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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 1, 2020 11:45:58 GMT -6
It also depends on which antibodies you're testing for. For Covid I think they test for IgG and IgM (if I remember correct). But not all tests look for both. You can have the presence of one antibody that only shows up during an acute phase of the virus while the other shows up later.
edit: And thats not to be confused with nasal swabs which have a different method of detection and are prone to user error
Many "cold" viruses are coronaviruses very similar to this strain. Antibody tests use proteins from the virus shell to elicit a reaction from cultured blood samples. I have yet to see anywhere that these other coronaviruses can't cause false positives in either the rapid tests or the antibody tests. You'd think that they'd be able to, but most of these types of tests are rather broad and full of error. Yeah its a cluster fuck. At my hospital they tested almost all employees for antibodies to see who had been exposed. This strictly for employees who had never had any symptoms. Out of a several thousand people almost no one tested positive...which is statically questionable to say the least. It led everyone to believe the test was flawed so they abandoned the testing. |
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Post by drbill on Jul 1, 2020 13:11:40 GMT -6
Since I last reported in, our large sq. mile, and minimally populated county has started to get slammed. Our hospitals are not overwhelmed (yet), but positive case hospitalizations are up literally 10X's what they were only 10 days ago. Deaths climbing too - which was not happening for the last month. They were stable for almost 6 weeks. The "total numbers" are not alarming because they are still small, but percentage wise, it's pushing towards that "exponential" growth that was touted early April, late March.
I have some ideas as to "why", but it's mere speculation on my part. One thing is certain, for the last month since things started to open up, few people have been wearing masks, a HUGE contingent of younger folks are living in disbelief (which is now biting back as 1-24 year olds have by far the highest percentage of infections here), and people are just sick of the possibility of "being sick" - hence, life as per normal is in vogue. Social distancing thrown out the window in favor of "life as usual".
Now....all that said, things are changing fast in the last couple of days as the numbers coming in are staggering and pretty damn scary - compared to seeing it happen in a densely populated area on the other side of the country.
I predict (fear) that we will be (or perhaps should be??) in lockdown again soon. Or close to it. And I don't think we'll be out of this for a year or maybe longer....
PS - just a FYI.... I'm only getting my facts from the county health website. I'm not listening to the news for either side at this point. The media for both sides has only my contempt. And the politicians are quite literally criminal. Both sides. So disappointed that a country once so great has degraded to partisan bickering and costing precious lives in the balance. My father who landed on - and survived - Omaha beach and risked his life for this country (and our allied neighbors) would be beyond disbelief. I'm actually glad he's not here to experience this BS.
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Post by svart on Jul 1, 2020 13:31:13 GMT -6
Since I last reported in, our large sq. mile, and minimally populated county has started to get slammed. Our hospitals are not overwhelmed (yet), but positive case hospitalizations are up literally 10X's what they were only 10 days ago. Deaths climbing too - which was not happening for the last month. They were stable for almost 6 weeks. The "total numbers" are not alarming because they are still small, but percentage wise, it's pushing towards that "exponential" growth that was touted early April, late March. I have some ideas as to "why", but it's mere speculation on my part. One thing is certain, for the last month since things started to open up, few people have been wearing masks, a HUGE contingent of younger folks are living in disbelief (which is now biting back as 1-24 year olds have by far the highest percentage of infections here), and people are just sick of the possibility of "being sick" - hence, life as per normal is in vogue. Social distancing thrown out the window in favor of "life as usual". Now....all that said, things are changing fast in the last couple of days as the numbers coming in are staggering and pretty damn scary - compared to seeing it happen in a densely populated area on the other side of the country. I predict (fear) that we will be in lockdown again soon. Or close to it. And I don't think we'll be out of this for a year or maybe longer.... PS - just a FYI.... I'm only getting my facts from the county health website. I'm not listening to the news for either side at this point. The media for both sides has only my contempt. And the politicians are quite literally criminal. Both sides. So disappointed that a country once so great has degraded to partisan bickering and costing precious lives in the balance. My father who landed on Omaha beach and risked his life for this country (and our allied neighbors) would be beyond disbelief. I'm actually glad he's not here to experience this BS. What's interesting is when you look at the data objectively, you'll notice that the increase (it's since dropped for a few days in a row) is not quite as fast as the first go-round, and if you consider the number of deaths overall (some locations have higher deaths, while most are still going down), the rise in cases is not coupled to the rise in deaths like it was the first time. If you plot the deaths based on timing of first lockdowns, the cities and states that locked down early experienced the vast bulk of deaths whereas the cities and states that waited did not see nearly a spike in deaths even though their overall cases were higher. Same with the easing of the lockdowns, the states that did so early saw a fast decrease in deaths while the slow easing states continued to see deaths at a high ratio to positive cases. 