kbb
Junior Member
Posts: 82
|
Post by kbb on Feb 4, 2024 14:25:59 GMT -6
Howdy,
I've searched some, but am so far unable to find anything definitive.
In short: I'm trying out a Flea 49, and so far really love a lot about it - especially the low mid presence, and that's what I've been searching for in a vocal mic (for myself). One curious thing is that the mic almost seems gently high passed. There are still lows for sure, and it's got enough heft around 80-100hz, but I'm used to hearing more way down low...it's been there in the U47 style mics I've tried out. I also use a lot of ribbons where it's pronounced, so maybe my expectations are mis-calibrated.
Anyhoo, I'm just wondering from those familiar with M49 if that's consistent with the design, or if the mic might be broken.
Thanks!
|
|
|
|
Post by unit7 on Feb 4, 2024 14:44:21 GMT -6
I've had two Flea 49s for 15 years and love them. Doesn't fit all voices of course but is my goto for female jazz vocalists. I think I agree about the low end, but my feeling is that it's fairly neutral. From what I've learned the 49/50 was designed for orchestral recordings so the idea was to keep it neutral/unhyped, so perhaps (hopefully) that's what you're hearing..
|
|
|
|
Post by dvdpaulin on Feb 4, 2024 15:37:58 GMT -6
I don’t know much about the Flea 49, but I do know that there were a few different variations when Neumann was making the M49. I believe the later versions had a built in high pass filter (don’t know which one this started with though, B?)
When we bought the new M49V it shipped with the HPF switch on, I put it up next to our original one and heard a difference in the low end so I opened it up and turned off the HP and now they sound basically identical.
All that to say, if the Flea is based on a later version of the M49 that had that filter built into the circuit, that could explain what you’re hearing. They may also be able to tell you if there’s a way to bypass/remove it! Again, I don’t know much about theirs though.
|
|
|
|
Post by smashlord on Feb 4, 2024 15:49:48 GMT -6
I always felt the M49 had a slight midrange emphasis compared to a U47, so what you describe seems about right. FWIW, when shooting the two of them out, I felt on a busy rock mix with crunchy guitars, a U47 was almost too big sounding (too much lowend) to sit above the mix, where the M49 always seem to sit right.
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Feb 4, 2024 18:40:58 GMT -6
I know the 47/48/49 thing can vary as to which is "what's best" on a given specific Singer. Male or female.  FWIW 47/48 are better on me. I think... So far. Chris |
|
kbb
Junior Member
Posts: 82
|
Post by kbb on Feb 4, 2024 20:21:19 GMT -6
I always felt the M49 had a slight midrange emphasis compared to a U47, so what you describe seems about right. FWIW, when shooting the two of them out, I felt on a busy rock mix with crunchy guitars, a U47 was almost too big sounding (too much lowend) to sit above the mix, where the M49 always seem to sit right. This resonates (zing!)...I've spent most of the last year singing into either an R44 or a Coles 4038. I'm remembering that when I had a Flea 47, I wanted for more low end girth too. And, with the Flea 49's extra warmth you mentionedd, I'm pretty sure I'm just erring on thinking there's a problem because the very low end isn't "keeping up" with that in equal measure. I think I'm going to stop overthinking it. I've been singing into a U87ai lately, and the 49's low end is pretty comparable, if not a bit bigger. The 49 is pretty much exactly what I wanted - a mid-forward mic, without the Flea 47's high mid bump, that has the dark soul of a tube mic. The 49 is exactly all of those things to me so far, and if there's any "high passing" going on, it's only saving me from having to do it in mixing. Like you experienced, it's sitting "just right"...those low mids are so musical and present (in their way) that it handily pushes through a mix. It really is a beautiful and "rich" sounding mic, too...10x the vibe of the U87ai, that's for sure. Thanks all! |
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Feb 4, 2024 20:27:17 GMT -6
The only mic that I would sell almost anything to get is Capitol's M249. Sigh.....
The best mic I've ever used.
|
|
kbb
Junior Member
Posts: 82
|
Post by kbb on Feb 4, 2024 21:03:18 GMT -6
The only mic that I would sell almost anything to get is Capitol's M249. Sigh..... The best mic I've ever used. Oh!...is there a vocal performance that you think of that's demonstrative of its sound? |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Feb 4, 2024 22:08:40 GMT -6
Cardi B? Jessica Simpson? T-Pain? ANY of the GREATS Dr. Bill?  Chris |
|
|
|
Post by ab101 on Feb 5, 2024 0:09:14 GMT -6
Billie Holiday.
|
|
kbb
Junior Member
Posts: 82
|
Post by kbb on Feb 5, 2024 0:28:56 GMT -6
|
|
kbb
Junior Member
Posts: 82
|
Post by kbb on Feb 5, 2024 0:29:49 GMT -6
Cardi B? Jessica Simpson? T-Pain? ANY of the GREATS Dr. Bill? Chris Wait, T Pain??? lol |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2024 0:38:13 GMT -6
Cardi B? Jessica Simpson? T-Pain? ANY of the GREATS Dr. Bill? Chris Wait, T Pain??? lol Yeah, if you haven't noticed by now Chris ain't exactly the most serious person. Neither am I so..
