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Post by bgrotto on Jan 30, 2022 18:35:51 GMT -6
Peter McCullough was on like a month ago claiming the pandemic was planned, that previously-infected people are immune permanently, and doing the same tired BS routine claiming VAERS is proof of thousands of vaccine deaths. That's not a disagreement. That is good ol' fashioned misinformation. If you had listened to both episodes you'd know that Dr. McCullough had Dr. Malone pass on the info that he had changed his stance on permanent immunity once omicron entered the picture. Dr. McCullough has treated thousands of Covid patients, he's earned a seat at the table. Disagree with him...fine...but silence him, or Dr. Malone, or Joe...no...not gonna happen. I think it's important to note that JRE used to be on Apple Podcasts, Youtube, Spotify, etc all at the same time... He went exclusive with Spotify in 2020. So, his show isn't nearly as available as it used to be, yet his listeners have gone through the roof. You don't have to like it, I'm just telling you every time you say "misinformation" it becomes less and less meaningful. People are flocking to these episodes for a reason and this may be shocking to you but the idea that the pandemic was not of natural origin and at least to some extent intentional and used for political gain is not such an unbelievable idea to A LOT of people. I'm not touching VAERS again haha..but if you look at it and still see NOTHING then once again that is a level of faith and trust I'll never understand. I hear you and appreciate your point of view, but none of that changes the fact that there is, in fact, misinformation being shared on Rogan's show. The criticisms about that are justified, and your dismissal that those criticisms will simply fall on deaf ears is, frankly, a perhaps-unwitting indictment of the sad state of a very particular segment of americans. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 30, 2022 18:37:34 GMT -6
What some of us are trying to point out is that you can't just call things you disagree with "misinformation." Peter McCullough was on like a month ago claiming the pandemic was planned, that previously-infected people are immune permanently, and doing the same tired BS routine claiming VAERS is proof of thousands of vaccine deaths. That's not a disagreement. That is good ol' fashioned misinformation. Then don’t listen |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 30, 2022 18:39:42 GMT -6
If you had listened to both episodes you'd know that Dr. McCullough had Dr. Malone pass on the info that he had changed his stance on permanent immunity once omicron entered the picture. Dr. McCullough has treated thousands of Covid patients, he's earned a seat at the table. Disagree with him...fine...but silence him, or Dr. Malone, or Joe...no...not gonna happen. I think it's important to note that JRE used to be on Apple Podcasts, Youtube, Spotify, etc all at the same time... He went exclusive with Spotify in 2020. So, his show isn't nearly as available as it used to be, yet his listeners have gone through the roof. You don't have to like it, I'm just telling you every time you say "misinformation" it becomes less and less meaningful. People are flocking to these episodes for a reason and this may be shocking to you but the idea that the pandemic was not of natural origin and at least to some extent intentional and used for political gain is not such an unbelievable idea to A LOT of people. I'm not touching VAERS again haha..but if you look at it and still see NOTHING then once again that is a level of faith and trust I'll never understand. I hear you and appreciate your point of view, but none of that changes the fact that there is, in fact, misinformation being shared on Rogan's show. The criticisms about that are justified, and your dismissal that those criticisms will simply fall on deaf ears is, frankly, a perhaps-unwitting indictment of the sad state of a very particular segment of americans. I hear the President spewing misinformation every day. |
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Post by drbill on Jan 30, 2022 18:44:21 GMT -6
I hear you and appreciate your point of view, but none of that changes the fact that there is, in fact, misinformation being shared on Rogan's show. The criticisms about that are justified, and your dismissal that those criticisms will simply fall on deaf ears is, frankly, a perhaps-unwitting indictment of the sad state of a very particular segment of americans. Benny - respectfully - so what? To "protect" the world from "misinformation" (which is active and ongoing - especially right now) would mean shooting a hole the size of Kansas thru the first amendment of our Constitution. Is it worth our literal freedoms to make sure that no one hears anything but "perfect truth"? And who decides what "perfect truth" is? Especially, as history shows, science often turns and evolves with time - often contradicting itself down the road? It's a slippery slope at best, and I don't want that job, and I don't want anyone I know doing that job. I vote for freedom of speech. <<thumbsup>> |
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Post by drbill on Jan 30, 2022 18:45:21 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 30, 2022 18:55:10 GMT -6