95% of people put on ventilators die anyway. 80% of the deaths have been elderly. Almost 50% of positive tests are asymptomatic. There's a measurable dip in deaths of other causes such as cancer and heart attacks as people die of "covid" who would have otherwise died of other diseases in the same time period. The death rate is now closer to 0.2% and is almost in line with seasonal "normal" deaths due to the large numbers of mild cases being reported now and the low corresponding deaths. It's almost as if the knee-jerk lockdowns caused the spike in deaths, either by forcing people to shelter together in larger groups for fear of being separated over long periods, or the early medical treatments were hasty or ill-conceived, or simply overly aggressive (ignoring the obviously murderous actions of putting sick people in with nursing home patients). In either case, a lot of out-of-the-way locations are now being hit, adding to the second wave bump, which is driven almost entirely by the increase in testing. If you normalize the number of positive cases over time by the number of tests given, the trend is actually slightly downwards meaning that it's the increase in testing causing the plotted bump. |
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Post by EmRR on Jul 1, 2020 13:35:57 GMT -6
I predict (fear) that we will be (or perhaps should be??) in lockdown again soon. Or close to it. And I don't think we'll be out of this for a year or maybe longer.... Yeah. Only a week to 10 days ago some live event work in Sept looked realistic, now I'll be extremely surprised if it's not cancelled again. At this rate, it wouldn't surprise me for EU travel from US to be closed until March or later. Brexit by Dec 31? HAHAHAHAHAHHA |
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Post by drbill on Jul 1, 2020 15:01:52 GMT -6
Since I last reported in, our large sq. mile, and minimally populated county has started to get slammed. Our hospitals are not overwhelmed (yet), but positive case hospitalizations are up literally 10X's what they were only 10 days ago. Deaths climbing too - which was not happening for the last month. They were stable for almost 6 weeks. The "total numbers" are not alarming because they are still small, but percentage wise, it's pushing towards that "exponential" growth that was touted early April, late March. I have some ideas as to "why", but it's mere speculation on my part. One thing is certain, for the last month since things started to open up, few people have been wearing masks, a HUGE contingent of younger folks are living in disbelief (which is now biting back as 1-24 year olds have by far the highest percentage of infections here), and people are just sick of the possibility of "being sick" - hence, life as per normal is in vogue. Social distancing thrown out the window in favor of "life as usual". Now....all that said, things are changing fast in the last couple of days as the numbers coming in are staggering and pretty damn scary - compared to seeing it happen in a densely populated area on the other side of the country. I predict (fear) that we will be in lockdown again soon. Or close to it. And I don't think we'll be out of this for a year or maybe longer.... PS - just a FYI.... I'm only getting my facts from the county health website. I'm not listening to the news for either side at this point. The media for both sides has only my contempt. And the politicians are quite literally criminal. Both sides. So disappointed that a country once so great has degraded to partisan bickering and costing precious lives in the balance. My father who landed on Omaha beach and risked his life for this country (and our allied neighbors) would be beyond disbelief. I'm actually glad he's not here to experience this BS. adding to the second wave bump, which is driven almost entirely by the increase in testing. If you normalize the number of positive cases over time by the number of tests given, the trend is actually slightly downwards meaning that it's the increase in testing causing the plotted bump. Increased testing is not what caused our hospitalizations to go up 10X's in 10 days. Increased testing in AZ has of course shown more cases, but the concerning issue is that the cases per thousand that are positive has gone up several percentage points. The trend is anything BUT downward here. More positives, WAY more hospitalizations, more deaths. PS - and for those still thinking this is a "seasonal" type flu....guess again. It's 105-110 farenheit in Phoenix, and this thing is blowing up faster than you can keep track of it. (Thank God I live up higher.....  . How would you even know if you had a fever there? LOL) |
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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 1, 2020 15:52:13 GMT -6
I saw a statistic that was Covid Deaths as a percentage of Hospitalizations. I wish I could find it again, for accuracy sake. But basically we started at a rate of around 6% of Hospitalizations ending in death, and are now down to like 1%. Which is great news.
