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Post by johneppstein on Apr 23, 2020 13:21:34 GMT -6
I got no science. Sorry. But I do have the "official" stats for my county and I'm sure this will piss people off too. Almost a month after the prediction of "hell on earth" in all hospitals on the planet in 2 weeks, our two hospitals have a grand total of 3 people with Covid in the two hospitals combined - with another 300 staffed beds waiting for the apocalypse. We have a county total of 72 confirmed cases (up 20 in the last 2 weeks), 1 death (been that way for 4 weeks now and has not risen), and 5 total recoveries. Aside from the media and governmental actions and everyone freaking, I don't think it would even have been a blip on the radar or normalcy here without the governmental actions and media. I mean, I honestly think the local doctors would have just chocked it up to a bad flu strain or pneumonia. There's just not enough going on here. Of course, this may be because of social distancing or because we are not packed like sardines here, but honestly, there's a LOT of people here who are not really doing the social distancing thing. Which leads to the next interesting thing.... Folks under 65 make up 2/3 of the cases, and over 65 1/3 of the cases. Quite a few infected that are in the 1-17 age group. My guess is that this demographic is not as fearful as the older folks who were told this could def. be fatal - so they are out and around more. And just to make life interesting and more controversial, there are personal reports (definitely not science) coming from doctors and medical staff in NYC that the whole thing in NYC is being inextricably overblown for political and financial reasons. Doctors being told to count EVERY death as a Covid death no matter the cause so the hospital gets more $$$. Certain hospitals overflowing, while others are almost empty. Morgue trucks sitting "full" because the coroner just doesn't want to be contaminated. Temporary hospitals not being needed. But media reporting much the opposite. Who to believe? You'll have to decide for yourself. Again, not science, but enough of a coincidence to make one wonder. I've never seen things do diametrically opposed on such an important issue in all my life. I long for the good ol days when the news was just the news and not a billion dollar money making industry. Maybe I was just naive..... Many places in the country are reporting around 70% of all confirmed Covid cases are in old folk's homes and the numbers there are really frightening. |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 23, 2020 13:40:40 GMT -6
My conspiracy theory is that the conspiracy theorists against the shutdown are working for the CIA. The movie Contagion has those same characters and same backlash. It’s like some kind of plan man... It's no conspiracy that once the government puts laws and rules into play, they rarely remove them once the impetus for them has gone. Let this go on too long and the masks will become muzzles. You actually BELIEVE that?
And I thought I was paranoid......
There's a big difference between, for example, the restrictions on air travel - terrorism is unfortunately still a great threat in this world and the ONLY reason that the attacks against passenger planes have mostly stopped (they still happen occasionally in parts of the world that don't have our restrictions) is that we have these pesky rules in place that prevent it from happening. So there is, in fact, a legitimate reason to maintain those rules.
The Covid restrictions aren't like that and present as great an inconvenience to those in power as they do to regular citizens - think about it - what POSSIBLE reason would the shadowy "powers that be" have for maintaing face masks and restrictions on gatherings? The face mask thing "lasting forever" thing is TOTALLY wacko and restrictions on gatherings areas inconvenients for the political people of ALL stripes as they are for, for example, musicians.
What you are saying makes no sense.
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Post by svart on Apr 23, 2020 13:50:47 GMT -6
It's no conspiracy that once the government puts laws and rules into play, they rarely remove them once the impetus for them has gone. Let this go on too long and the masks will become muzzles. You actually BELIEVE that?
And I thought I was paranoid......
There's a big differencer between, for exampl;e, the restricyions on air travel - terrorism is unfortunately still a great threat in this world and the ONLY reason that the attacks against passenger planes have mostly stopped (they still happen occasionally in parts of the world that don't have our restrictions) is that we have these pesky rules in place that prevent it from happening. So there is, in fact, a lefetimate reason to mai9ntain those rules.
The Covid restrictions aren't like that an present an inconvenience to those in power as they do to regular citizens - think about it - what POSSIBLE reason would the shadowy "powers that be" have for maintaing face masks and restrictions on gatherings? The face mask thing "lasting forever" thing is TOTALLY wacko and restrictions on gatherings areas inconvenients for the political people of ALL stripes as they are for, for example, musicians.
What you are saying makes no sense.
TSA has not once caught an attempt at an attack. Most security experts agree that it was the worst possible way to combat potential terrorism, but our government needed to * show* the people that they were doing something to make them feel safe. Doing something by making them stand in lines that are routinely longer and more compact an area than inside a plane, right next to the receptacles that you're supposed to drop your *possibly* explosive shampoo and stuff in.. You know, for your safety, because if the idea was to kill as many people as possible, the easiest way to do so would be go after the security lines at a major airport. And, Patriot act was supposed to expire, and instead they renewed it because they enjoy the avoidance of law that it gives them. You think certain lawmakers are going to give up some of the powers they've given themselves? You're the one who doesn't have any sense if you think that they'll let those powers go after this.. |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 23, 2020 14:03:03 GMT -6
Unfortunately his "statistics" don't agree with the actual facts.
