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Post by suicity on Aug 10, 2023 11:30:22 GMT -6
That's great, nice difference between those two. I could see tracking a folky album like that using the CA-70 and then mixing it through the 286 to open everything up a bit and tuck some of the buildup in the low mids. I think I'm going to end up liking the CA-70 a lot more, but the 286 would probably be a better fit for me. I have a tendency to use darker and more neutral mics, would probably do me good to sprinkle in something like the 286 along the way. It really depends on the mic and source because on quite a few sources the CA70 is actually brighter up top. To my ears it actually has more information way up top, particularly with the NF maxed. They both have a small mid push, but the center frequency on the 286 is a higher I'd say. The CA70s lows are definitely big but you can attenuate it with that low switch quite a bit without thinning out the sound, they're also really nice in a big room because they have so much reach, you can mic things from further away and still have the source feel really solid. If I could only have one it would be the CA70s but I would really miss the 286! , thanks for the clarification. Follow up question for all: does the lack of high adjustment on the 2u rack version cause a problem? i.e. is it possible to get that high end information back with an EQ? Or is it lost by that point on the rack mount version? |
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 10, 2023 12:18:23 GMT -6
I'm relieved y'all don't all make demos like bricejchandler ! Nice tunes! Thank you for taking the time! That Oly into the CA70 sounds like a million bucks to me, but was really surprised how much I liked the character of the 286. These preamps really are something special. Would love to hear the Locomotive 86B-2 in a similar style test against the 286. Any chance you've used the Olympic (or Oly->CA70) on any hip hop vocals? You bet. I was testing a bunch of mic-preamp chains for upcoming projects so I figured I'd share! You know what, when I was recording through the Olympic-CA70, I thought to myself exactly that, this is super in your face and would be cool for hip hop and sorry no hip hop vocals, you do not want to hear me rap. |
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 10, 2023 12:25:09 GMT -6
It really depends on the mic and source because on quite a few sources the CA70 is actually brighter up top. To my ears it actually has more information way up top, particularly with the NF maxed. They both have a small mid push, but the center frequency on the 286 is a higher I'd say. The CA70s lows are definitely big but you can attenuate it with that low switch quite a bit without thinning out the sound, they're also really nice in a big room because they have so much reach, you can mic things from further away and still have the source feel really solid. If I could only have one it would be the CA70s but I would really miss the 286! , thanks for the clarification. Follow up question for all: does the lack of high adjustment on the 2u rack version cause a problem? i.e. is it possible to get that high end information back with an EQ? Or is it lost by that point on the rack mount version? Maybe the Coil guys'll chime in with more detailed information. But from I understand, it's more of a high cut, it doesn't add highs. So you'll have as much high end in the rack as in the modular version. I'm sure if it were available to me I'd use it, but I've never been like, man I can't make this work if only I had that high cut. And though the Coils are not as bright as a Redd preamp for example, they are definitely not dull and if you wish to add high end, there's plenty of info up there to get it as bright as you'd like with a quality eq. |
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Post by suicity on Aug 10, 2023 12:51:57 GMT -6
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Post by andersmv on Aug 11, 2023 13:54:59 GMT -6
These better sound bigger than my Presonus Digimax pre's.....  Attachments:
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Post by andersmv on Aug 11, 2023 19:14:30 GMT -6
We'll make this a communal "learn as we go" experience :lol:. These are stupid rough, this is usually the routine I go through when trying a new preamp. Set up my Vanguard V44s stereo mic and faced both capsules forward, sent one to each preamp. As close as I can get to a direct comparison without using a splitter. Google drive link below, all files lined up. I did a run through of playing with the knobs on both preamp at the same time. Then I did one where I found my favorite sounding settings on each respective preamp and compared. Finally did one comparing the 286 to one of my API preamps just for a reference. ( drive.google.com/drive/folders/1M-DX1lOXFxwRnqcae-XnJqYCO6weBT2j?usp=drive_link) Attachments:
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 11, 2023 23:25:10 GMT -6
The CA70 sounds huge with you favorite setting on the acoustic, body, detail.
