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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 23, 2024 11:42:00 GMT -6
Since you're primarily recording vocals, I think you'll benefit most from one of the channelstrips you listed. I've used the Voxbox, it's amazing, huge and headroom for days! I've used pretty much every piece of retro gear except for the Powerstrip haha. ...but based on my understanding, the compressor is RS124 style and the EQ is pultec style. I have used their Revolver(RS124) and 2A3(Pultec) and if it sounds like those two, it would make an incredible vocal chain! The Powerstrip is euphonic…killer sounding. I think that not having a separate input into the comp was a little clunky…but the thing sounded amazing. |
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Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 11:44:26 GMT -6
I understand where you're coming from. It took me years to finally take the plunge and get something as expensive as the Neumann U67 RI, but I know it's a classic that I'll have for years to come. Previous to that, I never spent more than 3K on a microphone. I know the Soyuz 017 FET gets a lot of love here, and I agree that it's a great microphone. My personal experience, however, is that it's more sensitive to dynamic changes than the U67 and can get quite sibilant at the top. I wondered if the Manley Gold would make a good replacement for it, but I'm not sure that's the right microphone for the style of music that I'm doing. Hence why I am considering a U47 clone like the Flea 47. I’ve owned A Wunder CM7, both CM7-gts, Miktek, Miktek Mods, C12, multiple Pelusos, multiple Uptons, Telefunken 251, Mojave, Heiserman, the list goes on. If it’s not a vintage mic, I don’t see the point in over paying. That's a lot of microphones, and some of them like the Telefunken 251 are premium priced. After you mentioned buying the Signal Arts U48, I checked out the website. It seems like a lot of people have great things to say about their mics. The price is also significantly cheaper than some of the others I mentioned in my post. I am intrigued by the U47 model. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 23, 2024 11:46:28 GMT -6
yeah no reason to waste money upgrading any of that! the real deal version of whatever sounds best on your voice to you! There will usually be less micro resonances in the highs, less low mid distortion, and more real world headroom than many of the Chinese capsules, clones of the Chinese clones of Neumann capsules, and diy capsules. I agree with you completely. I am done with buying microphones that are not the real deal version. That's a big part of the reason that I finally bought the U67. I was actually about to pull the trigger on the UA Bock 167, but decided that if I was going to spend that much money that I might as well stretch things as far as I could and get a real U67. I couldn't be happier with my decision. When it comes to Western made mics without any compromise, would you say that the following mics fall into that category?: Neumann M149, U87 AI, Telefunken U47, Elam 251E, Manley Gold Reference Mono. Also, would a Wunder CM7 or Flea 47 also fall into that category, or is that in the Chinese made category? Just fyi…that’s not the real deal either. I’m sure it sounds great. |
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Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 11:46:38 GMT -6
I agree with you completely. I am done with buying microphones that are not the real deal version. That's a big part of the reason that I finally bought the U67. I was actually about to pull the trigger on the UA Bock 167, but decided that if I was going to spend that much money that I might as well stretch things as far as I could and get a real U67. I couldn't be happier with my decision. When it comes to Western made mics without any compromise, would you say that the following mics fall into that category?: Neumann M149, U87 AI, Telefunken U47, Elam 251E, Manley Gold Reference Mono. Also, would a Wunder CM7 or Flea 47 also fall into that category, or is that in the Chinese made category? I didn’t realize you have a u67! What more do you need? I'm not sure. I'm just wondering if I should have another high end microphone for a different tonal colour. For instance, perhaps having a different microphone for background vocals if I use the U67 for the lead vocal. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 23, 2024 11:49:12 GMT -6
I’ve owned A Wunder CM7, both CM7-gts, Miktek, Miktek Mods, C12, multiple Pelusos, multiple Uptons, Telefunken 251, Mojave, Heiserman, the list goes on. If it’s not a vintage mic, I don’t see the point in over paying. That's a lot of microphones, and some of them like the Telefunken 251 are premium priced. After you mentioned buying the Signal Arts U48, I checked out the website. It seems like a lot of people have great things to say about their mics. The price is also significantly cheaper than some of the others I mentioned in my post. I am intrigued by the U47 model. I know Chad had a hand in making the Warm 47…yes - o know it’s a Warm - but everything I got from people when they used that, I was pretty impressed. It had that 47 mid bump (in the right place.) So I’m looking forward to hearing his take without any cost cutting. |
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Post by Dan on Jun 23, 2024 11:52:27 GMT -6
I didn’t realize you have a u67! What more do you need? I'm not sure. I'm just wondering if I should have another high end microphone for a different tonal colour. For instance, perhaps having a different microphone for background vocals if I use the U67 for the lead vocal. I mean you have all this stuff. Why not just join a band and record them too with a bunch of dynamics? If you are not 100% satisfied with your current mics on your voice, I would try other stuff and not be afraid to sell off what you have. I am like this with guitar mics but current enamored with the cheap ATM650 that’s like an SM57 but better. No different tone really at the expense of 4x the price and more fragile like an M201. No dumb scoop like Audix i5. It’s an SM57 but better. |
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Post by recordingengineer on Jun 23, 2024 12:07:45 GMT -6
The only thing I see lacking here is compression. For me, a great compressor on lead vocals was a game-changer!