That wasn’t political, it was factual. A look at his remarks in a CNN town hall: “If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in the IC unit, and you’re not going to die.” — town hall. “You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.” — town hall. When will that be labeled as misinformation? |
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Post by bgrotto on Jan 30, 2022 18:59:55 GMT -6
Peter McCullough was on like a month ago claiming the pandemic was planned, that previously-infected people are immune permanently, and doing the same tired BS routine claiming VAERS is proof of thousands of vaccine deaths. That's not a disagreement. That is good ol' fashioned misinformation. Then don’t listen That's got nothing to do with the point I was responding to. Josh suggested that the folks critical of Rogan are mischaracterizing a difference of opinion as misinformation. I was pointing out that there are ample examples of *actual* misinformation on Rogan's show, making those folks' criticisms justified. |
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Post by bgrotto on Jan 30, 2022 19:02:25 GMT -6
I hear you and appreciate your point of view, but none of that changes the fact that there is, in fact, misinformation being shared on Rogan's show. The criticisms about that are justified, and your dismissal that those criticisms will simply fall on deaf ears is, frankly, a perhaps-unwitting indictment of the sad state of a very particular segment of americans. Benny - respectfully - so what? To "protect" the world from "misinformation" (which is active and ongoing - especially right now) would mean shooting a hole the size of Kansas thru the first amendment of our Constitution. Is it worth our literal freedoms to make sure that no one hears anything but "perfect truth"? And who decides what "perfect truth" is? Especially, as history shows, science often turns and evolves with time - often contradicting itself down the road? It's a slippery slope at best, and I don't want that job, and I don't want anyone I know doing that job. I vote for freedom of speech. <<thumbsup>> As I just posted above, I was responding to Josh's assertion that what was taking place was simply folks mischaracterizing a difference of opinion as misinformation. In fact, there are plenty of demonstrable examples of misinformation on Rogan's show. And just to be clear, you'll not find me advocating for Rogan to be silenced. But you WILL find me defending Neil Young's decision to voice his opposition. Because I like that snazzy first amendment we got  |
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Post by bgrotto on Jan 30, 2022 19:08:21 GMT -6
That wasn’t political, it was factual. A look at his remarks in a CNN town hall: “If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in the IC unit, and you’re not going to die.” — town hall. “You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.” — town hall. When will that be labeled as misinformation? AP fact-checked that almost immediately and plenty of outlets reported on their findings. The formatting of your quotes even matches the fact-checking article itself...it's entirely possible you did the copy-paste from the very bit of journalism that DID do what you're asking! |
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Post by seawell on Jan 30, 2022 19:11:56 GMT -6
I hear you and appreciate your point of view, but none of that changes the fact that there is, in fact, misinformation being shared on Rogan's show. The criticisms about that are justified, and your dismissal that those criticisms will simply fall on deaf ears is, frankly, a perhaps-unwitting indictment of the sad state of a very particular segment of americans. I hear the President spewing misinformation every day. Speaking of that, how many days of the "winter of severe illness and death for the unvaccinated" are left cause I'm still here...just wondering how much time I have left. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 30, 2022 19:12:38 GMT -6
That wasn’t political, it was factual. A look at his remarks in a CNN town hall: “If you’re vaccinated, you’re not going to be hospitalized, you’re not going to be in the IC unit, and you’re not going to die.” — town hall. “You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.” — town hall. When will that be labeled as misinformation? AP fact-checked that almost immediately and plenty of outlets reported on their findings. The formatting of your quotes even matches the fact-checking article itself...it's entirely possible you did the copy-paste from the very bit of journalism that DID do what you're asking! He’s said it on multiple occasions after that too. There is PLENTY of misinformation about half the country being stated by this administration, but No clamoring from mainstream media to correct it. |
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Post by bgrotto on Jan 30, 2022 19:14:39 GMT -6
AP fact-checked that almost immediately and plenty of outlets reported on their findings. The formatting of your quotes even matches the fact-checking article itself...it's entirely possible you did the copy-paste from the very bit of journalism that DID do what you're asking! He’s said it on multiple occasions after that too. There is PLENTY of misinformation about half the country being stated by this administration, but No clamoring from mainstream media to correct it. Isn't AP about as 'mainstream media' as it gets? |
