't that idiocy go out with the last century?
Hey brother, if it ain't worth it to you, it ain't worth it. Nothing wrong with that. But it ain't 35 cents worth of plastic, either. You're probably right, it's less than that.
Picks are, at best, perishable items. We lose them all the time, drop them onstage, never to be seen again, etc.
$35 is an utterly absurd price.
My Clayton Acetyl picks, modded with the center hole, do a GREAT job for me, and if one goes spiralling off into the audience it doesn't matter - it's not a significant percentage of my pay for the gig. $3.50 for a bag of 12.
Maybe if you only play at home or in the studio it might not be so bad, but to use a pick costing $35 to $75 live onstage is utterly preposterous.
And yeah, it's pretty certainly 35 cents worth of plastic. What plastic would cost more than 35 cents for 1/4 gram?
I used to work for a band that opened a lot for Cheap Trick. If Rick Neilsen had used those picks they would have gone broke the first week of the tour. And $5 per pick for personalization? Those people are delusional.
|
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Mar 7, 2020 22:50:55 GMT -6
OK, after this post, I'm not going to go into this anymore about Blue Chip picks, but just to quickly explain:
Blue Chips are made out of Vespel Polyimide, which is very expensive. A 10" x 10" sheet of it @ 1.57mm thick will run you about $1,250, so considerably more than 35 cents. It is also fairly time consuming to shape.
Again, some folks may not think a BC pick is worth it. If that is the case for an individual, then it is certainly not worth it to them. I do not own a BC. I have thought about buying one to give it a whirl. There is a return window for a full refund if you don't like it.
|
|
They can shove it where the sun don't shine.