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Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 12:12:58 GMT -6
I'm not sure. I'm just wondering if I should have another high end microphone for a different tonal colour. For instance, perhaps having a different microphone for background vocals if I use the U67 for the lead vocal. I mean you have all this stuff. Why not just join a band and record them too with a bunch of dynamics? If you are not 100% satisfied with your current mics on your voice, I would try other stuff and not be afraid to sell off what you have. I am like this with guitar mics but current enamored with the cheap ATM650 that’s like an SM57 but better. No different tone really at the expense of 4x the price and more fragile like an M201. No dumb scoop like Audix i5. It’s an SM57 but better. If only I had the time for a band....haha. I have thought about someday maybe opening up a boutique studio for vocal overdubs, so I can use make some money back on all this gear. |
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Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 12:15:10 GMT -6
The only thing I see lacking here is compression. For me, a great compressor on lead vocals was a game-changer! Agreed! I currently have two compressors in the 500 series format. I have the Pete's Place BAC 500 for 1176 style compression and the Cranesong Falcon for more optical compression. I like them both, but it has not stopped me from thinking about getting an LA2A, CL1B or 1176. Do you think it would be worthwhile getting a different compressor other than the BAC 500 and Falcon? If so, what would you recommend? |
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Post by brenta on Jun 23, 2024 13:08:32 GMT -6
I know this is a gear forum and we all never have enough, but I think you might be set on gear. You have a studio that would make most people drool. If you were a commercial studio recording a variety of different artists you could definitely justify buying some more stuff. But since you’re just recording yourself, I feel like you can “get by” with the U67, Shannon Rhoades Miktek, and Soyuz 017. You’re set on room treatment, monitors, outboard, and you take vocal lessons. It’s hard to find a weakness in your studio.
In the end it’s the songs that matter, and those songs need marketing to get them heard. Maybe put the money towards getting some proven pros to help you co-write some songs and then put some money into marketing your music so it gets heard?
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Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 13:23:39 GMT -6
I know this is a gear forum and we all never have enough, but I think you might be set on gear. You have a studio that would make most people drool. If you were a commercial studio recording a variety of different artists you could definitely justify buying some more stuff. But since you’re just recording yourself, I feel like you can “get by” with the U67, Shannon Rhoades Miktek, and Soyuz 017. You’re set on room treatment, monitors, outboard, and you take vocal lessons. It’s hard to find a weakness in your studio. In the end it’s the songs that matter, and those songs need marketing to get them heard. Maybe put the money towards getting some proven pros to help you co-write some songs and then put some money into marketing your music so it gets heard? That's a great point. I'm also the first to admit that when G.A.S. strikes me it can be a hard thing to shake. I suddenly start wondering if I should start selling some of my existing gear and buying something else for a sonic improvement. It's also a fun process learning what works and doesn't work. In the end, however, it's all about the songs and the performance. |
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Post by sean on Jun 23, 2024 13:29:22 GMT -6
I’m also of the opinion that you are probably set, but if there are things you aren’t utilizing I like your idea of selling those items and getting something else that you might enjoy more. Obviously you feel like you are missing out on something or else you wouldn’t be looking.
I think a Manley Gold would be a really good compliment to your current arsenal of microphones, and if you are thinking of buying second hand they are a relatively good value compared to new.
