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Post by andersmv on Sept 30, 2024 16:04:09 GMT -6
Regardless of the design differences between the two, they're both very much "coil" sounding and share the same unique features that make them sound so good. Both have a nice, smooth top end and sound warm. Both add a lot of body to the source. I would say the 286 is the less extreme of the two and sounds clearer and more open. When pushed, the 286 keeps the low end together a lot better in terms of the punch and power. The 70 is more like a tape machine, lots of great non linearities and harmonic distortion. It's a bit darker/warmer and adds a lot of great character and weight to the mid range. The low end will come out the other end sounding a bit different, many times I find it rounds out the super low sub frequencies and pushes the emphasis of the low end "up" a bit in the frequency range. With kick drum for example, you might loose a little bit of the sub'ey low end when pushed through the CA-70, but there's a bit more focus on the lower mids and attack that can make it push through a mix better. If I had a baritone coming into the studio, my first inclination would be to patch you into the 286. You've probably already got a lot of great character and power in the lower register, I wouldn't want to overdo it. 286 would help round you out nicely and give a bit more focus and clarity up top. That's just my gut reaction, it's obviously going to depend on the mic/singer/whatever. Thanks for the answer! I like very much the thickness of the ca70 (I sing in a baritone range but my bass frequency is not so pronounce) but I like the clearness of the 286 too. Which one in your opinion will pair better with soyuz 017 tube? I havn't run vocals with any of the Soyuz mics through the Coils. I've had the FET and Tube 013 small caps through the Coils, the CA-70 was pretty special on acoustic instruments. For the Bomblet, I preferred the 286 most of the time. I would probably still use the 286 with the 017 Tube for your voice if I had the choice. |
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Post by poppaflavor on Sept 30, 2024 18:48:58 GMT -6
I had a tube crap out in one of my 286's. Talked to Coil about tubes, they suggested trying an E80F for something different. I just got a pair of vintage Mullard/Phillips E80F's and did a quick test on acoustic. I split the signal with my Radial splitter, one of my 286's has the EF86's and the other one has the E80F's. I level matched them as well in post, same settings on the Coils on each preamp. First pass at the beginning is with Negative Feedback in the Neutral/12:00 position, second half I turned NF all the way down to add some character and brighten things up. drive.google.com/drive/folders/1sA73fu_BmZDtXwhnMYzRtOFAUyapMioc?usp=sharingWow, how did I miss this last year? What a great demo! I really like that E80F in the CA286. A bit thicker and warmer and smooths the transients a bit more. I've got a 286 and I've got to try this! thehightenor per your note about EF86 tubes this tube roll of the 286 with the E80F tube might be a nice middle ground. I agree with everything that andersmv said, I have both the 286 and the 70 and I think the 70s might be a little bit heavy for a baritone voice. You can brighten it up quite substantially by lessening the negative feedback and cutting the low knob, but it's a pretty thick beast at most settings. buzzo take a listen to those samples that andersmv posted with is 286 and the different tubes. It sounds to me like the 286 might be a nice option for a baritone who wanted an open Coil Audio sound and yet still have an option to darken it a tad by replacing the EF86 with the E80F tube. |
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Post by bricejchandler on Oct 1, 2024 1:03:43 GMT -6
Soyuz 017 is very very midforward and 286 has a substantial mid bump too. Depending on the vocalist it could easily be too much.
The ca70 feels more linear in the midrange. It’s also darker though I don’t feel like it lacks clarity, it is actually quite detailed in the high end, and opens up easily with a nice eq.
I personally love u47 into 286, that is a lot of mids but it really cuts through the midrange.
Ultimately one of the reasons I posted all these demos is because when I bought my Coils I couldn’t find many A/Bs. I feel it should be relatively easy to see which color you like better by listening to the audio files, at least I find it more telling than trying to explain how a preamp sounds. I posted quite a few other comparisons on GS in the Coil thread and Andersmv’s video on the Coil are as thorough as you can get and really highlight the differences on numerous sources.
