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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 5, 2023 6:49:15 GMT -6
For future reference if anybody is interested in the Coil preamps, I thought I'd post this here. Started working on a new project yesterday and thought I'd only use one preamp for it to get a super cohesive sound. Here's an excerpt of a jam I recorded, takes are identical, split between a Coil CA286 and a CA70, I tried to level match the best I could. These are raw except for levels and pan. I often read about people wanting to hear the difference between these two so here it is! I just moved and haven't played in months, all my strings need changing and my playing is pretty rusty, so bear with me! |
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Post by wiz on Aug 5, 2023 7:48:17 GMT -6
For future reference if anybody is interested in the Coil preamps, I thought I'd post this here. Started working on a new project yesterday and thought I'd only use one preamp for it to get a super cohesive sound. Here's an excerpt of a jam I recorded, takes are identical, split between a Coil CA286 and a CA70, I tried to level match the best I could. These are raw except for levels and pan. I often read about people wanting to hear the difference between these two so here it is! I just moved and haven't played in months, all my strings need changing and my playing is pretty rusty, so bear with me! Really love the vibe and sound….the coil 70 and song sound really harvesty cheers Wiz |
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Post by yewtreemagic on Aug 5, 2023 8:04:29 GMT -6
I really like the sound of both preamps, but while the 'roundness' and low end body of the 70 is pleasing, I did enjoy the extra 'air' and 'zing' offered by the 286.
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 5, 2023 8:51:59 GMT -6
I also really like both, I feel the Coils really suit this genre.
And yeah I may have listened to A LOT of Neil Young!
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Post by sentientsound on Aug 5, 2023 11:56:31 GMT -6
This is awesome, thanks for sharing it here!
I really like the overall sound of the 70s, but the 286 version's opennnes on the acoustic and snare and drum tops is so nice.
Harvesty...great new descriptor to add to my vocabulary, thanks Wiz.
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 5, 2023 12:23:33 GMT -6
I also really like both, I feel the Coils really suit this genre. And yeah I may have listened to A LOT of Neil Young! I listened to "After the gold rush" like a million times when I was in my 20's - wore that LP out. Love the Coils. I have a CA-70s and I regret not buying a 286s when the price was reasonable in my part of the world. |
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 6, 2023 2:28:42 GMT -6
This is awesome, thanks for sharing it here! I really like the overall sound of the 70s, but the 286 version's opennnes on the acoustic and snare and drum tops is so nice. Harvesty...great new descriptor to add to my vocabulary, thanks Wiz. You bet. I'm pretty partial to the 70. There's a finished quality to it. Everything sounds contained and in its place, I really like it. I usually track pretty much everything through the CA70. Then when it comes time to track vocals, If I want the vocals to sit in the mix, I use the CA70, if I want the vocals to sit on top I'll use the 286. |
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 6, 2023 2:40:15 GMT -6
I also really like both, I feel the Coils really suit this genre. And yeah I may have listened to A LOT of Neil Young! I listened to "After the gold rush" like a million times when I was in my 20's - wore that LP out. Love the Coils. I have a CA-70s and I regret not buying a 286s when the price was reasonable in my part of the world. Same here...Harvest is the main reason why I'll often pan snares to the right... The 286 is cool but if you could only have one, you have the one, the CA70 is really special. I'm glad I have both because I love tracking dynamic mics with the 286 cascaded into the CA70 on vocals and acoustic guitars, I've never heard any other preamp flatter dynamic mics the way that combo does. |
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Post by Ward on Aug 7, 2023 8:25:04 GMT -6
I am really surprised that I find myself preferring the 70 over the 286.
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 7, 2023 9:28:32 GMT -6
I am really surprised that I find myself preferring the 70 over the 286. For me on that project, it'a a no brainer! the 70 just seems to add something more mysterious and heavy to the jam. Here's another test, I'm in preamp shootout mode, I added a third preamp. Curious to hear what people like! Attachments:C.mp3 (2.21 MB)
B.mp3 (2.21 MB)
A.mp3 (2.21 MB)
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Post by Ward on Aug 7, 2023 10:19:06 GMT -6
FWIW, B translates better over A and C, on consumer speakers. That low kunk is there in a nice way
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 7, 2023 10:35:51 GMT -6
Thanks for listening. I guess you quite like the CA70!