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Post by bgrotto on Jan 30, 2022 19:18:56 GMT -6
I hear the President spewing misinformation every day. Speaking of that, how many days of the "winter of severe illness and death for the unvaccinated" are left cause I'm still here...just wondering how much time I have left. 2k dead from Covid per day. That's....kinda severe. |
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Post by seawell on Jan 30, 2022 19:21:49 GMT -6
Benny - respectfully - so what? To "protect" the world from "misinformation" (which is active and ongoing - especially right now) would mean shooting a hole the size of Kansas thru the first amendment of our Constitution. Is it worth our literal freedoms to make sure that no one hears anything but "perfect truth"? And who decides what "perfect truth" is? Especially, as history shows, science often turns and evolves with time - often contradicting itself down the road? It's a slippery slope at best, and I don't want that job, and I don't want anyone I know doing that job. I vote for freedom of speech. <<thumbsup>> As I just posted above, I was responding to Josh's assertion that what was taking place was simply folks mischaracterizing a difference of opinion as misinformation. In fact, there are plenty of demonstrable examples of misinformation on Rogan's show. And just to be clear, you'll not find me advocating for Rogan to be silenced. But you WILL find me defending Neil Young's decision to voice his opposition. Because I like that snazzy first amendment we got  I stand by what I said. Of the 3 examples of misinformation you gave, the first one he corrected himself, and as far as the virus origin/intent and VAERS go... I don't think you or anyone else can definitively debunk those. You may be able to, to the level of satisfaction your own belief or disbelief in something but that doesn't mean it does it for me or millions of others. So how can you say it's misinformation? I continue to say that the people that have put forth those ideas have earned a right to have a voice in the conversation. If they get it wrong, they get it wrong but I want them involved because the other side of the debate seem to all being saying the same thing with no dissent and they've gotten a so much wrong over the past 2 years I've lost count. |
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Post by drbill on Jan 30, 2022 19:23:58 GMT -6
Speaking of that, how many days of the "winter of severe illness and death for the unvaccinated" are left cause I'm still here...just wondering how much time I have left. 2k dead from Covid per day. That's....kinda severe. From or with? Factually that is. I'm not sure. All I hear is "from". Then later "with". Seems that that should get straightened out, no? Even CNN is now saying "with" is not the same as "from". |
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Post by seawell on Jan 30, 2022 19:28:15 GMT -6
Speaking of that, how many days of the "winter of severe illness and death for the unvaccinated" are left cause I'm still here...just wondering how much time I have left. 2k dead from Covid per day. That's....kinda severe. None of which I'm making light of. Sorry, but people like myself are a little tired of being unnecessarily singled out. |
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Post by bgrotto on Jan 30, 2022 19:38:03 GMT -6
2k dead from Covid per day. That's....kinda severe. Sorry, but people like myself are a little tired of being unnecessarily singled out. Think about how tired socialists like me must feel🤣 |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 30, 2022 19:43:13 GMT -6
Speaking of that, how many days of the "winter of severe illness and death for the unvaccinated" are left cause I'm still here...just wondering how much time I have left. 2k dead from Covid per day. That's....kinda severe. 2k people aren’t dying OF Covid every day. How many co-morbidities did each have. What were the ages? Misinformation? |
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Post by seawell on Jan 30, 2022 19:45:39 GMT -6
Sorry, but people like myself are a little tired of being unnecessarily singled out. Think about how tired socialists like me must feel🤣 My apologies comrade 🤣. Seriously though..I know if we were all sitting down over a beer we’d hash this out in half an hour and move on to having a jam session…instead we’re stuck arguing on end for months if not years…it sucks 😫 |
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Post by seawell on Jan 30, 2022 19:46:42 GMT -6
2k dead from Covid per day. That's....kinda severe. From or with? Factually that is. I'm not sure. All I hear is "from". Then later "with". Seems that that should get straightened out, no? Even CNN is now saying "with" is not the same as "from". ☝🏻This is a perfect example of yesterday’s misinformation being today’s generally accepted fact. |
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Post by ragan on Jan 30, 2022 23:46:23 GMT -6