To begin with, it's not "the same everywhere". Perhaps in a country like Israel in might seem that way, but Israel is a very small country that has many factors that set it apart from most other countries.
In the USA the latest infectious trend appears to be that more sparsely populated areas are experiencing a definite upsurge that has been less obvious to casual observers because of the way such illnesses spread in areas of lower population density. However when those areas finally DO get hit they get hit much harder than more developed areas because they just don't have the hospital capacity to deal with it - most of the medical facilities are "community hospitals" with little staff and less equipment - a majority don't have proper intensive care wards or isolation facilities because it has always been assumed that patients needing such things would get medevaced to larger, better equipped facilities in urban areas. And community hospitals generally don't have the required specialists on staff - in normal times they might get a visiting specialist in once every week or two on a rotating basis. So, watching the numbers and looking at the maps indicates that the more rural areas are about to get a peak - they just didn't get it yet because it takes longer to get there.
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Post by drbill on Apr 23, 2020 14:15:02 GMT -6
Many places in the country are reporting around 70% of all confirmed Covid cases are in old folk's homes and the numbers there are really frightening. Here, the 70% is in folks under age 65. Not the other way around. Go figure. I guess stats aren't accurate if applied in a one size fits all methodology. |
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Post by drbill on Apr 23, 2020 14:20:21 GMT -6
In the USA the latest infectious trend appears to be that more sparsely populated areas are experiencing a definite upsurge that has been less obvious to casual observers because of the way such illnesses spread in areas of lower population density.
I would consider the county where I live fairly rural. At this point in time, we're getting one confirmed positive added to the stack about every two days. Not exactly an "upsurge". As a matter of fact, if judged by our county alone (dumb I know, but you get my point) - pretty much any kind of intervention would be deemed unnecessary. Why? I have no idea, but I'm grateful. It took the better part of a month to double from 35 to 70 cases, and seems to have been leveling off as of late - taking longer and longer to add cases, even though testing is getting more widespread and faster. |
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Post by svart on Apr 23, 2020 14:23:29 GMT -6
Unfortunately his "statistics" don't agree with the actual facts.
To begin with, it's not "the same everywhere". Perhaps in a country like Israel in might seem that way, but Israel is a very small country that has many factors that set it apart from most other countries.
In the USA the latest infectious trend appears to be that more sparsely populated areas are experiencing a definite upsurge that has been less obvious to casual observers because of the way such illnesses spread in areas of lower population density. However when those areas finally DO get hit they get hit much harder than more developed areas because they just don't have the hospital capacity to deal with it - most of the medical facilities are "community hospitals" with little staff and less equipment - a majority don't have proper intensive care wards or isolation facilities because it has always been assumed that patients needing such things would get medevaced to larger, better equipped facilities in urban areas. And community hospitals generally don't have the required specialists on staff - in normal times they might get a visiting specialist in once every week or two on a rotating basis. So, watching the numbers and looking at the maps indicates that the more rural areas are about to get a peak - they just didn't get it yet because it takes longer to get there.
You could have said you didn't read the paper. It would have saved you some time rather than typing a bunch of nonsense. |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 23, 2020 14:25:49 GMT -6
You actually BELIEVE that?
And I thought I was paranoid......
There's a big differencer between, for exampl;e, the restricyions on air travel - terrorism is unfortunately still a great threat in this world and the ONLY reason that the attacks against passenger planes have mostly stopped (they still happen occasionally in parts of the world that don't have our restrictions) is that we have these pesky rules in place that prevent it from happening. So there is, in fact, a lefetimate reason to mai9ntain those rules.
The Covid restrictions aren't like that an present an inconvenience to those in power as they do to regular citizens - think about it - what POSSIBLE reason would the shadowy "powers that be" have for maintaing face masks and restrictions on gatherings? The face mask thing "lasting forever" thing is TOTALLY wacko and restrictions on gatherings areas inconvenients for the political people of ALL stripes as they are for, for example, musicians.
What you are saying makes no sense.
TSA has not once caught an attempt at an attack. Most security experts agree that it was the worst possible way to combat potential terrorism, but our government needed to * show* the people that they were doing something to make them feel safe. Doing something by making them stand in lines that are routinely longer and more compact an area than inside a plane, right next to the receptacles that you're supposed to drop your *possibly* explosive shampoo and stuff in.. You know, for your safety, because if the idea was to kill as many people as possible, the easiest way to do so would be go after the security lines at a major airport. And, Patriot act was supposed to expire, and instead they renewed it because they enjoy the avoidance of law that it gives them. You think certain lawmakers are going to give up some of the powers they've given themselves? You're the one who doesn't have any sense if you think that they'll let those powers go after this.. Gee, you're fast! you got to that before I even had a chance to edit typos! Way to go!
You claim that TSA has never caught an attempt at an attack. You have NO WAY of knowing that (unless you work in the upper levels at TSA, which I doubt.) Do you actually believe that they publicize every time they snag someone? Do your local cops make headlines every time they bust a burglar or a dope dealer? In big cities most MURDERS don't even make the paper (unless the deceased is somebody famous, of course.) Why would you think that TSA behaves any differently in this respect than any other cops?