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 1, 2024 1:23:03 GMT -6
Depends on the singer. I dislike anything with EF86 tube in it for my voice - as it’s always too hi-fi sounding. So my preference when buying a Coil was the CA-70s for tracking my vocals with a 47. Sounds great with acoustic guitar and bass too for certain genres. I’m certain the 286 is great too on other sources and other singers and if I had rack space I’d like to own both. Thank u! My voice is in the baritone range and I was wondering if 286 could fit better it. Sure, if your voice is quite dark then the 286 could be really nice. I have a bright tenor voice and so the 70 is a no brainer - I demoed both and the stand out for me was the 70. The negative feedback control is brilliant, I roll mine to 1pm and it just softens the top and a touch in a way EQ cannot. I have a Millennia STT-1 tube pre-amp and I felt is was close to the more hi-fi sound of the 286, not exactly the same but a bit of a double up for me - the CA-70 was very different and unique and I really love it on my vocals. Wunder CM7 > CA-70s > Retro STA or Phoenix MP > HEDD 192 It’s a very smooth musical sound for my voice. But sometimes I’ll record SM7 > BAE 1073 > BLA Bluey And get some R&R edge for some tunes. I think it’s good to have options when it comes to vocals. |
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buzzo
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Post by buzzo on Oct 1, 2024 13:12:07 GMT -6
Soyuz 017 is very very midforward and 286 has a substantial mid bump too. Depending on the vocalist it could easily be too much. The ca70 feels more linear in the midrange. It’s also darker though I don’t feel like it lacks clarity, it is actually quite detailed in the high end, and opens up easily with a nice eq. I personally love u47 into 286, that is a lot of mids but it really cuts through the midrange. Ultimately one of the reasons I posted all these demos is because when I bought my Coils I couldn’t find many A/Bs. I feel it should be relatively easy to see which color you like better by listening to the audio files, at least I find it more telling than trying to explain how a preamp sounds. I posted quite a few other comparisons on GS in the Coil thread and Andersmv’s video on the Coil are as thorough as you can get and really highlight the differences on numerous sources. Thank u! Do you think that a u47 style mic (like flea47next or Horch Rm2j is a better choice paired with coil 286 than soyuz? |
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buzzo
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Post by buzzo on Oct 1, 2024 13:13:09 GMT -6
I had a tube crap out in one of my 286's. Talked to Coil about tubes, they suggested trying an E80F for something different. I just got a pair of vintage Mullard/Phillips E80F's and did a quick test on acoustic. I split the signal with my Radial splitter, one of my 286's has the EF86's and the other one has the E80F's. I level matched them as well in post, same settings on the Coils on each preamp. First pass at the beginning is with Negative Feedback in the Neutral/12:00 position, second half I turned NF all the way down to add some character and brighten things up. drive.google.com/drive/folders/1sA73fu_BmZDtXwhnMYzRtOFAUyapMioc?usp=sharingWow, how did I miss this last year? What a great demo! I really like that E80F in the CA286. A bit thicker and warmer and smooths the transients a bit more. I've got a 286 and I've got to try this! thehightenor per your note about EF86 tubes this tube roll of the 286 with the E80F tube might be a nice middle ground. I agree with everything that andersmv said, I have both the 286 and the 70 and I think the 70s might be a little bit heavy for a baritone voice. You can brighten it up quite substantially by lessening the negative feedback and cutting the low knob, but it's a pretty thick beast at most settings. buzzo take a listen to those samples that andersmv posted with is 286 and the different tubes. It sounds to me like the 286 might be a nice option for a baritone who wanted an open Coil Audio sound and yet still have an option to darken it a tad by replacing the EF86 with the E80F tube. This is a very interesting idea! I like a lot the sound with ef80 |
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 2, 2024 0:46:12 GMT -6