The doc has links in it, FWIW, some of which go into some detail about Malone’s claims. I’m not trying to vouch for them, cause I haven’t looked into them very extensively, though I have read a good bit about Malone and his claims, just pointing out that there are more specifics there than just the body of the letter. As for “widely reported”, I dunno, I guess that’s on whatever news outlets you’re talking about. The letter itself is pretty clear. “We are a coalition of scientists, medical professionals, professors, and science communicators spanning a wide range of fields…” Thanks! I'm aware and have checked them out. They are full of things like this: "and lied that getting the coronavirus vaccine is not effective in preventing the disease...." umm...that one didn't age too well. Also..."falsely asserted that children do not need to get a COVID-19 vaccine." It's completely reasonable to argue that most children may not and maybe even should not get vaccinated. A lot of it reads like an overzealous hall monitor report to the point where it is hard to take very seriously. Anyway, my main point is that covid is very much an ongoing discussion and a lot of people want to hear multiple sides of this. Not because we're just waking up everyday with some weird appetite for conspiracy theories or dissenting opinions. I would imagine a lot of people have arrived at this place like I did, because of the botched job(aka noble lies) that Fauci, Walensky, 45 and 46 etc.. have done over the past 2 years. The writers of that letter pointed out the 11 million average listeners to JRE but the episodes with Dr. Malone and Dr. McCullough were more in the 30-50 million range. For anyone that's still all in on the mainstream covid narrative then I actually admire you in a strange way. I think it takes a level of faith and trust that I don't have. It's not my intention to try and minimize the people that signed that letter, I respect them for standing for what they believe is right. My point is that it was reported to be 270 doctors and it wasn't, that's all. I mean a "science communicator" is about the most jazzed up way of saying "podcaster" that I've ever seen haha. Also, why should I value anyone on this list over the doctors Rogan has had on as guests? How many of them have treated covid patients? Do they have a 94% rate of keeping hospitalized covid patients alive like Dr. Kory and his collegues at the FLCCC have? If they do, I'd love to hear about it. If they disagree with the use of ivermectin, etc.. that Kory uses, what do they use instead? In other words don't insult us by calling something horse dewormer if you have nothing else to offer in it's place. To make a long story short, I'm of the opinion that as soon as it was apparent that vaccines don't stop transmission then all the mandates should have been over. Think about it, when you go to a concert, restaurant, job, etc... where it's either vaccine card or a negative test, then the only people there that can have covid and spread it are vaccinated people. It makes no sense to carry on this way. They are also full of things like this: "Malone references a study where lipid nanoparticles were detected in ovaries of rats. He makes an unfounded connection between menstrual irregularities and lipids in the vaccine as a result. He fails to mention that this study detected less than 0.1% of the total lipids administered in rat ovaries 48 hours after vaccination. That is not a significant accumulation of lipids at all. Menstrual changes have been reported after both mRNA and adenovirus vaccines. Any potential link is likely to be a result of the immune response to vaccination rather than a specific vaccine ingredient. Our uterus is part of our immune system. Anything that affects our immune response (stress of a pandemic, vaccination, COVID-19 itself) can impact menstrual cycles" And this: "Malone claims that because the spike protein of the virus and mRNA vaccines are the same (except for two amino acids), the side effects of them are the same. He fails to mention that the virus itself contains numerous other genes and proteins (a total of 29 proteins) including the spike protein that enable the virus to infect us, reproduce, cause damage to our bodies and cells, and potentially kill us. The spike protein made from the vaccine does not have the additional components that can lead to the type of damage infection with SARS-CoV-2 can." I'm not gonna pretend to be qualified to judge those claims/counter claims, I'm just pointing out that the members of the scientific community objecting to Malone's high profile media stands have more specificity in their complaint than you're giving them credit for. We have a big mess of a thread full of stuff pertaining to Dr. Kory and his claims, so I'm not gonna go there. Malone is a powerful voice for the vaccine-averse cause, though, to be sure. He's extremely credentialed and very qualified by anyone's measure. There's a thing that happens with people sometimes, though, where they have a grievance with their peers and they sort of cash out their professional expertise for fame and attention (Weinstein is one that fits this profile). Note, I'm not claiming that I know that that's what Malone is doing, cause I can't really know that. But he has a grudge about the work he contributed to as a grad student that later led to mRNA development and he has been very vocal about his belief that he was "written out" of the history of mRNA vaccines (despite a couple of his papers still being cited in prominent, current mRNA research). He's also been willing to amplify faulty science. There was that Canadian study showing a really high rate of heart inflammation from the vaccines. It got uploaded to a pre-print server (a newish phenomenon where research gets quasi-published