It's also clear that you know even less about liquid explosives than I do. I suggest that you Google the subject - you'll learn quite a bit in a fairly short time. Onew of the things I learned in my short research into the subject the other night is that many of the potential explosives would not be smuggled onto the plane in the final explosive form, they would be smuggled on by more than one person with separate components which would then be mixed on the plane.
But don't take my word for it, Google is your friend. Just enter the words "liquid explosive" in the search bar. You'll get an eyefull.
As far as The Patriot Act goes, you and I are more ot less in agreement. But if you think that there's ANY resemblance between the Patriot act and the Covid quarantine measures,. well, lets just say that you have a comprehension problem and leave it at that. There is NO MOTIVATION for any government to retain provisions that don't have a useful (to the government) result and actually INTERFERE with many of its goals.
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 23, 2020 14:45:41 GMT -6
Many places in the country are reporting around 70% of all confirmed Covid cases are in old folk's homes and the numbers there are really frightening. Here, the 70% is in folks under age 65. Not the other way around. Go figure. I guess stats aren't accurate if applied in a one size fits all methodology. Well, that indicates one of two things - either your area has a demographic that differs from most of the country (which is quite possible) OR the incidence in nursing homes in your area is being grossly underreported. We know that the latter is true (for various reasons) in certain many areas. Some facilities have been interntionally underreporting for business and/or PR related reasons. Some states and researchers have not been canvassing nursing homes and assisted care facilities effectively. In fact, many areas have not been reporting figures accurately AT ALL - that's one of the criticisms of the famous Santa Clara survey - the selection process was flawed in that senior citizens and minorities were GROSSLY underrepresented. (Most people in nursing homes don't do Facebook, d'oh!)
I'm inclined to suspect that your area has a reporting problem. It seems the most likely explanation.
Of course then there's the problem of asymptomatic carriers.
We need test kits. We need test kits out in the field, accessible to everyone, not locked up in some government warehouse. And we need both kinds - the ones that detect viral infection and the ones that detect antibodies.
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Post by svart on Apr 23, 2020 14:50:37 GMT -6
TSA has not once caught an attempt at an attack. Most security experts agree that it was the worst possible way to combat potential terrorism, but our government needed to * show* the people that they were doing something to make them feel safe. Doing something by making them stand in lines that are routinely longer and more compact an area than inside a plane, right next to the receptacles that you're supposed to drop your *possibly* explosive shampoo and stuff in.. You know, for your safety, because if the idea was to kill as many people as possible, the easiest way to do so would be go after the security lines at a major airport. And, Patriot act was supposed to expire, and instead they renewed it because they enjoy the avoidance of law that it gives them. You think certain lawmakers are going to give up some of the powers they've given themselves? You're the one who doesn't have any sense if you think that they'll let those powers go after this.. Gee, you're fast! you got to that before I even had a chance to edit typos! Way to go!
You claim that TSA has never caught an attempt at an attack. You have NO WAY of knowing that (unless you work in the upper levels at TSA, which I doubt.) Do you actually believe that they publicize every time they snag someone? Do your local cops make headlines every time they bust a burglar or a dope dealer? In big cities most MURDERS don't even make the paper (unless the deceased is somebody famous, of course.) Why would you think that TSA behaves any differently in this respect than any other cops?
It's also clear that you know even less about liquid explosives than I do. I suggest that you Google the subject - you'll learn quite a bit in a fairly short time. Onew of the things I learned in my short research into the subject the other night is that many of the potential explosives would not be smuggled onto the plane in the final explosive form, they would be smuggled on by more than one person with separate components which would then be mixed on the plane.
But don't take my word for it, Google is your friend. Just enter the words "liquid explosive" in the search bar. You'll get an eyefull.
As far as The Patriot Act goes, you and I are more ot less in agreement. But if you think that there's ANY resemblance between the Patriot act and the Covid quarantine measures,. well, lets just say that you have a comprehension problem and leave it at that. There is NO MOTIVATION for any government to retain provisions that don't have a useful (to the government) result and actually INTERFERE with many of its goals.
Meh. For the sake of discussion, my father worked as police chief for a municipality near the Atlanta airport, and worked with TSA, GBI, FBI, etc regularly. Some of the stories about TSA would make your hair stand up. 100% failure rates to catch fake bombs in security lines, plain clothes police/feds actively able to get past security doors and plant fake devices at key areas in the airport, non-working scanners that are there to make it look like there's more stringent testing going on, etc. TSA agents stealing millions of dollars worth of stuff, trafficking humans, animals, drugs, you name it, TSA facilitates the worst of it. It's 100% theater and a farce of a "safety" administration. Police secretly laugh at it, the feds think it's a joke, politicians love it because it makes people feel safe. Ever wonder why the travel color condition never drops? It was never designed to. It was designed to keep people feeling like they need someone to protect them, and government happily gives it to them in return for less pushback against tracking and surveillance. But hey, it's convinced you that there's some shadowy operation catching badguys behind the scenes and not telling us. There ain't. And yeah I made some explosives in my basement as a teenager. It worked. I wouldn't dare look that stuff up now unless you wanted to be on a watchlist. |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 23, 2020 15:07:25 GMT -6
Unfortunately his "statistics" don't agree with the actual facts.