Vanilla Ice Ice Cube Freezer Artic Frozen?
I don't think Freezer or Arctic are actually well known "artists" and the third seems to be a movie. Who'd have thunk it? I think I just want an ice cream.. Yeah, that's it.
|
|
|
|
Post by paulcheeba on Feb 5, 2024 0:53:10 GMT -6
I’m not a fan of the standard F7 Flea capsules and changed all 4 in mine for Neumann and Beesneez which made them project so much better.
|
|
kbb
Junior Member
Posts: 82
|
Post by kbb on Feb 5, 2024 1:33:36 GMT -6
I’m not a fan of the standard F7 Flea capsules and changed all 4 in mine for Neumann and Beesneez which made them project so much better. Very interesting! I noticed a Flea K47 capsule for sale on Reverb...that individual had swapped in a Thiersch M7. |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Feb 5, 2024 2:48:43 GMT -6
My Uncle Harry (who saw Ella and Lady Day in their Prime!) Told me more than once, that one side of an LP "Ella". And the other side "Billie"... Was a perfect record for him. Chris P.S. Uncle Harry was good friends with Buddy Rich. And as I've mentioned before-Mickey Cohen! |
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Feb 5, 2024 2:53:26 GMT -6
Finding out that Klaus fine tuned Steve Perry's 49 was cool. I think of singers like Tony Bennett and Johnny Mathis... As classic Male Neumann 49 Vocalists. Chris P.S. Actually like Carly Simon, "I haven't got time for T-Pain". |
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Feb 5, 2024 7:39:35 GMT -6
My understanding is the original M49 (M49A) had the roll off, the M49B did not or had the option to be purchased without it, and the M49C had it again, and that along with the change in how the tube is biased made it a bit more open still. I have heard experts who know better than me concur with this and heard others refute it. When Neumann release their M49V, one of the original articles about it said they were using the M49C circuitry, tuned to sound like the M49A, with the option to not have the roll off like the M49B. I don't have the link to the articles and would have to go back and look for it, but I love this mic and it stuck with me.
I have (2) FleA 49s. Both of mine have are M49C versions and have FleA's F47 (K47) capsule. I personally preferred the F47 to the F7 in the FleA 49. I do like their F7 in the FleA 47. I know some people feel its a touch dark, but it sounds a ton like one of the U47s I've worked with which had an original M7.
Funny enough, one of my FleA 49s has the rolled off low end thing, and the other doesn't. Otherwise their frequency response is very close from the top end until about 100 Hz. I had asked Ivan about it. He confirmed what the company build notes said, and told me if I took it apart and took some photos he would confirm whether or not the one had the built in roll off. He also offered to match them if I sent them to him. I never did get around to it though. I wish I had made my way back to Barbershop Studios in NJ before I moved. I would have loved to have heard both of them next to their M49C, which has to be one of the most amazing mics I've ever heard my voice through. For what it's worth, I really like the rolled off one. It's become my primary vocal mic, especially for the operatic stuff. The second one I think works better for the crooning stuff.
Here are a couple of clips of a Broadway tune. I did these back to back, and not simultaneously. The signal chain is an AMS Neve 1073 into my Audioscape Opto into my Avid Carbon.
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Feb 5, 2024 8:23:57 GMT -6
U47 definitely has a lot of low end. Almost too much in a lot of cases.