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Post by drbill on Aug 7, 2023 11:10:27 GMT -6
Thanks for listening. I guess you quite like the CA70! will have no choice but to buy 4-8 channels of CA70's now. His quest is never-ending. |
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Post by Ward on Aug 7, 2023 13:22:24 GMT -6
Thanks for listening. I guess you quite like the CA70! will have no choice but to buy 4-8 channels of CA70's now. His quest is never-ending. This is the way |
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Post by sentientsound on Aug 7, 2023 14:21:05 GMT -6
This thread makes me bummed knowing the 2ch CA-70 rack units aren't built anymore, and pretty much everywhere is backordered for ages on the single channel PS6 and 19" modules. A six-pack with 4 CA-70s and 2 CA-286s must be a joy to work with!
From your new test I like B the most , then A then C.
B just feels more cohesive and focuses my attention on the midrange nad depth more, without sounding dull up top.
A feels slightly bigger than C to me, with more length on the kick drum.
C feels more dry overall in some way and has less of that nice floating feel during the last 10-ish seconds.
Thanks again for sharing these.
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Post by christophert on Aug 7, 2023 16:24:51 GMT -6
The Coils are also amazing used as line in, to process sterile sounding audio.
There is magic in them.
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 8, 2023 0:50:31 GMT -6
This thread makes me bummed knowing the 2ch CA-70 rack units aren't built anymore, and pretty much everywhere is backordered for ages on the single channel PS6 and 19" modules. A six-pack with 4 CA-70s and 2 CA-286s must be a joy to work with! From your new test I like B the most , then A then C. B just feels more cohesive and focuses my attention on the midrange nad depth more, without sounding dull up top. A feels slightly bigger than C to me, with more length on the kick drum. C feels more dry overall in some way and has less of that nice floating feel during the last 10-ish seconds. Thanks again for sharing these. You bet! There are places in the EU where they have stock ( I'll PM you if you're interested ) but yeah they are pretty hard to get. I'm really looking forward to future Coil products. A is the Olympic 65 MicAmp on Germanium mode B is the CA70 C is the 286 Interestingly the way you describe A and C is the reverse for me. I find A to be drier, and C to have more length and "glow". I'm pretty partial to the Coils here, from an emotional point of view, I connect with B and C more, they're a little more cohesive, and there is this kind of halo that I really like. Particularly the 286 on this song, there's an ethereal quality that I don't hear on the others. The Olympic is much faster, obviously, you can hear it on the strummed acoustic and the kick drum. I pretty much use the Coils by default but it's nice to have some transistor options when I want something fast where the transient comes through like on a kick where I want more click and less oomph. It can help showcase which instrument I want driving the groove. |
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 8, 2023 0:52:37 GMT -6
The Coils are also amazing used as line in, to process sterile sounding audio. There is magic in them. agree 100%. If I don't reamp VSTs through the Coils I always struggle to fit them in with real instruments. Reamp them and boom, they instantly find their place in the mix |
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Post by crillemannen on Aug 8, 2023 1:15:33 GMT -6
Nice!
So it seems the 286-style pres has an openess in the midrange. Heard it in my WT-72 as well.
All tube pres I've tried so far has had an openess in the midrange. V76 sounds more hifi, the same with the AT-3 I recently tested on my channel.
The CA-70 seems to do its own thing I would love to demo it.
Does anyone have any personal contact with anyone at Coil Audio that can hook me up?