To begin with, it's not "the same everywhere". Perhaps in a country like Israel in might seem that way, but Israel is a very small country that has many factors that set it apart from most other countries.
In the USA the latest infectious trend appears to be that more sparsely populated areas are experiencing a definite upsurge that has been less obvious to casual observers because of the way such illnesses spread in areas of lower population density. However when those areas finally DO get hit they get hit much harder than more developed areas because they just don't have the hospital capacity to deal with it - most of the medical facilities are "community hospitals" with little staff and less equipment - a majority don't have proper intensive care wards or isolation facilities because it has always been assumed that patients needing such things would get medevaced to larger, better equipped facilities in urban areas. And community hospitals generally don't have the required specialists on staff - in normal times they might get a visiting specialist in once every week or two on a rotating basis. So, watching the numbers and looking at the maps indicates that the more rural areas are about to get a peak - they just didn't get it yet because it takes longer to get there.
You could have said you didn't read the paper. It would have saved you some time rather than typing a bunch of nonsense. Actually, I did read the paper - it's not very long and it isn't at all scientifically involved*. It just based on a lot of assumption sare unproven and/or flawed.
I COULD do to the trouble of dissecting it paragraph by paragraph but I really don't want to waste the time and I'd need to copy and paste the article over to do it.
His core erroneous assumption, though, is shown in his graph that shows increase in infections "levelling off" andf his assumption that this shows a decrease in spread. What it actually shows is that after a certain time the infection rate reaches saturation for the given population and after that point the growth rate slows. This is something that should be obvious in any infectious disease in a population of limited size. If you were able to add an infinite stream of uninfected people to the pool the infection rate would continue to show an exponential curve. But populations aren't infinite and eventually you start running out of "new meat".
Once many people have had it and either died or developed immunity OF COURSE the rate of infection is going to slow. IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE DISEASE IS ANY LESS DANGEROUS.
*- over the last couple or so weeks I've read a lot of papers that were both much longer and far more scientifically involved. And were written by people who actually knew what they were talking about.
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 23, 2020 15:21:38 GMT -6
Gee, you're fast! you got to that before I even had a chance to edit typos! Way to go!
You claim that TSA has never caught an attempt at an attack. You have NO WAY of knowing that (unless you work in the upper levels at TSA, which I doubt.) Do you actually believe that they publicize every time they snag someone? Do your local cops make headlines every time they bust a burglar or a dope dealer? In big cities most MURDERS don't even make the paper (unless the deceased is somebody famous, of course.) Why would you think that TSA behaves any differently in this respect than any other cops?
It's also clear that you know even less about liquid explosives than I do. I suggest that you Google the subject - you'll learn quite a bit in a fairly short time. Onew of the things I learned in my short research into the subject the other night is that many of the potential explosives would not be smuggled onto the plane in the final explosive form, they would be smuggled on by more than one person with separate components which would then be mixed on the plane.
But don't take my word for it, Google is your friend. Just enter the words "liquid explosive" in the search bar. You'll get an eyefull.
As far as The Patriot Act goes, you and I are more ot less in agreement. But if you think that there's ANY resemblance between the Patriot act and the Covid quarantine measures,. well, lets just say that you have a comprehension problem and leave it at that. There is NO MOTIVATION for any government to retain provisions that don't have a useful (to the government) result and actually INTERFERE with many of its goals.
Meh. For the sake of discussion, my father worked as police chief for a municipality near the Atlanta airport, and worked with TSA, GBI, FBI, etc regularly. Some of the stories about TSA would make your hair stand up. 100% failure rates to catch fake bombs in security lines, plain clothes police/feds actively able to get past security doors and plant fake devices at key areas in the airport, non-working scanners that are there to make it look like there's more stringent testing going on, etc. TSA agents stealing millions of dollars worth of stuff, trafficking humans, animals, drugs, you name it, TSA facilitates the worst of it. It's 100% theater and a farce of a "safety" administration. Police secretly laugh at it, the feds think it's a joke, politicians love it because it makes people feel safe. Ever wonder why the travel color condition never drops? It was never designed to. It was designed to keep people feeling like they need someone to protect them, and government happily gives it to them in return for less pushback against tracking and surveillance. But hey, it's convinced you that there's some shadowy operation catching badguys behind the scenes and not telling us. There ain't. And yeah I made some explosives in my basement as a teenager. It worked. I wouldn't dare look that stuff up now unless you wanted to be on a watchlist. I'm actually inclined to agree with a lot of that. The implementation is seriously flawed. It doesn't mean that the concept is wrong or that it's not effective in discouraging terrorist activity. It still happens from time to time in parts of the world that DON'T have such obvious airport security. Malaysia Air 370 would be a good example. The thing is, "disappeared" flights often don't go down as hijackings in the statistics. |
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Post by svart on Apr 23, 2020 15:23:27 GMT -6
You could have said you didn't read the paper. It would have saved you some time rather than typing a bunch of nonsense. Actually, I did read the paper - it's not very long and it isn't at all scientifically involved*. It just based on a lot of assumption sare unproven and/or flawed.