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Post by drbill on Jul 1, 2020 16:51:06 GMT -6
I saw a statistic that was Covid Deaths as a percentage of Hospitalizations. I wish I could find it again, for accuracy sake. But basically we started at a rate of around 6% of Hospitalizations ending in death, and are now down to like 1%. Which is great news. That is great. Perhaps due to more people being informed about treatments and also refusing Ventilators? |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 1, 2020 17:41:02 GMT -6
Something that concerns me is watching people silo covid statistics. Every hospitalized covid patient is one less bed available to serve the needs of other patients.
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Post by rowmat on Jul 1, 2020 19:57:21 GMT -6
Apart from the more frail elderly look at the overall health of those who either die or suffer severe symptoms. Almost all have co-morbidities such as obsesity, diabetes, cardio vascular disease, hypertension etc. and invariably insufficient Vitamin D levels.
CV19 appears to turbocharge existing health issues with diabetes like vascular damage often occuring in organs such as the avioli in the lungs, kidney failure and also tissue damage in the extremities.
I have spent the lockdown eating a Keto diet (cutting sugar and carbs), exercising and have lost 20lbs in two months and am now no longer in the pre-diabetic state I was at the end of 2019.
Maybe the best vaccine for this is not a vaccine but a change in diet and lifestyle away from the recommended corporate/government sponsored food pyramid which has only help to create the health crisis most of the West has succeeded to in the last 40 years.
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Post by svart on Jul 1, 2020 20:52:45 GMT -6
Apart from the more frail elderly look at the overall health of those who either die or suffer severe symptoms. Almost all have co-morbidities such as obsesity, diabetes, cardio vascular disease, hypertension etc. and invariably insufficient Vitamin D levels. CV19 appears to turbocharge existing health issues with diabetes like vascular damage often occuring in organs such as the avioli in the lungs, kidney failure and also tissue damage in the extremities. I have spent the lockdown eating a Keto diet (cutting sugar and carbs), exercising and have lost 20lbs in two months and am now no longer in the pre-diabetic state I was at the end of 2019. Maybe the best vaccine for this is not a vaccine but a change in diet and lifestyle away from the recommended corporate/government sponsored food pyramid which has only help to create the health crisis most of the West has succeeded to in the last 40 years. An amazing(albeit sad) statistic is that the majority of our Medicare/Medicaid expenditures go to elderly peoples with end stage preventable diseases such as diabetes and heart disease. The USA is indeed the land of the obese and unhealthy and most of these people knew their health conditions would lead them down those paths but did nothing to prevent them, but when the conditions become chronic and grave, suddenly no price is too high to bill to the public funds. It's sad that instead of teaching personal responsibility at younger ages that could prevent health issues at a later age, we instead call for increased funding for these funds and greater healthcare investment that quietly suggests procrastinating now and hail-Mary treatments later as an option. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Jul 1, 2020 21:05:28 GMT -6
Something that concerns me is watching people silo covid statistics. Every hospitalized covid patient is one less bed available to serve the needs of other patients. You're very correct in that alot of people who needed to be served by hospitals weren't...but it happened in a very backwards way. Hospitals like my own stopped all non-emergent surgeries and procedures in anticipation of a huge surge that didn't come. It wasn't physical lack of beds or staff. We stopped that policy weeks ago but things still haven't picked up to where they used to be pre-covid. Our ICU's have a pretty normal (busy) census, but the rest of the hospital is still slow. We're laying people off slowly, cutting shifts and people are taking pay cuts. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2020 6:07:37 GMT -6
Meanwhile in Europe ...
So, I live in a city of 100,000 that is the gate to Scandinavia directly at the danish border.