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Post by crillemannen on Aug 12, 2023 3:02:03 GMT -6
We'll make this a communal "learn as we go" experience :lol:. These are stupid rough, this is usually the routine I go through when trying a new preamp. Set up my Vanguard V44s stereo mic and faced both capsules forward, sent one to each preamp. As close as I can get to a direct comparison without using a splitter. Google drive link below, all files lined up. I did a run through of playing with the knobs on both preamp at the same time. Then I did one where I found my favorite sounding settings on each respective preamp and compared. Finally did one comparing the 286 to one of my API preamps just for a reference. ( drive.google.com/drive/folders/1M-DX1lOXFxwRnqcae-XnJqYCO6weBT2j?usp=drive_link) I invested in a trafo-splitter. Great way to demo preamps. Totally worth it 👍 |
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Post by andersmv on Aug 12, 2023 7:00:55 GMT -6
We'll make this a communal "learn as we go" experience :lol:. These are stupid rough, this is usually the routine I go through when trying a new preamp. Set up my Vanguard V44s stereo mic and faced both capsules forward, sent one to each preamp. As close as I can get to a direct comparison without using a splitter. Google drive link below, all files lined up. I did a run through of playing with the knobs on both preamp at the same time. Then I did one where I found my favorite sounding settings on each respective preamp and compared. Finally did one comparing the 286 to one of my API preamps just for a reference. ( drive.google.com/drive/folders/1M-DX1lOXFxwRnqcae-XnJqYCO6weBT2j?usp=drive_link) I invested in a trafo-splitter. Great way to demo preamps. Totally worth it 👍 I’ve got a few really nice Radial splitter that I use all the time. I agree, well worth the investment. Talking to the Coil Audio guys, a huge part of the sound is the direct link between the preamp and the microphone, so there were concerns voiced about using a splitter for this. It’s a little frustrating, but I’m not technically knowledgeable enough to get into that. I understand impedance, and I know a lot of effort was put into the Coil design with this in mind. I wouldn’t want another transformer in the chain either for a real comparison like this. They obviously sound really good and really big, attention to details “might” have something to do with that….  |
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 12, 2023 9:21:11 GMT -6
I invested in a trafo-splitter. Great way to demo preamps. Totally worth it 👍 I’ve got a few really nice Radial splitter that I use all the time. I agree, well worth the investment. Talking to the Coil Audio guys, a huge part of the sound is the direct link between the preamp and the microphone, so there were concerns voiced about using a splitter for this. It’s a little frustrating, but I’m not technically knowledgeable enough to get into that. I understand impedance, and I know a lot of effort was put into the Coil design with this in mind. I wouldn’t want another transformer in the chain either for a real comparison like this. They obviously sound really good and really big, attention to details “might” have something to do with that…. Yeah there is no perfect way to do this. Using two different mics isn't a perfect solution either. I mean when you know the capsule tolerance for U87s is +/- 2b, that's going to be a far more noticeable difference that between most preamps. When I'm just comparing 2 preamps I usually use Two Schoeps mics as they seem to be really really close sounding. I've also noticed that when you're singing, unless you're not using headphones, you're going to be affected by which preamp you're monitoring. Like let's say I have the CA70 in the cans, maybe I step back a little bit because of the lows, but then the 286 which I'm not monitoring might thin out a bit. It's also hard to adjust volumes, I mean some preamps shave off the transients, compress more, there's no way to perfectly adjust the volume. And another thing I was thinking the other day when doing all my tests was, I usually do a volume and pan mix for one of the preamps and then copy paste it to the others, but then it's not always necessarily the volumes I would've use for those others preamps because different frequencies are highlighted. Ultimately that's why it's always good to spend time with the gear in your own environment, get to know it. Concerning the Coils and them being directly connected to the mic, I've definitely noticed some major differences with dynamic mics when using a splitter. Less so with externally powered condenser mics. |
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 12, 2023 9:29:29 GMT -6
I love pairing the Coil CA-70s with a Retro STA Level (Gates STA recreation)
It appears to be the perfect marriage of tone and smoothness, incredible with a 47 on male vocals or acoustic guitar.
I've wondered if it's because the provenance of the CA-70 is the Gates SA-70 tube pre.
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Post by sirthought on Aug 12, 2023 13:38:26 GMT -6
I invested in a trafo-splitter. Great way to demo preamps. Totally worth it 👍 Which one do you suggest using? |
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Post by crillemannen on Aug 12, 2023 14:34:09 GMT -6
I invested in a trafo-splitter. Great way to demo preamps. Totally worth it 👍 Which one do you suggest using? I have a custom one that my local tech build with Jensen transformers. I can split one signal and use up to four different preamps. From what I've understood this is the best way to split the signal. Perhaps someone can chime in that is a bit more technical skilled? |
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Post by christophert on Aug 12, 2023 16:49:02 GMT -6
I love pairing the Coil CA-70s with a Retro STA Level (Gates STA recreation) It appears to be the perfect marriage of tone and smoothness, incredible with a 47 on male vocals or acoustic guitar. I've wondered if it's because the provenance of the CA-70 is the Gates SA-70 tube pre. I'm often marrying my Coil CA-70s with BG2s - incredible combo. Also Coles overheads into a Pair of CA-70's into a POM Fairchild is to die for.