I COULD do to the trouble of dissecting it paragraph by paragraph but I really don't want to waste the time and I'd need to copy and paste the article over to do it.
His core erroneous assumption, though, is shown in his graph that shows increase in infections "levelling off" andf his assumption that this shows a decrease in spread. What it actually shows is that after a certain time the infection rate reaches saturation for the given population and after that point the growth rate slows. This is something that should be obvious in any infectious disease in a population of limited size. If you were able to add an infinite stream of uninfected people to the pool the infection rate would continue to show an exponential curve. But populations aren't infinite and eventually you start running out of "new meat".
Once many people have had it and either died or developed immunity OF COURSE the rate of infection is going to slow. IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE DISEASE IS ANY LESS DANGEROUS.
*- over the last couple or so weeks I've read a lot of papers that were both much longer and far more scientifically involved. And were written by people who actually knew what they were talking about.
Oh Johnnycakes, what are we going to do with you. Smarter than authors of a scientific paper because you read a few other papers that you like the outcome of more? LOL. Fantasy. |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 23, 2020 15:49:48 GMT -6
Actually, I did read the paper - it's not very long and it isn't at all scientifically involved*. It just based on a lot of assumption sare unproven and/or flawed.
I COULD do to the trouble of dissecting it paragraph by paragraph but I really don't want to waste the time and I'd need to copy and paste the article over to do it.
His core erroneous assumption, though, is shown in his graph that shows increase in infections "levelling off" andf his assumption that this shows a decrease in spread. What it actually shows is that after a certain time the infection rate reaches saturation for the given population and after that point the growth rate slows. This is something that should be obvious in any infectious disease in a population of limited size. If you were able to add an infinite stream of uninfected people to the pool the infection rate would continue to show an exponential curve. But populations aren't infinite and eventually you start running out of "new meat".
Once many people have had it and either died or developed immunity OF COURSE the rate of infection is going to slow. IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE DISEASE IS ANY LESS DANGEROUS.
*- over the last couple or so weeks I've read a lot of papers that were both much longer and far more scientifically involved. And were written by people who actually knew what they were talking about.
Oh Johnnycakes, what are we going to do with you. Smarter than authors of a scientific paper because you read a few other papers that you like the outcome of more? LOL. Fantasy. "Liked the outcome of more"? Oh, Svarty baby, you couldn't be more wrong. I liked those other papers because THEY WERE IN ACTUAL SCIENTIFIC PUBLICATIONS, not the popular press or propaganda outlets. Publications like "SCIENCE" and the smaller, highly specialized publicastions they reference. THE NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE, which is one of the most respected publications in the world for medical/biological research. And, of course SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, which I have read since my Uncle Sam, the Upjohn biochemist, got me my first subscription at the age of 12. I recently renewed my subscription, since Sci-Am is a pay publication.
I trust those types of publication because what they publish is generally peer-reviewed (and in the rare occasions it isn't they warn you up front) and vetted by top specialists in the specific fields.
They're not chosen because they fit "conservative' or "liberal" criteria.
I notice that you never seem to quote from or even reference those publications. Nor do the authors of the stuff you do reference. (Which, incidentally is generally a sure fire indication that they couldn't pass peer review.)
I do also read the kind of crap you quote - from both sides - and give both of those sides equal credence, which is to say NONE. Sometimes it makes OK light reading, in a very dark kind of way. Sometimes it's just fun to count the procedural flaws and tear them apart.
I like SCIENCE. I don't like bullshit - I'm not a plant.
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Post by drbill on Apr 23, 2020 16:52:42 GMT -6
Here, the 70% is in folks under age 65. Not the other way around. Go figure. I guess stats aren't accurate if applied in a one size fits all methodology. Well, that indicates one of two things - either your area has a demographic that differs from most of the country (which is quite possible) OR the incidence in nursing homes in your area is being grossly underreported. We know that the latter is true (for various reasons) in certain many areas. Some facilities have been interntionally underreporting for business and/or PR related reasons. Some states and researchers have not been canvassing nursing homes and assisted care facilities effectively. In fact, many areas have not been reporting figures accurately AT ALL - that's one of the criticisms of the famous Santa Clara survey - the selection process was flawed in that senior citizens and minorities were GROSSLY underrepresented. (Most people in nursing homes don't do Facebook, d'oh!)
I'm inclined to suspect that your area has a reporting problem. It seems the most likely explanation.
Of course then there's the problem of asymptomatic carriers.
We need test kits. We need test kits out in the field, accessible to everyone, not locked up in some government warehouse. And we need both kinds - the ones that detect viral infection and the ones that detect antibodies.