So, when covid19 hit Germany and Scandinavia, Denmark closed the border and we instantly had not even half the travels to our city, which is a good thing to prevent spreading from Denmark and Hamburg (next center of covid19 in the south, from where all transportation to the north starts). Due to these lucky circumstances, we had lowest statistics possible, 3 death cases in 100,000, and nearly 0 new infections over 2 months in the city and surrounding villages. Additionally, people strictly took the measures seriously and thank god our mayor did a very good job in communication and reason, she is quite popular and people take things seriously to keep the statistics down. Since 2 weeks, there has been a loosening of regulations, groups of 10 can meet privately again, businesses went to a larger percentage back to "normal" ... whatever this is now. It was forseeable that this resulted in 19 new cases, but this is still extremely low rate of infection. Yesterday I was at the first club meeting of my musician's club since months, and we took all measures to keep things safe while still being very happy to be able to meet again months and debating next steps regaring our concert and festival management under these strange circumstances, planning events with seated low-count audience just to do at least "something" for the cultural landscape of our state this year. Strange things going on in the businesses, some go still well besides the measures, others, like my beloved bakery around the corner, gave up business after two weeks already. I spoke to an event manager, who told me they are doing small events with all precaution "just to do something". So a few of them have at least a little bit of work ... out of the 80 employees that mostly are sitting at home and doing puzzles and garden work or whatever ... Other businesses went on total hold and it is unsure if they reopen at all, and the employees haven't the slightest clue, how long things go on like this. Masks are still mandatory inside of shops and public transportation, so is the regulated social distance in public. The busses and trains are still pretty empty in comparison to before covid19, people avoid public transportation, if possible (public transportation is a huge thing in Germany, so it feels very strange for me to take a bus ride nowadays). My personal situation has been chaotic to bad the last weeks, but not due to covid19... some health issues with the shoulder and neck (C6/C7) that are quite painful and resulted in 3 numb fingers on the left hand, unsure if this goes away at all, depression (seems to be much more common these days even for people who never dealt with it before), and the idea, that I have to quit playing bass in the worst case, which would be quite a personal catastrophy for me ... My band moved our whole equipment for the 3. time without one day of rehearsal, we got a new rehearsal room, which got flooded by 80l water per hour and square meter, which is the level of Ragnarökk / the Deluge, even in a rainy area like ours. Come on, hail(!) and floody rain that exceeded the worst autumn storms of the north on a day that had 25 degree celsius, T-Shirt and sunglasses june summer, in the morning? Tell me about climate change... Of course, we just carpeted the floor a few days before and all our equipment layed flat on the floor, my to be installed recording rig, computer, mixer, amps, pa, the whole stuff, waiting to be build up again. I meet up with the others later today to see, how bad damages are. Additionally I had some problems with offices that gave some financial pressure. Oh man, if things go bad, they really go bad.
I am very curious how things proceed.
It is a very unsure situation, nobody knows how long we have to live with the masks, social distancing, crude regulations that sometimes contradict themselves, because nobody really know how to handle the situation with covid on the long run. In the end we wait for a vaccination that works, how long this takes anyhow. I have a good friend of mine in a research group in Freiburg, macrobiology/genetics, we are long-time friends and phone via FB like every other day or so. I once wrote a software for their group that they use to compare stocked oligos for matching in parts with genetic chains and minimalize unnecessary purchases of oligos ... nerdy genetics stuff ... They are working on a vaccine on the base of their hbv /hepatitis B research, their lead has a patent on a procedure to "impregnate" a genetic chain with information that can be used as a "known-tolerable" side effect vaccination with very little testing - if it works. He sees it as his last personal goal, he planned to be retired end of the year... Of course his team is not the only one working on vaccination methods for covid 19. Right now she is part of a study regarding covid19, so she get's a testing for free. It is possible she had Covid 19 last end november beginning december, she had a really serious infection that time, that in retrospect looks like that. There is a major flight connection to Wuhan right around her corner in Konstanz, in her research team there are even some chinese researchers...
We often talk about covid 19 and the then momentary situation. Looks like this could be, worst case, a thing that will change life for at least part of next year ... or seriously longer.
I am depressed but still interested in how things go on. Sometimes I really admire your american optimism. No sarcasm. I really do. I sometimes wish I would not be that realist/pessimist type of guy. I blame intelligence and education for this. OK, this now IS sarcasm...