before peer review) and became a darling of the anti-vax crowd almost overnight. Malone promoted the study as proof of the harm vaccines can cause, but then the study got retracted because the math was way, way off. They had the total number of vaccine doses 25x lower than the data showed, resulting in a 25x higher rate of heart inflammation than was actually there. When the math error was pointed out, the studies' authors unanimously withdrew it, but Malone didn't take back any of it or even take down the posts he'd used to amplify it. That's a problem. A guy with his level of scientific training being willing to do that stuff is a red flag for me. So is his use of pseudoscience buzz terms like "mass-formation psychosis" (a fav riff of his during the Rogan interview) with no data behind them. A guy like Malone, when he was still doing research and not activism, would never have been ok with that. He has a real scientific background and stuff like that just wouldn't have flown. It reminds me of a guy like Richard Dawkins. Brilliant scientist who cashes in and makes a big name for himself in the non-scientific world by going way outside the bounds of his actual research. When people who are as experienced and credentialed as Malone stop participating in settings where the stuff they say will have to pass muster with people who know as much as they do about their field, and instead start going on Fox News and Joe Rogan, where they can say whatever they want to an audience who is primed up for the hot contrarian take, it tends to set off my B.S. detector. I mean, how is Rogan supposed to evaluate the stuff a guy like Malone is claiming? I get that it's exciting content and very good for business, but I'm not at all sold on the idea that its goal is to get at the truth. You could certainly interpret Malone's flight from the scientific community and toward the Joe Rogans of the world as him just being passionate about his political and professional views. Or you can interpret it as him being done with being a scientist and ready to be a media personality. Either way, he's taking big liberties with his reputation as an expert and has shown a willingness to bend or break the truth. If someone has already decided that Malone is some kind of scientific folk hero, maybe they can overlook that stuff. I can't. So, there are substantial reasons that guys like Malone or Kory aren't credible to me. Doesn't mean I think that everything they say is wrong, nor does it mean that I'm trying to deny the experience and knowledge of a guy like Malone, but it does mean that I don't have faith in them to be reliable witnesses. |
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Post by seawell on Jan 31, 2022 1:52:47 GMT -6
Thanks! I'm aware and have checked them out. They are full of things like this: "and lied that getting the coronavirus vaccine is not effective in preventing the disease...." umm...that one didn't age too well. Also..."falsely asserted that children do not need to get a COVID-19 vaccine." It's completely reasonable to argue that most children may not and maybe even should not get vaccinated. A lot of it reads like an overzealous hall monitor report to the point where it is hard to take very seriously. Anyway, my main point is that covid is very much an ongoing discussion and a lot of people want to hear multiple sides of this. Not because we're just waking up everyday with some weird appetite for conspiracy theories or dissenting opinions. I would imagine a lot of people have arrived at this place like I did, because of the botched job(aka noble lies) that Fauci, Walensky, 45 and 46 etc.. have done over the past 2 years. The writers of that letter pointed out the 11 million average listeners to JRE but the episodes with Dr. Malone and Dr. McCullough were more in the 30-50 million range. For anyone that's still all in on the mainstream covid narrative then I actually admire you in a strange way. I think it takes a level of faith and trust that I don't have. It's not my intention to try and minimize the people that signed that letter, I respect them for standing for what they believe is right. My point is that it was reported to be 270 doctors and it wasn't, that's all. I mean a "science communicator" is about the most jazzed up way of saying "podcaster" that I've ever seen haha. Also, why should I value anyone on this list over the doctors Rogan has had on as guests? How many of them have treated covid patients? Do they have a 94% rate of keeping hospitalized covid patients alive like Dr. Kory and his collegues at the FLCCC have? If they do, I'd love to hear about it. If they disagree with the use of ivermectin, etc.. that Kory uses, what do they use instead? In other words don't insult us by calling something horse dewormer if you have nothing else to offer in it's place. To make a long story short, I'm of the opinion that as soon as it was apparent that vaccines don't stop transmission then all the mandates should have been over. Think about it, when you go to a concert, restaurant, job, etc... where it's either vaccine card or a negative test, then the only people there that can have covid and spread it are vaccinated people. It makes no sense to carry on this way. They are also full of things like this: "Malone references a study where lipid nanoparticles were detected in ovaries of rats. He makes an unfounded connection