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Post by thehightenor on Aug 12, 2023 18:06:13 GMT -6
I love pairing the Coil CA-70s with a Retro STA Level (Gates STA recreation) It appears to be the perfect marriage of tone and smoothness, incredible with a 47 on male vocals or acoustic guitar. I've wondered if it's because the provenance of the CA-70 is the Gates SA-70 tube pre. I'm often marrying my Coil CA-70s with BG2s - incredible combo. Also Coles overheads into a Pair of CA-70's into a POM Fairchild is to die for.
Lovely. I have a chain I love that's similar. AEA R92 > Coil CA-70 > Phoenix Mastering Plus. Ribbon mics, vintage tube pre-s and vari MU compressors - it's so easy to get a fantastic signal. It's just that vintage of sound that's so appealing. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 13, 2023 2:49:54 GMT -6
Being an early Coil convert I have 6 channels of 70’s and 2 channels of 286’s. I love the “tape” glue of the 70’s and the beauty of the 286 but I have so many other clear tube pre’s like a pair of branch 2’s, REDD 47’s and a pair of Tubetech MP2’s. Plus lots of other modules and Thermionic stuff.
The Coils are just so easy and uniform to use which I love and nothing beats them on drums which is all I enjoy recording these days mainly.
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Post by suicity on Aug 13, 2023 5:59:26 GMT -6
Being an early Coil convert I have 6 channels of 70’s and 2 channels of 286’s. I love the “tape” glue of the 70’s and the beauty of the 286 but I have so many other clear tube pre’s like a pair of branch 2’s, REDD 47’s and a pair of Tubetech MP2’s. Plus lots of other modules and Thermionic stuff. The Coils are just so easy and uniform to use which I love and nothing beats them on drums which is all I enjoy recording these days mainly. would you compare the sound of the 286s to the other clear tube pres you've mentioned? And for those that have experience with both, is the Locomotive 286 comparable in sound to the Coil 286s? Sorry for all the questions, but I live somewhere very distant to any way of demo'ing any of these. |
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 13, 2023 7:06:31 GMT -6
Being an early Coil convert I have 6 channels of 70’s and 2 channels of 286’s. I love the “tape” glue of the 70’s and the beauty of the 286 but I have so many other clear tube pre’s like a pair of branch 2’s, REDD 47’s and a pair of Tubetech MP2’s. Plus lots of other modules and Thermionic stuff. The Coils are just so easy and uniform to use which I love and nothing beats them on drums which is all I enjoy recording these days mainly. would you compare the sound of the 286s to the other clear tube pres you've mentioned? And for those that have experience with both, is the Locomotive 286 comparable in sound to the Coil 286s? Sorry for all the questions, but I live somewhere very distant to any way of demo'ing any of these. I've got about 1% of Paul's experience and ears but I have heard all of the above preamps in my place, most for at least a couple weeks, some for a lot longer. The Redd 47s and the 286 definitely share some DNA, the Redd is a brighter, more scooped sounding and a little less tapey on the transients. The di is wonderful. It's a great preamp, incredible on vocals, acoustics. Out of all these, it's probably the only one I hope to buy someday. I owned a Branch MK1 for years and it was my goto before the Coils. The Branch is inspired by old Gates designs I've been told and you hear it, it's a bit closer in sound to the CA70 ( a bit ). It's also a bit brighter compared to the Coils, but not at all the same as the Redd, it feels more hifi, it's fast, detailed and big, to be honest it reminds me a bit of the Forssell preamps mixed with some tube goodness. It's not as retro sounding as the look would make you think. It's a great sounding preamp, the eq is nice, the compressor was useless in my experience. I ultimately sold it because, though it was very flattering, for what I do things always ended up sounding a bit polite for my tastes. The Tube Tech is very nice, the MP2 is not as dark and slow as the older version which I think is a nice thing actually. It's a classic sounding preamp, a studio I go to has one and I'm always happy to use it. Thermionic Earlybird preamps are wonderful sounding, clean but not boring but ultimately if you're interested in Coil, it's like comparing a Martin to a Taylor guitar they're just so different sounding. Edit: when I'm talking about the 286 I'm talking about the Coils, I have heard the Locomotive preamp but not long enough to really form an opinion, though it sunded good the little I heard |
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Post by EmRR on Aug 13, 2023 7:20:05 GMT -6
Think of the splitter this way - you’re putting the input transformers to be compared into a blender, and they’re being steered toward each other since they are paralleled. You will have less differences, plus any sound the splitter has - which BTW should be a dual iso split so each path has the transformer in it, rather than a single iso with a direct path and an iso path. So a 3 way splitter.