Stay safe and healthy guys, all the best.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 2, 2020 12:34:36 GMT -6
Something that concerns me is watching people silo covid statistics. Every hospitalized covid patient is one less bed available to serve the needs of other patients. You're very correct in that alot of people who needed to be served by hospitals weren't...but it happened in a very backwards way. Hospitals like my own stopped all non-emergent surgeries and procedures in anticipation of a huge surge that didn't come. It wasn't physical lack of beds or staff. We stopped that policy weeks ago but things still haven't picked up to where they used to be pre-covid. Our ICU's have a pretty normal (busy) census, but the rest of the hospital is still slow. We're laying people off slowly, cutting shifts and people are taking pay cuts. Unfortunately, if you wait before preparing for a surge until it begins you'll be too late and the resulting deaths will really trash the economy. |
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Post by rowmat on Jul 2, 2020 18:24:47 GMT -6
Apart from the more frail elderly look at the overall health of those who either die or suffer severe symptoms. Almost all have co-morbidities such as obsesity, diabetes, cardio vascular disease, hypertension etc. and invariably insufficient Vitamin D levels. CV19 appears to turbocharge existing health issues with diabetes like vascular damage often occuring in organs such as the avioli in the lungs, kidney failure and also tissue damage in the extremities. I have spent the lockdown eating a Keto diet (cutting sugar and carbs), exercising and have lost 20lbs in two months and am now no longer in the pre-diabetic state I was at the end of 2019. Maybe the best vaccine for this is not a vaccine but a change in diet and lifestyle away from the recommended corporate/government sponsored food pyramid which has only help to create the health crisis most of the West has succeeded to in the last 40 years. An amazing(albeit sad) statistic is that the majority of our Medicare/Medicaid expenditures go to elderly peoples with end stage preventable diseases such as diabetes and heart disease. The USA is indeed the land of the obese and unhealthy and most of these people knew their health conditions would lead them down those paths but did nothing to prevent them, but when the conditions become chronic and grave, suddenly no price is too high to bill to the public funds. It's sad that instead of teaching personal responsibility at younger ages that could prevent health issues at a later age, we instead call for increased funding for these funds and greater healthcare investment that quietly suggests procrastinating now and hail-Mary treatments later as an option. Most have lulled themselves into a sense of denial and besides, "There's a pill for that." Metabolic Syndrome and its associated effects is a multi billion dollar bonanza for the processed food industry, healthcare and big pharma. |
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 2, 2020 18:54:23 GMT -6
Apart from the more frail elderly look at the overall health of those who either die or suffer severe symptoms. Almost all have co-morbidities such as obsesity, diabetes, cardio vascular disease, hypertension etc. and invariably insufficient Vitamin D levels. CV19 appears to turbocharge existing health issues with diabetes like vascular damage often occuring in organs such as the avioli in the lungs, kidney failure and also tissue damage in the extremities. I have spent the lockdown eating a Keto diet (cutting sugar and carbs), exercising and have lost 20lbs in two months and am now no longer in the pre-diabetic state I was at the end of 2019. Maybe the best vaccine for this is not a vaccine but a change in diet and lifestyle away from the recommended corporate/government sponsored food pyramid which has only help to create the health crisis most of the West has succeeded to in the last 40 years. An amazing(albeit sad) statistic is that the majority of our Medicare/Medicaid expenditures go to elderly peoples with end stage preventable diseases such as diabetes and heart disease. The USA is indeed the land of the obese and unhealthy and most of these people knew their health conditions would lead them down those paths but did nothing to prevent them, but when the conditions become chronic and grave, suddenly no price is too high to bill to the public funds. It's sad that instead of teaching personal responsibility at younger ages that could prevent health issues at a later age, we instead call for increased funding for these funds and greater healthcare investment that quietly suggests procrastinating now and hail-Mary treatments later as an option. Wait JUST ONE MINUTE!
I'm going to be 70 next week. Are you FUCKING TELLING THAT i SHOULD JUST GIVE UP AND DIE?
Because that's what it sounds like to me.
Where do you live? Seems like I should be paying a visit to you - I'm not dying. I'm not going to be dying.
MAYBE YOU should think about dying.
If it seems like a good idea, by all means do it.
If not, just SHADDUP!
Dumbass punks.....
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Post by rowmat on Jul 2, 2020 19:09:22 GMT -6
An amazing(albeit sad) statistic is that the majority of our Medicare/Medicaid expenditures go to elderly peoples with end stage preventable diseases such as diabetes and heart disease. The USA is indeed the land of the obese and unhealthy and most of these people knew their health conditions would lead them down those paths but did nothing to prevent them, but when the conditions become chronic and grave, suddenly no price is too high to bill to the public funds. It's sad that instead of teaching personal responsibility at younger ages that could prevent health issues at a later age, we instead call for increased funding for these funds and greater healthcare investment that quietly suggests procrastinating now and hail-Mary treatments later as an option. Wait JUST ONE MINUTE!
I'm going to be 70 next week. Are you FUCKING TELLING THAT i SHOULD JUST GIVE UP AND DIE?
Because that's what it sounds like to me.
Where do you live? Seems like I should be paying a visit to you - I'm not dying. I'm not going to be dying.
MAYBE YOU should think about dying.
If it seems like a good idea, by all means do it.
If not, just SHADDUP!
Dumbass punks.....
Oh yeah, and the FBI arrested your girlfriend. 
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 13:22:18 GMT -6
An amazing(albeit sad) statistic is that the majority of our Medicare/Medicaid expenditures go to elderly peoples with end stage preventable diseases such as diabetes and heart disease. The USA is indeed the land of the obese and unhealthy and most of these people knew their health conditions would lead them down those paths but did nothing to prevent them, but when the conditions become chronic and grave, suddenly no price is too high to bill to the public funds. It's sad that instead of teaching personal responsibility at younger ages that could prevent health issues at a later age, we instead call for increased funding for these funds and greater healthcare investment that quietly suggests procrastinating now and hail-Mary treatments later as an option. Wait JUST ONE MINUTE!