Soyuz 017 is very very midforward and 286 has a substantial mid bump too. Depending on the vocalist it could easily be too much. The ca70 feels more linear in the midrange. It’s also darker though I don’t feel like it lacks clarity, it is actually quite detailed in the high end, and opens up easily with a nice eq. I personally love u47 into 286, that is a lot of mids but it really cuts through the midrange. Ultimately one of the reasons I posted all these demos is because when I bought my Coils I couldn’t find many A/Bs. I feel it should be relatively easy to see which color you like better by listening to the audio files, at least I find it more telling than trying to explain how a preamp sounds. I posted quite a few other comparisons on GS in the Coil thread and Andersmv’s video on the Coil are as thorough as you can get and really highlight the differences on numerous sources. Thank u! Do you think that a u47 style mic (like flea47next or Horch Rm2j is a better choice paired with coil 286 than soyuz? Mics are like gloves - you have to use the one that matches your hand (so to speak) I love the Sony 800G .... but not on my voice! If I sing through one I could remove a man's fillings at 10 feet! On my bright tenor voice these three mics sound great U47 SM7b (SM58) Beyer M88 Mostly I use my Wunder CM7 (which is a fantastic 47 clone using an EF14 tube) But these three mics above might sound average on your voice and something else perfect - you have to demo some mics or go to a well equioed studio and try their selection out to discover the catagory of mics (caspule design) that works well for your voice. If you're recording other singers then you're going to have to build a mic locker to cover a decent range of voices. |
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Post by poppaflavor on Oct 2, 2024 3:54:56 GMT -6
Thank u! Do you think that a u47 style mic (like flea47next or Horch Rm2j is a better choice paired with coil 286 than soyuz? Mics are like gloves - you have to use the one that matches your hand (so to speak) I love the Sony 800G .... but not on my voice! If I sing through one I could remove a man's fillings at 10 feet! On my bright tenor voice these three mics sound great U47 SM7b (SM58) Beyer M88 Mostly I use my Wunder CM7 (which is a fantastic 47 clone using an EF14 tube) But these three mics above might sound average on your voice and something else perfect - you have to demo some mics or go to a well equioed studio and try their selection out to discover the catagory of mics (caspule design) that works well for your voice. If you're recording other singers then you're going to have to build a mic locker to cover a decent range of voices.
I hope this isn't too much of a hijack but on your last point... I recently got this thing and it's basically a small mic locker all by itself. buzzo you may be interested at some point in checking out this tone beast mic to complement your Coil Pre :-)
Truly stunning palette of tones available. A BeezNeez CK12 capsule with three voicings on the mic, and on the PSU there's a vintage sag/boost knob and a a polarity knob with settings from omni to carry to fig8. it can do anything from C12 crisp to gravelly Tom Bodette.
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buzzo
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Post by buzzo on Oct 2, 2024 6:21:09 GMT -6
Thank u! Do you think that a u47 style mic (like flea47next or Horch Rm2j is a better choice paired with coil 286 than soyuz? Mics are like gloves - you have to use the one that matches your hand (so to speak) I love the Sony 800G .... but not on my voice! If I sing through one I could remove a man's fillings at 10 feet! On my bright tenor voice these three mics sound great U47 SM7b (SM58) Beyer M88 Mostly I use my Wunder CM7 (which is a fantastic 47 clone using an EF14 tube) But these three mics above might sound average on your voice and something else perfect - you have to demo some mics or go to a well equioed studio and try their selection out to discover the catagory of mics (caspule design) that works well for your voice. If you're recording other singers then you're going to have to build a mic locker to cover a decent range of voices. I know, but is it not so simple: they cost so much and I can buy only one mic at once. Furthermore, it is difficult to find them where I live, I have to order them. I ask the forum in an attempt to get as close as possible to the microphone best suited to my voice based on the opinion of those who have more experience than me. I sing in a baritone register (often limited at E3-E4 interval), I have a warm voice but my low-mid are not so big. Thanks! |
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Post by thehightenor on Oct 2, 2024 8:04:22 GMT -6