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Feb 5, 2024 12:12:22 GMT -6
Sure helped Mike Love on the Low Baritone parts... Doing the Beach Boys Harmonies/Call and Response parts. Chris |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107 
Member is Online
|
Post by ericn on Feb 5, 2024 13:41:01 GMT -6
U47 definitely has a lot of low end. Almost too much in a lot of cases. You will also notice that in the grand old days the singer wasn’t eating the mic so the robust LF and proximity effect were not as big a deal. |
|
|
|
Post by unit7 on Feb 5, 2024 14:12:47 GMT -6
This resonates (zing!)... If you hear a "zing" when you tap gently on the mic (do it gently with a finger nail with cans/volume cranked) something is probably wrong, could be the tube |
|
kbb
Junior Member
Posts: 82
|
Post by kbb on Feb 5, 2024 23:47:57 GMT -6
Finding out that Klaus fine tuned Steve Perry's 49 was cool. I think of singers like Tony Bennett and Johnny Mathis... As classic Male Neumann 49 Vocalists. Chris P.S. Actually like Carly Simon, "I haven't got time for T-Pain". T-Pain??? :-) |
|
kbb
Junior Member
Posts: 82
|
Post by kbb on Feb 6, 2024 0:19:28 GMT -6
....My understanding is the original M49 (M49A) had the roll off, the M49B did not or had the option to be purchased without it, and the M49C had it again, and that along with the change in how the tube is biased made it a bit more open still. I have heard experts who know better than me concur with this and heard others refute it. When Neumann release their M49V, one of the original articles about it said they were using the M49C circuitry, tuned to sound like the M49A, with the option to not have the roll off like the M49B.
...I personally preferred the F47 to the F7 in the FleA 49. I do like their F7 in the FleA 47. I know some people feel its a touch dark, but it sounds a ton like one of the U47s I've worked with which had an original M7.
...their frequency response is very close from the top end until about 100 Hz. I had asked Ivan about it. He confirmed what the company build notes said, and told me if I took it apart and took some photos he would confirm whether or not the one had the built in roll off. He also offered to match them if I sent them to him...
....I really like the rolled off one. It's become my primary vocal mic, especially for the operatic stuff. The second one I think works better for the crooning stuff.
Thanks so much for all that info! Digging around online, I stumbled into one of your tube testers videos comparing the capsules in Flea 47/48's, and I was really surprised at the difference between the capsules...like you (and thanks to you!), I much preferred the M7 in those mics. The K47 was "authoritative" to be sure, but the M7 was instant nostalgia. It unfortunately made me think I need one of those some day again. I'm going to email Ivan now that you mention it just to make sure that what I'm hearing jives with the design, but I'd bet it does. I love the mic, and I doubt I'd undo that filter now that I've used it some. I'm also glad you mentioned 100hz, that's the number I've come up with in a way...where I hear the filtering is just below that...it seems like between 60-100hz is where I hear that filter doing more than I expected. Again, thanks for all the pertinent info and also for taking time out to share sounds and reviews. They've come in really handy! |
|
|
|
Post by Vincent R. on Feb 6, 2024 6:41:11 GMT -6
....My understanding is the original M49 (M49A) had the roll off, the M49B did not or had the option to be purchased without it, and the M49C had it again, and that along with the change in how the tube is biased made it a bit more open still. I have heard experts who know better than me concur with this and heard others refute it. When Neumann release their M49V, one of the original articles about it said they were using the M49C circuitry, tuned to sound like the M49A, with the option to not have the roll off like the M49B.
...I personally preferred the F47 to the F7 in the FleA 49. I do like their F7 in the FleA 47. I know some people feel its a touch dark, but it sounds a ton like one of the U47s I've worked with which had an original M7.
...their frequency response is very close from the top end until about 100 Hz. I had asked Ivan about it. He confirmed what the company build notes said, and told me if I took it apart and took some photos he would confirm whether or not the one had the built in roll off. He also offered to match them if I sent them to him...
....I really like the rolled off one. It's become my primary vocal mic, especially for the operatic stuff. The second one I think works better for the crooning stuff.
Thanks so much for all that info! Digging around online, I stumbled into one of your tube testers videos comparing the capsules in Flea 47/48's, and I was really surprised at the difference between the capsules...like you (and thanks to you!), I much preferred the M7 in those mics. The K47 was "authoritative" to be sure, but the M7 was instant nostalgia. It unfortunately made me think I need one of those some day again. I'm going to email Ivan now that you mention it just to make sure that what I'm hearing jives with the design, but I'd bet it does. I love the mic, and I doubt I'd undo that filter now that I've used it some. I'm also glad you mentioned 100hz, that's the number I've come up with in a way...where I hear the filtering is just below that...it seems like between 60-100hz is where I hear that filter doing more than I expected. Again, thanks for all the pertinent info and also for taking time out to share sounds and reviews. They've come in really handy! That’s a nice video, and thank you for the compliment, but I’m not the Tube Test guy. Johnny and Natalie are great people and we’ve been chatting about collaborating for years. I did shoot out a pair of FleA 47s, one with an F7 and one with an F47. I just haven’t posted it yet. I have some clips of a FleA 49 with an F7, F49, and F7 with an ac701 tube. They are not scientific though. Let me see if I can find them. |
|