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 8, 2023 1:33:57 GMT -6
Nice! So it seems the 286-style pres has an openess in the midrange. Heard it in my WT-72 as well. All tube pres I've tried so far has had an openess in the midrange. V76 sounds more hifi, the same with the AT-3 I recently tested on my channel. The CA-70 seems to do its own thing I would love to demo it. Does anyone have any personal contact with anyone at Coil Audio that can hook me up? Thanks! Yeah the 286 is definitely more open, it actually opens up more the more you hit it. You can hear it on the drums of the first example where the preamps are overdriving and the sound is quite a bit crisper on the 286. It's less obvious at lower gain settings like I use on the acoustic ballad. I agree 100%, there is this rich midrange that's really inviting, sounds very musical. A well maintained V76 is hard to beat! But the prices are just insane now, and I've been to so many studios with horrible sounding V72s that I'm just not that interested in pursuing vintage gear these days, particularly since most of the time even if it is working it might not be for very long ( a studio I track most of my stuff just had their all original 47 reskinned and well...I've had U87s reskinned and they sounded just as good after but that U47 completely lost its mojo) |
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Post by crillemannen on Aug 8, 2023 1:39:20 GMT -6
Nice! So it seems the 286-style pres has an openess in the midrange. Heard it in my WT-72 as well. All tube pres I've tried so far has had an openess in the midrange. V76 sounds more hifi, the same with the AT-3 I recently tested on my channel. The CA-70 seems to do its own thing I would love to demo it. Does anyone have any personal contact with anyone at Coil Audio that can hook me up? Thanks! Yeah the 286 is definitely more open, it actually opens up more the more you hit it. You can hear it on the drums of the first example where the preamps are overdriving and the sound is quite a bit crisper on the 286. It's less obvious at lower gain settings like I use on the acoustic ballad. I agree 100%, there is this rich midrange that's really inviting, sounds very musical. A well maintained V76 is hard to beat! But the prices are just insane now, and I've been to so many studios with horrible sounding V72s that I'm just not that interested in pursuing vintage gear these days, particularly since most of the time even if it is working it might not be for very long ( a studio I track most of my stuff just had their all original 47 reskinned and well...I've had U87s reskinned and they sounded just as good after but that U47 completely lost its mojo) The V76 is definitely a very nice preamp! I got mine for a great price in a trade in. I won't say what I traded because then I night look stupid haha, but I got what I wanted.. I do like the realness that a nice tube preamp brings. V72 where cheap for a long time but like you say they need to be serviced and racked which is quite expensive. The AT-3 is a pre you should check out. Fullwidth with a crazy low-end extension, with that V76 toppend. The WT72 is a great preamp too, very affordable. I'm going to play around with some tubeswaps and see what happens |
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 8, 2023 1:50:50 GMT -6
I bought quite a few V72s and got tired of them never sounding matched and having issues. I ended up getting Mercury M72s and To my ears it sounds just as good if not better, same with the Redd47 by Chandler, it's a modern classic that sounds as good as anything made in the day.
The V76 I've never heard anybody quite nail. It sounds effortless, the high end extension is bright and so smooth it's a beautiful thing if you have a nice one!
Yeah that AT3 sounds really really BIG in your demos, and not too expensive.
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Post by sentientsound on Aug 8, 2023 9:25:45 GMT -6
This thread makes me bummed knowing the 2ch CA-70 rack units aren't built anymore, and pretty much everywhere is backordered for ages on the single channel PS6 and 19" modules. A six-pack with 4 CA-70s and 2 CA-286s must be a joy to work with! From your new test I like B the most , then A then C. B just feels more cohesive and focuses my attention on the midrange nad depth more, without sounding dull up top. A feels slightly bigger than C to me, with more length on the kick drum. C feels more dry overall in some way and has less of that nice floating feel during the last 10-ish seconds. Thanks again for sharing these. You bet! There are places in the EU where they have stock ( I'll PM you if you're interested ) but yeah they are pretty hard to get. I'm really looking forward to future Coil products. A is the Olympic 65 MicAmp on Germanium mode B is the CA70 C is the 286 Interestingly the way you describe A and C is the reverse for me. I find A to be drier, and C to have more length and "glow". I'm pretty partial to the Coils here, from an emotional point of view, I connect with B and C more, they're a little more cohesive, and there is this kind of halo that I really like. Particularly the 286 on this song, there's an ethereal quality that I don't hear on the others. The Olympic is much faster, obviously, you can hear it on the strummed acoustic and the kick drum. I pretty much use the Coils by default but it's nice to have some transistor options when I want something fast where the transient comes through like on a kick where I want more click and less oomph. It can help showcase which instrument I want driving the groove. I listened today (on monitors), still feel like A brings out the resonant head ring of the kick more, which is I guess what was drawing my attention to the length. But C definitely had a sense of connected space and a glow to the bass that wasn't so noticeable on last night's headphones listen. B still stands out as the most special, just feels like music and appeals to my sonic taste the most. For your MicAmps did you use the ouput TX and/or Air lift? I have a pair of Jim's MicEQ and love them. Rocking preamps, espeically for the 500 format. Could you please PM me about the Coils? And thanks again Brice! |
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 8, 2023 9:47:11 GMT -6
For the micamps I had the TX output on yes but no airlift. That airlift is very powerful, I only use it very rarely!
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Post by Mister Chase on Aug 9, 2023 9:40:47 GMT -6
Love this style. Enough room for things to sound huge. The 70 is just right, to me. The air and lift on the 286 is cool but maybe just on some elements. It threw me off at first but then again I heard it second so...
Guess I need to add some coil to the herd.
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