Don't think so John. My wife's parents are in a assisted living facility, and we know other people who have parents in same. They went into a big lockdown here, and they are just not getting sick - they are successfully limiting both access and the sickness. Sorry that our demographic does not match the public view. But it doesn't. |
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Post by Ward on Apr 24, 2020 6:58:24 GMT -6
My conspiracy theory is that the conspiracy theorists against the shutdown are working for the CIA. The movie Contagion has those same characters and same backlash. It’s like some kind of plan man... It's no conspiracy that once the government puts laws and rules into play, they rarely remove them once the impetus for them has gone. Let this go on too long and the masks will become muzzles. You mean like temporary wartime measures like income tax? Yeah, that worked out well. I can't help but find myself in agreement with you, yet again. |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Apr 24, 2020 7:51:54 GMT -6
It's no conspiracy that once the government puts laws and rules into play, they rarely remove them once the impetus for them has gone. Let this go on too long and the masks will become muzzles. You mean like temporary wartime measures like income tax? Yeah, that worked out well. I can't help but find myself in agreement with you, yet again. Yup! Like that BS little beauty called the Patriot Act! |
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Post by Ward on Apr 24, 2020 9:12:40 GMT -6
You mean like temporary wartime measures like income tax? Yeah, that worked out well. I can't help but find myself in agreement with you, yet again. Yup! Like that BS little beauty called the Patriot Act! And income tax pays for it all!! More money going into the gov and we willingly pay for these 'necessary' things, departments and programs meanwhile more and more gets syphoned off and goes to special interests. And I don't mean the arts. |
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Post by swurveman on Apr 25, 2020 10:38:08 GMT -6
Yup! Like that BS little beauty called the Patriot Act! And income tax pays for it all!! More money going into the gov and we willingly pay for these 'necessary' things, departments and programs meanwhile more and more gets syphoned off and goes to special interests. And I don't mean the arts. I had our Shareholder Meeting yesterday. As part of the building and glass industries, we are deemed an essential business. We had our best month ever in January, but are now struggling with the shutdown The government gave us a $2.5 million dollar loan, which our CFO is confident we will not have to repay, for payroll payments to our 200 employees , some of who are still working, but more importantly none of whom we had to furlough. Our company would say that our employees well being is necessary. So, they will be able to meet their bills through June at which time we hope to be up and running at full capacity doing our part for what we believe will be a U shaped recovery. This imo is a perfect example of the importance of our federal government working with the private sector in a productive way. I wish this extended to even smaller business and the gig economy. |
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Post by christopher on Apr 26, 2020 12:55:38 GMT -6
I think they really screwed up with the flu-like symptoms thing.. everyone gets the flu, it’s a part of life... only the weakest are ever at any risk. This is not a flu, it’s something else. After reading some first hand accounts finally, I feel pretty sure I had it. Here’s what I can tell you first hand, from my experience. For the unfortunate ones, the chills aren’t “chills”, it’s rigor, which are extreme tremors and involuntary muscle contractions. The body aches aren’t flu type aches.. it’s a massive buildup of lactic acid in the muscles from flexing due to rigor. Basically take yourself to the gym and have The Rock force you to do a 4 hour routine with him, next day every damn muscle fiber is in total pain down to the bone marrow. Then there’s a screaming headache like you been out drinking cheap tequila till 4am and still went to work next day anyway. This might have been because your jaw bone was slamming your skull like a jackhammer for hours? Or it could be lack of oxygen? Doesn’t matter.. it sucks. But all these miserable and horrible symptoms are absolutely nothing compared to the worst one... You wake up with a tickle in the back of your throat.. obviously something that needs to be coughed up, like some food went down the wrong pipe. So you hack for a bit and nothing comes out. No phlem, no nothing.. and now the tickle is worse. So you try again, same result. Again..nothing. After 3 minutes you are starting to get really upset, so you start taking much stronger and deeper breathes, to really force the damn thing out.. hack hack hack.. bottom of your lungs can feel something is there and it needs to get out. But nothing comes out, just air. Feels like there’s a damn piece of food or something stuck in your windpipe and it’s driving you insane! And now you can’t stop coughing. Your body is trying to hack it out for you now, you aren’t even trying. Ok.. where is this going? And after about 20 involuntary hacks in a row you realize you are totally out of breath and not getting enough oxygen, you just need to take in a few breathes and forget that thing in your throat before trying again. But your body won’t let you stop coughing. Finally.. a break in the hacking, you are so ready to inhale that deep wonderful breath like coming up out of the water... and you start to pull air into your lungs, as soon as you get just 1/2 cup of air your body starts hacking again. Damnit! Another 20-30 second fit without breathing. Now you are seriously going insane.. you need air, but you can’t get any. Again, the hacking finally stops for a second, you try to breath again and same thing.. a tiny gulp of air and back to 30 seconds no breathing, just hacking. so far you’ve been awake for about 15-20 minutes and it’s been pure hell, body is in pain, head is pounding, but all you want is a little oxygen. Each cough is causing your diaphragm to contract, which is causing your heart rate to jump in an attempt to feed much needed oxygen to your