between menstrual irregularities and lipids in the vaccine as a result. He fails to mention that this study detected less than 0.1% of the total lipids administered in rat ovaries 48 hours after vaccination. That is not a significant accumulation of lipids at all. Menstrual changes have been reported after both mRNA and adenovirus vaccines. Any potential link is likely to be a result of the immune response to vaccination rather than a specific vaccine ingredient. Our uterus is part of our immune system. Anything that affects our immune response (stress of a pandemic, vaccination, COVID-19 itself) can impact menstrual cycles" And this: "Malone claims that because the spike protein of the virus and mRNA vaccines are the same (except for two amino acids), the side effects of them are the same. He fails to mention that the virus itself contains numerous other genes and proteins (a total of 29 proteins) including the spike protein that enable the virus to infect us, reproduce, cause damage to our bodies and cells, and potentially kill us. The spike protein made from the vaccine does not have the additional components that can lead to the type of damage infection with SARS-CoV-2 can." I'm not gonna pretend to be qualified to judge those claims/counter claims, I'm just pointing out that the members of the scientific community objecting to Malone's high profile media stands have more specificity in their complaint than you're giving them credit for. We have a big mess of a thread full of stuff pertaining to Dr. Kory and his claims, so I'm not gonna go there. Malone is a powerful voice for the vaccine-averse cause, though, to be sure. He's extremely credentialed and very qualified by anyone's measure. There's a thing that happens with people sometimes, though, where they have a grievance with their peers and they sort of cash out their professional expertise for fame and attention (Weinstein is one that fits this profile). Note, I'm not claiming that I know that that's what Malone is doing, cause I can't really know that. But he has a grudge about the work he contributed to as a grad student that later led to mRNA development and he has been very vocal about his belief that he was "written out" of the history of mRNA vaccines (despite a couple of his papers still being cited in prominent, current mRNA research). He's also been willing to amplify faulty science. There was that Canadian study showing a really high rate of heart inflammation from the vaccines. It got uploaded to a pre-print server (a newish phenomenon where research gets quasi-published before peer review) and became a darling of the anti-vax crowd almost overnight. Malone promoted the study as proof of the harm vaccines can cause, but then the study got retracted because the math was way, way off. They had the total number of vaccine doses 25x lower than the data showed, resulting in a 25x higher rate of heart inflammation than was actually there. When the math error was pointed out, the studies' authors unanimously withdrew it, but Malone didn't take back any of it or even take down the posts he'd used to amplify it. That's a problem. A guy with his level of scientific training being willing to do that stuff is a red flag for me. So is his use of pseudoscience buzz terms like "mass-formation psychosis" (a fav riff of his during the Rogan interview) with no data behind them. A guy like Malone, when he was still doing research and not activism, would never have been ok with that. He has a real scientific background and stuff like that just wouldn't have flown. It reminds me of a guy like Richard Dawkins. Brilliant scientist who cashes in and makes a big name for himself in the non-scientific world by going way outside the bounds of his actual research. When people who are as experienced and credentialed as Malone stop participating in settings where the stuff they say will have to pass muster with people who know as much as they do about their field, and instead start going on Fox News and Joe Rogan, where they can say whatever they want to an audience who is primed up for the hot contrarian take, it tends to set off my B.S. detector. I mean, how is Rogan supposed to evaluate the stuff a guy like Malone is claiming? I don't blame him for just going "wow...." the whole time. What else is he supposed to say? I get that it's exciting content and very good for business, but I'm not at all sold on the idea that its goal is to get at the truth. You could certainly interpret Malone's flight from the scientific community and toward the Joe Rogans of the world as him just being passionate about his political and professional views. Or you can interpret it as him being done with being a scientist and ready to be a media personality. Either way, he's taking big liberties with his reputation as an expert and has shown a willingness to bend or break the truth. If someone has already decided that Malone is some kind of scientific folk hero, maybe they can overlook that stuff. I can't. So, there are substantial reasons that guys like Malone or Kory aren't credible to me. Doesn't mean I think that everything they say is wrong, nor does it mean that I'm trying to deny the experience and knowledge of a guy like Malone, but it does mean that I don't have faith in them to be reliable witnesses. I’ll try to get into the specifics of your examples sometime later but one could also look at a