I'm going to be 70 next week. Are you FUCKING TELLING THAT i SHOULD JUST GIVE UP AND DIE?
Because that's what it sounds like to me.
Where do you live? Seems like I should be paying a visit to you - I'm not dying. I'm not going to be dying.
MAYBE YOU should think about dying.
If it seems like a good idea, by all means do it.
If not, just SHADDUP!
Dumbass punks.....
I wrote a long and angry post after seeing how the thread developed in the last posts. I decided not to post it. You addressed it shorter and more clearly. |
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Post by m03 on Jul 3, 2020 16:26:05 GMT -6
I'm going to be 70 next week. Are you FUCKING TELLING THAT i SHOULD JUST GIVE UP AND DIE? That doesn't appear to be what he was saying. The comments seem to be more of a lament that some people have spent decades gobbling every fatty, sugary, fried butter blob they could get their greasy, tobacco stained flippers on, and then demanded to be sent to the front of the line for treatment when they ran into health issues. I'd personally like to see far more education and emphasis on healthy living taught in public schools. Not that there isn't any, but it's treated as unimportant and more of a "run 10 laps to get a passing grade" and not "here's how your body treats different patterns of cardio and why you shouldn't sit all day, here's how stretching will help you, here's how to take a fall, here's how 10 minutes of Yoga will benefit you in 6 months, here are medical studies on exercise, etc". Though, if the above extremely sensationalized statement describes your health regime, then I don't know what to tell you. |
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 3, 2020 19:20:00 GMT -6
Wait JUST ONE MINUTE!
I'm going to be 70 next week. Are you FUCKING TELLING THAT i SHOULD JUST GIVE UP AND DIE?
Because that's what it sounds like to me.
Where do you live? Seems like I should be paying a visit to you - I'm not dying. I'm not going to be dying.
MAYBE YOU should think about dying.
If it seems like a good idea, by all means do it.
If not, just SHADDUP!
Dumbass punks.....
I wrote a long and angry post after seeing how the thread developed in the last posts. I decided not to post it. You addressed it shorter and more clearly. Thank you! |
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 3, 2020 19:29:34 GMT -6
I'm going to be 70 next week. Are you FUCKING TELLING THAT i SHOULD JUST GIVE UP AND DIE? That doesn't appear to be what he was saying. The comments seem to be more of a lament that some people have spent decades gobbling every fatty, sugary, fried butter blob they could get their greasy, tobacco stained flippers on, and then demanded to be sent to the front of the line for treatment when they ran into health issues. I'd personally like to see far more education and emphasis on healthy living taught in public schools. Not that there isn't any, but it's treated as unimportant and more of a "run 10 laps to get a passing grade" and not "here's how your body treats different patterns of cardio and why you shouldn't sit all day, here's how stretching will help you, here's how to take a fall, here's how 10 minutes of Yoga will benefit you in 6 months, here are medical studies on exercise, etc". Though, if the above extremely sensationalized statement describes your health regime, then I don't know what to tell you. That's not at all what I read into it.
I read it as telling all us "old folks" to shut up and die, we're not worth anything anyway - and I STRENUOUSLY object to it.
And I also object to what you just posted, too. I strikes me as being very "foodist" in a particular hippie/faddist way. "spent decades gobbling every fatty, sugary, fried butter blob they could get their greasy, tobacco stained flippers on, and then demanded to be sent to the front of the line for treatment when they ran into health issues." 
Are you kidding? Because that just pisses me off.
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Post by svart on Jul 3, 2020 19:59:21 GMT -6
That doesn't appear to be what he was saying. The comments seem to be more of a lament that some people have spent decades gobbling every fatty, sugary, fried butter blob they could get their greasy, tobacco stained flippers on, and then demanded to be sent to the front of the line for treatment when they ran into health issues. I'd personally like to see far more education and emphasis on healthy living taught in public schools. Not that there isn't any, but it's treated as unimportant and more of a "run 10 laps to get a passing grade" and not "here's how your body treats different patterns of cardio and why you shouldn't sit all day, here's how stretching will help you, here's how to take a fall, here's how 10 minutes of Yoga will benefit you in 6 months, here are medical studies on exercise, etc". Though, if the above extremely sensationalized statement describes your health regime, then I don't know what to tell you. That's not at all what I read into it.