muscles, which is causing your body to want to gulp in air, which is causing you to cough. It’s a feedback loop, and it’s killing you! It’s been a couple minutes and just a cup full of air! So you realize, you’ll need to stop the coughing.. that will stop the muscles from needing oxygen, which will stop the heart from jumping, which will stop this cycle! So you tell yourself to not cough, even though that thing in your windpipe is driving you insane. And don’t take deep breaths, even though it’s what you want so very bad and most of all. Only take shallow breathes, .. tiniest breathes you can do, and whatever you do...don’t cough!!! You start taking tiny breaths of air, and fighting the urge to cough.. you get about 10 seconds worth of breathing, you can feel your heart start to slow, when your body starts coughing again. F***! Another 20 seconds go by and you are fighting to keep yourself from coughing.. again.. tiny breaths, fight the urge to cough. This time you make it about 30 seconds without coughing, but this tiny breathing crap is driving you mad! You need a real breathe of air! So you decide, maybe I can take in a deep breathe now? Maybe if I try a slow deep breathe? So you give it shot.. and immediately start coughing, back to the feedback loop. This goes on for an hour, total misery. Another hour.. eventually you start to realize: I won’t be breathing real breathes for a few days, and that thing in my windpipe is not going to be coming out until this is over. But if you lay perfectly still... your heart can survive on these itty bitty breathes. As soon as you move a muscle, like lift your leg.. your heart rate jumps up and the coughing loop starts. Getting up to the restroom is a battle that takes 5-10 minutes of suffering, coughing loop, suffocation.. it’s just the way it is. Super annoying!!! And you got this damn headache that feels like a hangover on top of it, body is sore and beat up like it got ran over! The only positive is that the lack of oxygen helps you feel drunk. Anyway.. this is nothing like a “flu”. Sure most all will survive and be fine, as anyone would if they had to hike 100 miles though the wilderness. I really don’t want to deal with this stupid thing again. I’d pick food poisoning every time. They officially added new symptoms, headache one of them. To me that was one of the very unique things about my sickness.. the sickness came on fast like whole body wants to lay down “ah crap I got the flu”. But the ridiculous insane headache in the morning was unexplainable, especially considering I’d continually alternate NyQuil or Ibuprofen as soon as I knew I was getting sick. over the counter stuff always controls headaches for me, so why not this time? Other notable thing is the double-vision/confusion. & no sneezing or plugged up nose, like the way normal flu would be.. Around day 3 the headache and body aches were gone, and I started to cough up phlegm so I figured I was better, except I worried about possible pneumonia, when I breathed it sounded like scratchy pots. But when I went downstairs, I was totally exhausted and out of breath, continuously coughing up dark green stuff. And I could not for the life of me focus my vision on anything. I felt fine, not dizzy, but I’d look at something, and it would go in and out of focus. I tried to think of stuff and I could not think clear, it was like a total blank. I even tried to dream about someday getting vintage Nuemanns and 80 series neves, and I couldn’t get excited at all. I was like “meh so what”. That’s not me .. ever! Also wanted to let you guys know.. it’s mostly not bad. After the fever/chills/etc.. and while laying in bed, it feels like you are 100% fine, as long as you lie perfectly still and not coughing. I was on my phone all day, passing my waking time. The phone helped keeping me from thinking about it. And I’d forget I was sick and think I must be better.. then I’d move my leg and my heart would start beating fast, my lungs would try to pull in air.. nope! And when I eventually started coughing up blood streaks.. I knew I was entering a dangerous phase. But I was so freaking ‘bonked’ it was like “meh so what” LOL |
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Post by christopher on Apr 26, 2020 13:30:11 GMT -6
One last thing.. week 2 I beat it with help of tusslin pearles to control the cough and Z pack. My wife also gave me some Whole Foods hippy Native American tree-roots and bark juice as a robitussin alternative that supposedly customers rave about... tasted god awful. She says that it helped ..I was at angry she didn’t buy real robitussin. She and the kids took that as an immune booster and emergen-C everyday, they all had very mild fever (99degrees) a few days after mine and fine the next day. I think it’s just luck, but worth considering I guess.
After 3 weeks the cough was a little lingering thing. But I was exhausted 24/7..
At about 6 weeks I tried to go back to my normal hike and I could only make it about 1/4 mile on mostly flat area before being completely out of breath and turning back.
At 8 weeks I helped do some construction work on pavers and I was almost useless. After about 10 pavers felt like I was already bonked out and weak. So weird! I stayed working for a couple hours but I was on fumes.
At 10 weeks I finally started to feel mostly back to normal, I could do my hike, but I was obviously way WAY out of shape and breathing heavier than I used to. They closed the parks a few days later
Now I’m exercising at home and working at building up my lung capacity. I’m happy to report that it is improving and I’m over 90% back to normal, I think it will be 100% back to normal very soon.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 26, 2020 16:17:19 GMT -6
Maybe it’s time to close the thread. Looks like we’ve scared off a longtime member of the site over it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 26, 2020 16:18:42 GMT -6
Well, he’s not dead from Covid lol. Looks like he’s just chosen to take his football and not come back for two weeks. Bummer.
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Post by drbill on Apr 26, 2020 19:22:59 GMT -6
Huh? It's not in the pro audio forum. You've got to go looking for it. I don't see the problem. Maybe in 2 weeks his part of the country will be opened up and he'll be feeling better?