Malone, Weinstein, etc…and say they have risked everything for what they believe. They believe they see certain things heading in the wrong direction and they feel a responsibility to take a stand. Isn’t that what we’re celebrating Neil Young for? When we talk about “medical professionals” that signed the letter of concern about JRE we have to keep in mind that his guests are also medical professionals. It’s not like he’s had a bunch of spiritual healers on there. Kory & McCollough both have stated their driving force is because they were tired of watching people die of covid with no treatment. They were in the trenches from day one & I believe them. Why would they both testify before congress under penalty of perjury if they were just making up a bunch of stuff to shift careers and sell out? Why are they still treating covid patients to this day if they don’t genuinely care? The funny thing is, the opinions that have been formed about the above mentioned gentlemen have been formed by people on this forum that I’d bet any amount of money have not taken the time to watch a single full episode of any of them on JRE. In fact, I'd bet the same that Neil Young hasn't either. So, everyone is welcome to continue to try and cast them as sell outs or frauds but I’m just as politely as I can muster trying to point out that the majority of people aren’t buying it anymore. There was a time(on the covid thread)…and in society in general…where people could just say “conspiracy theorist” or “fraud” or “misinformation” or “that source is no good” and the discussion would be shut down. Those days are over. 2 years into this and people don’t have the patience any longer to sit around & wait for everything to be randomize controlled double blind placeboed. They want to know why next to nothing makes sense. Why does my kid have to wear a mask 8 hours a day at school when my governor keeps getting caught maskless at events I’m not allowed to be at? Why did I get fired from my hospital for passing on this vaccine when my covid positive co-worker can now keep treating patients? Why did you tell me masks don’t work, now I have to wear one walking in the restaurant…sit down to eat, take it off for an hour…then put it back on to walk out. I could go on and on and on. Pardon my french but you can only serve people chicken shit while telling them it’s chicken salad for so long. We are done. I still contend that a sincere discussion on this particular thread has to start with listening to at least Malone & McCullough on JRE(because that is what NY was complaining about). Otherwise, you’re just reading second hand opinions and casting judgment on these guys. The good news is you can listen to somewhere between 4-6 hours straight from the horse's mouth. Not interested? Fine, but then don’t be upset if I’m not taking your criticisms of them too seriously. If you do take the time to listen, I bet you’ll find a lot you agree with and some you don’t and that’s fine, I feel the same! After listening though, ask yourself sincerely, is this a discussion that should not be allowed to happen at all? That’s really the debate here, not whether or not any of these guys have gotten something wrong, but should this speech be allowed or not? You mentioned the term “anti-vax” so I have to ask, what does that even mean? Myself for instance, I’ve had every vaccine my whole life but decided to pass on this one only, am I anti-vax? That’s another term that doesn’t make sense to me. How can one be anti-vax if they only have a concern about 1 vaccine? Ok I’m hungry…bye for now 😁 |
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Post by seawell on Jan 31, 2022 2:45:15 GMT -6
Speaking of straight from the horse's mouth...
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jan 31, 2022 3:18:53 GMT -6
NY can go back to his own exclusive stream service...
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Post by Ward on Jan 31, 2022 6:55:31 GMT -6
Keep on locking down the free world - Neil Young
Did I get that wrong? As wrong as Neil Young's handlers?
Neil Young has been identified as suffering from dementia, Louis Bodies which is the worse there is . . . my dad is Neil's age and going through the horrible disease. Has no idea what year it is most of the time. Everything is a jumble in his head.
My sister has power of attorney, and others take care of him.
So if that is accurate, and indications are such, then these are not his decision but people acting in his name and doing what they think he would like to do, maybe . . . but most likely, taking advantage of a senile old coot, bless his heart. And those people would likely include Darryl Hannah and HipGnosis - who actually owns all said music at the heart of the ultimatum/threat/extortion attempt.
That is a mortal sin.
As for Joni Mitchell. Now there's someone with integrity. No threats, ultimatums or anything else. Just did what she believed in and acted dignified.
Your observations may vary, as is the case.
Do vaccines work? Yes! Do we have a Covid vaccine yet? No!
Do we want one? Yes! Will we get one? Highly freaking doubtful. Where's the money for Pfizer et al in that?
P.S. Joe Rogan is a repulsive blowhard sometimes but even through all his bloviating, he can still get to the heart of the issue with guests who actually know their stuff.
I blame all this on Sun-Tzu
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