I read it as telling all us "old folks" to shut up and die, we're not worth anything anyway - and I STRENUOUSLY object to it.
And I also object to what you just posted, too. I strikes me as being very "foodist" in a particular hippie/faddist way. "spent decades gobbling every fatty, sugary, fried butter blob they could get their greasy, tobacco stained flippers on, and then demanded to be sent to the front of the line for treatment when they ran into health issues."
Are you kidding? Because that just pisses me off.
I thought you were kidding at first, but now I realize you're serious. Wow. You either need medication, or to get off of it. Nobody said old people should die. In fact, I said that we should teach younger generations to take better care of themselves so they live longer without the Herculean amounts of drugs, medical care and money it currently takes to keep people alive, albeit essentially suffering with their afflictions. You read what your paranoid mind wanted to see. Nothing more. |
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Post by rowmat on Jul 3, 2020 20:29:50 GMT -6
That's not at all what I read into it.
I read it as telling all us "old folks" to shut up and die, we're not worth anything anyway - and I STRENUOUSLY object to it.
And I also object to what you just posted, too. I strikes me as being very "foodist" in a particular hippie/faddist way. "spent decades gobbling every fatty, sugary, fried butter blob they could get their greasy, tobacco stained flippers on, and then demanded to be sent to the front of the line for treatment when they ran into health issues."
Are you kidding? Because that just pisses me off.
I thought you were kidding at first, but now I realize you're serious. Wow. You either need medication, or to get off of it. Nobody said old people should die. In fact, I said that we should teach younger generations to take better care of themselves so they live longer without the Herculean amounts of drugs, medical care and money it currently takes to keep people alive, albeit essentially suffering with their afflictions. You read what your paranoid mind wanted to see. Nothing more. I find it fucking hilarious that he thought he was being deliberately singled out. |
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Post by svart on Jul 3, 2020 20:37:33 GMT -6
I thought you were kidding at first, but now I realize you're serious. Wow. You either need medication, or to get off of it. Nobody said old people should die. In fact, I said that we should teach younger generations to take better care of themselves so they live longer without the Herculean amounts of drugs, medical care and money it currently takes to keep people alive, albeit essentially suffering with their afflictions. You read what your paranoid mind wanted to see. Nothing more. I find it fucking hilarious that he thought he was being deliberately singled out. He's just an angry curmudgeon with some kind of paranoia going on. Tons of folks on here have had him blow up over misreadings and whatnot. Everything is wrong, everything is bad, unless it's his opinion on something, then it's supposed to be golden and infallible and then when you disagree he gets angry over that too. Some people are just like that. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2020 7:40:14 GMT -6
Guys, you are talking about changing the rules and treat people in hospital not after the seriousness of their conditions, but worse depending on their everyday lifestyle, if they are poor (healthy food IS more expensive in the US), and IMHO after your own moral ideas.
To my mind came words like social darwinism, bad triage, inhuman and lack of empathy.
Call me paranoid ... but I take my medication every day.
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Post by svart on Jul 4, 2020 8:50:05 GMT -6
Guys, you are talking about changing the rules and treat people in hospital not after the seriousness of their conditions, but worse depending on their everyday lifestyle, if they are poor (healthy food IS more expensive in the US), and IMHO after your own moral ideas. To my mind came words like social darwinism, bad triage, inhuman and lack of empathy. Call me paranoid ... but I take my medication every day. No. I already said that's not what I said. I said teach people to be more healthy so they live better lives when they're older and cut down our out of control healthcare costs and high mortality rate from preventable diseases. Maybe you don't understand what it's like here, but there is very little health education about diet here, and part of that is the myth of eating healthy being expensive. Too much marketing junk foods and unhealthy behavior and not enough education to offset it because the sugar and junk food industries lobby the government. |
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Post by rowmat on Jul 4, 2020 12:25:49 GMT -6
Guys, you are talking about changing the rules and treat people in hospital not after the seriousness of their conditions, but worse depending on their everyday lifestyle, if they are poor (healthy food IS more expensive in the US), and IMHO after your own moral ideas. To my mind came words like social darwinism, bad triage, inhuman and lack of empathy. Call me paranoid ... but I take my medication every day. No. I already said that's not what I said. I said teach people to be more healthy so they live better lives when they're older and cut down our out of control healthcare costs and high mortality rate from preventable diseases. Maybe you don't understand what it's like here, but there is very little health education about diet here, and part of that is the myth of eating healthy being expensive. Too much marketing junk foods and unhealthy behavior and not enough education to offset it because the sugar and junk food industries lobby the government. And from Dr John Campbell in the UK