Mics are like gloves - you have to use the one that matches your hand (so to speak) I love the Sony 800G .... but not on my voice! If I sing through one I could remove a man's fillings at 10 feet! On my bright tenor voice these three mics sound great U47 SM7b (SM58) Beyer M88 Mostly I use my Wunder CM7 (which is a fantastic 47 clone using an EF14 tube) But these three mics above might sound average on your voice and something else perfect - you have to demo some mics or go to a well equioed studio and try their selection out to discover the catagory of mics (caspule design) that works well for your voice. If you're recording other singers then you're going to have to build a mic locker to cover a decent range of voices. I know, but is it not so simple: they cost so much and I can buy only one mic at once. Furthermore, it is difficult to find them where I live, I have to order them. I ask the forum in an attempt to get as close as possible to the microphone best suited to my voice based on the opinion of those who have more experience than me. I sing in a baritone register (often limited at E3-E4 interval), I have a warm voice but my low-mid are not so big. Thanks! I get that - it took me literally decades to build my smallish mic locker! There are lot's of great budget conscious mics available these days. |
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Post by teejay on Oct 2, 2024 8:51:10 GMT -6
Thanks for the answer! I like very much the thickness of the ca70 (I sing in a baritone range but my bass frequency is not so pronounce) but I like the clearness of the 286 too. Which one in your opinion will pair better with soyuz 017 tube? I havn't run vocals with any of the Soyuz mics through the Coils. I've had the FET and Tube 013 small caps through the Coils, the CA-70 was pretty special on acoustic instruments. For the Bomblet, I preferred the 286 most of the time. I would probably still use the 286 with the 017 Tube for your voice if I had the choice. I've got the 017 Tube and CA-70S. Can provide a vocal clip if interested. I'm between a baritone and a true tenor. |
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Post by buzzo on Oct 2, 2024 10:19:47 GMT -6
I havn't run vocals with any of the Soyuz mics through the Coils. I've had the FET and Tube 013 small caps through the Coils, the CA-70 was pretty special on acoustic instruments. For the Bomblet, I preferred the 286 most of the time. I would probably still use the 286 with the 017 Tube for your voice if I had the choice. I've got the 017 Tube and CA-70S. Can provide a vocal clip if interested. I'm between a baritone and a true tenor. Thank you Teejay, it would be great! |
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Post by poppaflavor on Oct 2, 2024 17:24:11 GMT -6
I've got the 017 Tube and CA-70S. Can provide a vocal clip if interested. I'm between a baritone and a true tenor. I'd like to hear as well if you're ok posting here. I've been very curious about the 017 Tube through the 70-S. |
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Post by teejay on Oct 2, 2024 18:10:22 GMT -6
Let me know if there are particular settings you want to hear. Otherwise I’ll probably go with Input=0, Low=0, NF=12:00
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Post by drumster on Oct 2, 2024 18:15:56 GMT -6
I havn't run vocals with any of the Soyuz mics through the Coils. I've had the FET and Tube 013 small caps through the Coils, the CA-70 was pretty special on acoustic instruments. For the Bomblet, I preferred the 286 most of the time. I would probably still use the 286 with the 017 Tube for your voice if I had the choice. I've got the 017 Tube and CA-70S. Can provide a vocal clip if interested. I'm between a baritone and a true tenor. I've got the 017 FET, and I'd also be interested in hearing a clip. |
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Post by poppaflavor on Oct 2, 2024 18:52:39 GMT -6
Let me know if there are particular settings you want to hear. Otherwise I’ll probably go with Input=0, Low=0, NF=12:00 Hmmm. Seems kind of neutral. I'm more keen on special interactions. How about- Input=0, Low=+2, NF=9:0, Output= Low as possible. [bit of smiley face curve] Or Input= -6, Low= -2, NF= 2;00, Output= high. [Low roll off and softening of the tone with the NF, including additional NF coming from a higher output] It's hard for me to guess from the sidelines. If not that, how about something kind of extreme (not a drive/distortion thing, more frequency response). |
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Post by teejay on Oct 2, 2024 21:15:45 GMT -6
I get it. Can do those. As far as extreme, I want to be sure I provide the requester with something that’s basic as a baseline.