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Post by swurveman on Apr 29, 2020 8:33:35 GMT -6
My mom is also on an assisted living facility. A very wealthy one, where they are constantly testing employees. One employee tested positive and they’ve quarantined all the residents indefinitely. At least where I live, I don’t think your average, or poor, nursing homes are getting the same protections. How else do you explain the huge number of infected elderly where the virus is infecting hundreds?
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Post by drbill on Apr 29, 2020 10:36:08 GMT -6
Yeah, sounds pretty similar to here. They have been in lockdown for well over a month, and it's about as aggressive a lockdown as a minimum security prison.  No guns, but very aggressive in their approach. No employee's have tested positive in my in-laws facility though. But they are pretty much all that way here. The local city / county have highly "suggested" that. I'm sure the poorer ones don't have as good of guard power though. LOL Still, quite odd the way the stats have played out here. This county of 250k has virtually no industry other than construction, education and the basic life services. It's a highly desirable retirement locale due to various reasons, so we have a higher proportionate amount of elderly folks. The facilities go from literally dirt poor, to quite wealthy luxury style places. Sounds similar to where you mom is. But the stats sure don't seem to follow what is publicized nation/worldwide. We also have a high percentage of kids that are sick (comparatively - percentage wise)....and virtually every age group has more infections than the elderly age group. 0-17 : 7 18-44 : 15 45-54 : 14 55-64 : 16 65-74: 17 75-older : 11 We sadly had our second death, but right now, there are very few new cases being reported. Only 3-4 in the last week. But we had 6 recoveries in the last few days, so total amount of infected is actually going down. From my perspective, the infection, and impact seems very flat here. Lots of elderly folks, lots of opportunity, but not lots of cases... ?? Those in the "healthier" age brackets - 18-64 - while less in number are much higher in percentage. More than to 2:1 here. |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on May 11, 2020 7:42:45 GMT -6
I have an Operating Room Nurse who is a friend of mine back in the Cincinnati market were we use to live. 2 months ago when this thing first started, the major hospital she worked at completely shut down the OR floor and converted every bed on that floor to a Covid unit. Not only that, but they instructed ALL the OR nurses that they were to part ways with their families and the hospital rented several houses and was to put 4 nurses in each house during the pandemic.
Day 1 on the Covid unit... all nurses show up with all their PPE on and waited. Not one patient showed up.
Day 2 My friend and ALL the other OR nurses was laid off and sent home without pay.
Update... the OR floor is still empty and she's yet to go back to work, nor has any of her colleagues.
As for me, I've went to work everyday and not much has changed for me. I've asked the hundreds of people I work with if they know of anyone effected by Covid directly. The answer is always no.
I know know of no one myself. Can this be explained to me???
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Post by EmRR on May 11, 2020 10:06:44 GMT -6
It means the measures taken to slow the spread have worked, and it hasn't reached you. But it primarily means our system of income/commerce/government is not equipped to mitigate the collateral damage of a public health emergency. Other systems might be working better at that aspect, time will tell. Not that you want those systems the rest of the time.
I'm discovering that, because my business invested heavily last year and posted the lowest net income in years, it all counts against me in terms of assistance now. PPP and unemployment look just about worthless, I could beg more money than that on street corners. And many will.....
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Post by teejay on May 11, 2020 10:28:06 GMT -6
Two experiences to share.
1. My parents went into assisted living back in November. My dad had accelerated health problems starting in February, and after two weeks in the hospital, three weeks in a rehab facility (unsuccessful), he returned to the AL facility on 3/12 with the stipulation that he be on hospice and have 24x7 caregivers in addition to hospice workers and the AL staff. That very day the facility issued its lock-down. We initially thought we were not getting back in, but they made some provision for my wife and I to periodically visit. Long story short, we were eventually asked to stay out but were called on April 15th, 12 hours before he passed away and were able to be there. Once he was gone, they locked us out again. That left my mom, who is 90 and had been married to dad for 67 years, to grieve all alone. After having hospice, 24 hour care, and family there for a month, she has no one. The AL staff are doing their best, but with the lock-down they have no time to spend with someone. She also has some dementia, so she is confused and forgetting things, and we have been told by staff that she is grieving harder than normal. The AL facility has had two cases among non-health workers, but otherwise the facility does not have cases. I'm glad they are protecting their residents, but with the governor of IL being of the mindset he is...and trying to protect Chicago...the remainder of the state is suffering from prolonged restrictions with no end in sight. If Covid doesn't kill my mom, the loneliness compounded by solitary grieving just may.
2. My daughter is a PA in urgent cares for a well-known hospital system in a large metropolitan area. She told my wife and I that if she shows symptoms of Covid and needs to go to the hospital, that we should NOT take her to the hospital system she works for. Any patients that are brought in and diagnosed as having or potentially having Covid are immediately designated as DNR (Do Not Resuscitate)...that's regardless of age, other health issues, etc. It's across the board, non-negotiable.
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Post by EmRR on May 11, 2020 11:23:53 GMT -6
Sorry to hear toddj.
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No guns, but very aggressive in their approach. No employee's have tested positive in my in-laws facility though. But they are pretty much all that way here. The local city / county have highly "suggested" that. I'm sure the poorer ones don't have as good of guard power though. LOL