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 4, 2020 12:57:28 GMT -6
You're very correct in that alot of people who needed to be served by hospitals weren't...but it happened in a very backwards way. Hospitals like my own stopped all non-emergent surgeries and procedures in anticipation of a huge surge that didn't come. It wasn't physical lack of beds or staff. We stopped that policy weeks ago but things still haven't picked up to where they used to be pre-covid. Our ICU's have a pretty normal (busy) census, but the rest of the hospital is still slow. We're laying people off slowly, cutting shifts and people are taking pay cuts. Unfortunately, if you wait before preparing for a surge until it begins you'll be too late and the resulting deaths will really trash the economy. Well Bob your not wrong, but July is the one month you don’t want to be anywhere near a hospital! July first is when all the residents and fellows start ( nothing like having 2 first years trying to starting a line in your neck). You will see more and transfers of both Covid and non Covid patients to suburban hospitals ( as they are doing in Houston). Also remember when you see hospital or ICU capacity numbers they should always be published with an asterisks and explanation if that is based on beds or staffing. A bigger worry might be the PPE burn rate in CA, AZ and TX. When NY was going through it pretty much everybody else across the country was shut down so the PPE and drugs ect were not being used as much outside of NY, now the rest of the country is getting back to normal except every hospital employee is using PPE. |
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 4, 2020 13:39:57 GMT -6
That's not at all what I read into it.
I read it as telling all us "old folks" to shut up and die, we're not worth anything anyway - and I STRENUOUSLY object to it.
And I also object to what you just posted, too. I strikes me as being very "foodist" in a particular hippie/faddist way. "spent decades gobbling every fatty, sugary, fried butter blob they could get their greasy, tobacco stained flippers on, and then demanded to be sent to the front of the line for treatment when they ran into health issues."
Are you kidding? Because that just pisses me off.
I thought you were kidding at first, but now I realize you're serious. Wow. You either need medication, or to get off of it. Nobody said old people should die. In fact, I said that we should teach younger generations to take better care of themselves so they live longer without the Herculean amounts of drugs, medical care and money it currently takes to keep people alive, albeit essentially suffering with their afflictions. You read what your paranoid mind wanted to see. Nothing more. "So they live longer without the Herculean amounts of drugs, medical care and money it currently takes to keep people alive, albeit essentially suffering with their afflictions."
Without the drugs it takes to keep them alive.
Right.
Live longer without the drugs that keep them alive.
You're insane.
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 4, 2020 14:04:05 GMT -6
I thought you were kidding at first, but now I realize you're serious. Wow. You either need medication, or to get off of it. Nobody said old people should die. In fact, I said that we should teach younger generations to take better care of themselves so they live longer without the Herculean amounts of drugs, medical care and money it currently takes to keep people alive, albeit essentially suffering with their afflictions. You read what your paranoid mind wanted to see. Nothing more. I find it fucking hilarious that he thought he was being deliberately singled out. Deliberately singled out?
HELL, NO!
He was "singling out" an entire older generation.
He was also making a sweeping generalization about old people all being fat and unhealthy, which is not true.
It's all propaganda. I know more younger people who are fat than older people. The one couple who I (was) in contact with who died from Covid were not fat, but they were old.
He made a nasty, ageist statement and is trying to laugh it off as a joke.
Sorry, that boat does not float.
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 4, 2020 14:25:55 GMT -6
Guys, you are talking about changing the rules and treat people in hospital not after the seriousness of their conditions, but worse depending on their everyday lifestyle, if they are poor (healthy food IS more expensive in the US), and IMHO after your own moral ideas. To my mind came words like social darwinism, bad triage, inhuman and lack of empathy. Call me paranoid ... but I take my medication every day. No. I already said that's not what I said. I said teach people to be more healthy so they live better lives when they're older and cut down our out of control healthcare costs and high mortality rate from preventable diseases. Maybe you don't understand what it's like here, but there is very little health education about diet here, and part of that is the myth of eating healthy being expensive. Too much marketing junk foods and unhealthy behavior and not enough education to offset it because the sugar and junk food industries lobby the government. Maybe you should be more careful about what you say and the context in which you say it.
I don't eat "unhealthy", but I also don't fall over myself for the latest food faddist diets, etc.
And yet this "guy", who has never met me, makes assumptions about me and everyone else in my age bracket.
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. How would you even know if you had a fever there? LOL)