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Post by teejay on Oct 5, 2024 13:27:47 GMT -6
Here you go. These were four quick takes without warm-up and a bit pitchy in areas  , but should still give the overall feel. Recorded at 24/96, but I had to render at 24/48 to get them to play on Dropbox. No eq or compression. Soyuz 017 Tube>Coil>RME Multiface II>Reaper. Vocals only, a smidge of Little Plate. Filename Key
First number is Input: 0, -6, -12, -19 Second number is Low: -4, -2, 0, +2, +4 Third number is Negative Frequency: Think of the setting as time on a clock (6 = full counterclockwise) Fourth Lettering: OP = Output, L = low, M = medium, H = high Sample Files Here |
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Post by poppaflavor on Oct 8, 2024 15:20:48 GMT -6
Here you go. These were four quick takes without warm-up and a bit pitchy in areas , but should still give the overall feel. Recorded at 24/96, but I had to render at 24/48 to get them to play on Dropbox. No eq or compression. Soyuz 017 Tube>Coil>RME Multiface II>Reaper. Vocals only, a smidge of Little Plate. Filename Key
First number is Input: 0, -6, -12, -19 Second number is Low: -4, -2, 0, +2, +4 Third number is Negative Frequency: Think of the setting as time on a clock (6 = full counterclockwise) Fourth Lettering: OP = Output, L = low, M = medium, H = high Sample Files HereHoly moly how did I miss this? Sorry for the delayed reply, I still haven't figured out how to get notifications from this site. First off, you've an incredible voice. I can't imagine there's a mic in existence where your voice wouldn't sound fantastic. It's just a matter of degree on which mic and which pre elevates it best. And that Coil does wonders with it. What an incredible palette of tonal flavors, eh? It's funny, because I have one of those units I can totally recognize what's happening with each of those settings. For example turning the negative feedback clockwise can lead to an apparent darkening of the track even when the low knob is turned to negative values. This was really helpful, you really featured some key sweet spots for the CA70. This should help folks out a lot, and for me it was very helpful to hear that mic. None of the settings sounded poorly with the 017 tube microphone. They all were useful. I'm particularly impressed that you were able to capture that grainy ephemeral character of the CA70S that I'm always chasing. I always feel like I can hear each vocal cord ringing out against its neighbor when I am able to capture that setting. It's this one: Soyuz Coil 0 +2 9 OPL 48k Crisp, defined and effervescent. I think I need a Soyuz 017 Tube  |
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Post by teejay on Oct 9, 2024 17:25:59 GMT -6
Thanks for the kind words. Can't go wrong with the Coil pres. The Soyuz is a great mic.
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Post by wiz on Oct 9, 2024 20:11:05 GMT -6
files sound like you are sitting right next to me... great stuff
cheers
Wiz
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Post by bricejchandler on Oct 10, 2024 2:29:24 GMT -6
Agreed sounds really wonderful.
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Post by teejay on Oct 11, 2024 14:46:25 GMT -6
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Post by christophert on Oct 11, 2024 22:24:41 GMT -6
I use my 3 CA70's every session, and lately loving mixing through them: CA70 / Silver Bullet MKII / CAG250 / Michaelangelo I'm always in a bind trying to work out what I can use them on as they sound so great on most things. They are astonishing on overheads. I am going to have to save for a 6 rack  I would love to do a bunch of albums only using the Coils. |
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, but should still give the overall feel. Recorded at 24/96, but I had to render at 24/48 to get them to play on Dropbox. No eq or compression. Soyuz 017 Tube>Coil>RME Multiface II>Reaper. Vocals only, a smidge of Little Plate.