Sometimes the best comparison is hot patching the mic back and forth between pre’s while a single performance is happening. Or a playback source through a line pad, one at a time.
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Post by bricejchandler on Aug 13, 2023 7:48:37 GMT -6
Think of the splitter this way - you’re putting the input transformers to be compared into a blender, and they’re being steered toward each other since they are paralleled. You will have less differences, plus any sound the splitter has - which BTW should be a dual iso split so each path has the transformer in it, rather than a single iso with a direct path and an iso path. So a 3 way splitter. Sometimes the best comparison is hot patching the mic back and forth between pre’s while a single performance is happening. Or a playback source through a line pad, one at a time. Yeah the playback line pad thing is probably the best but it's just not quite as fun! I bought an Avedis converter just for this. |
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Post by paulcheeba on Aug 13, 2023 10:25:15 GMT -6
paulcheeba would you compare the sound of the 286s to the other clear tube pres you've mentioned? And for those that have experience with both, is the Locomotive 286 comparable in sound to the Coil 286s? Sorry for all the questions, but I live somewhere very distant to any way of demo'ing any of these. I've got about 1% of Paul's experience and ears but I have heard all of the above preamps in my place, most for at least a couple weeks, some for a lot longer. The Redd 47s and the 286 definitely share some DNA, the Redd is a brighter, more scooped sounding and a little less tapey on the transients. The di is wonderful. It's a great preamp, incredible on vocals, acoustics. Out of all these, it's probably the only one I hope to buy someday. I owned a Branch MK1 for years and it was my goto before the Coils. The Branch is inspired by old Gates designs I've been told and you hear it, it's a bit closer in sound to the CA70 ( a bit ). It's also a bit brighter compared to the Coils, but not at all the same as the Redd, it feels more hifi, it's fast, detailed and big, to be honest it reminds me a bit of the Forssell preamps mixed with some tube goodness. It's not as retro sounding as the look would make you think. It's a great sounding preamp, the eq is nice, the compressor was useless in my experience. I ultimately sold it because, though it was very flattering, for what I do things always ended up sounding a bit polite for my tastes. The Tube Tech is very nice, the MP2 is not as dark and slow as the older version which I think is a nice thing actually. It's a classic sounding preamp, a studio I go to has one and I'm always happy to use it. Thermionic Earlybird preamps are wonderful sounding, clean but not boring but ultimately if you're interested in Coil, it's like comparing a Martin to a Taylor guitar they're just so different sounding. Edit: when I'm talking about the 286 I'm talking about the Coils, I have heard the Locomotive preamp but not long enough to really form an opinion, though it sunded good the little I heard I agree with what Brice said. And thanks Bryce for such lovely, warm, raw tracks. Great demonstrations! The Tubetech MP2 is sort of in the same vein as a Fearn but a bit more open, Fearn is more mid range to my ears. The Thermionic gear goes from hi fi and pristine to dirty as you like, depending on the pre. I like the Rooster 2 a lot. The Tree Branch 2's are cleaner than you'd imagine but they're great channel strips with eq and compression sounding somewhere between the Coils. The Redd is like the classic German tube pre's with that elegance and glow. The La Chappell 583 is a small box but bigger sounding than expected and with some good tubes it sounds impressive. I have an Electronaut M63 too which I usually use as a giant DI box if my ZOD's are tied up. That has a big sound that drives with a hairy edge. |
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Post by Ward on Aug 16, 2023 12:12:24 GMT -6
Being an early Coil convert I have 6 channels of 70’s and 2 channels of 286’s. I love the “tape” glue of the 70’s and the beauty of the 286 but I have so many other clear tube pre’s like a pair of branch 2’s, REDD 47’s and a pair of Tubetech MP2’s. Plus lots of other modules and Thermionic stuff. The Coils are just so easy and uniform to use which I love and nothing beats them on drums which is all I enjoy recording these days mainly. Only 8 coils out of your 684 preamps? Preposterous! |
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Post by drsax on Aug 16, 2023 16:22:58 GMT -6
I want a CA-70s. Or two  |
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Post by drbill on Aug 16, 2023 16:27:30 GMT -6
I want a CA-70s. Or two Would be great for Tenor / Alto!!! <<thumbsup>> |
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Post by drsax on Aug 16, 2023 16:31:57 GMT -6
I want a CA-70s. Or two Would be great for Tenor / Alto!!! <<thumbsup>> Yessir |
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