Another option would be the Chandler REDD microphone. As someone who has a U67 Reissue as well, it’s a really great compliment to that microphone. But, based on your description of the music you do, I don’t love it on “loud” vocals. But anything that needs some air, it’s perfect.
For a channel strip, unless you need additional preamps, I think the Summit Audio TLA-100 is the perfect tracking compressor for vocals. Just a touch does a lot, it’s low maintenance compared to an all tube circuit, and again can often be found at a reasonable rate second hand. It’s the only compressor I use every session. Also works well on bass.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 23, 2024 14:27:49 GMT -6
I’m also of the opinion that you are probably set, but if there are things you aren’t utilizing I like your idea of selling those items and getting something else that you might enjoy more. Obviously you feel like you are missing out on something or else you wouldn’t be looking. I think a Manley Gold would be a really good compliment to your current arsenal of microphones, and if you are thinking of buying second hand they are a relatively good value compared to new. Another option would be the Chandler REDD microphone. As someone who has a U67 Reissue as well, it’s a really great compliment to that microphone. But, based on your description of the music you do, I don’t love it on “loud” vocals. But anything that needs some air, it’s perfect. For a channel strip, unless you need additional preamps, I think the Summit Audio TLA-100 is the perfect tracking compressor for vocals. Just a touch does a lot, it’s low maintenance compared to an all tube circuit, and again can often be found at a reasonable rate second hand. It’s the only compressor I use every session. Also works well on bass. Wait a second Sean we can sell this stuff? I thought the unwritten social contract was we would take it to our graves😁 |
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Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 14:36:53 GMT -6
I’m also of the opinion that you are probably set, but if there are things you aren’t utilizing I like your idea of selling those items and getting something else that you might enjoy more. Obviously you feel like you are missing out on something or else you wouldn’t be looking. I think a Manley Gold would be a really good compliment to your current arsenal of microphones, and if you are thinking of buying second hand they are a relatively good value compared to new. Another option would be the Chandler REDD microphone. As someone who has a U67 Reissue as well, it’s a really great compliment to that microphone. But, based on your description of the music you do, I don’t love it on “loud” vocals. But anything that needs some air, it’s perfect. For a channel strip, unless you need additional preamps, I think the Summit Audio TLA-100 is the perfect tracking compressor for vocals. Just a touch does a lot, it’s low maintenance compared to an all tube circuit, and again can often be found at a reasonable rate second hand. It’s the only compressor I use every session. Also works well on bass. Thanks for the suggestion on the TLA-100! I’ve heard great things about that unit. I believe that Dave Hill may have designed it. I wonder how close it sounds to the Falcon? Thanks also for suggesting the Chandler REDD Mic. I’m not a huge fan of the Chandler TG microphone, but I hear the REDD is on another level. My only concern with the Manley Gold and other microphones in that C12 family is that it won’t work on more driven tracks. For softer, more nuanced material, however, I think it would probably sound amazing and detailed! This is what has led me to wonder if a 47 style microphone might be a better complement to the U67. However, it’s hard to say how much different it would be from my 67. |
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Post by chessparov on Jun 23, 2024 14:43:55 GMT -6
Just skimming.
But...
There's something with creatively "screwing around", with the extensive gear list you already.
Both listening to recorded Vocal/Instrument Practice.
And "on the fly".
Even just "singing along" with other recorded singer(s).
Chris
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Post by ab101 on Jun 23, 2024 14:57:17 GMT -6
The only thing I see lacking here is compression. For me, a great compressor on lead vocals was a game-changer! Agreed! I currently have two compressors in the 500 series format. I have the Pete's Place BAC 500 for 1176 style compression and the Cranesong Falcon for more optical compression. I like them both, but it has not stopped me from thinking about getting an LA2A, CL1B or 1176. Do you think it would be worthwhile getting a different compressor other than the BAC 500 and Falcon? If so, what would you recommend? You have two great comps. I would focus more on other needs. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 23, 2024 15:13:17 GMT -6
I’m with the rent a studio with a good mike locker vote: you could bring some of your ob and really hear the mikes: curious have you ever tried a 251 or Sony 800 or the Stam clone?
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Post by notneeson on Jun 23, 2024 15:13:50 GMT -6
Since you're primarily recording vocals, I think you'll benefit most from one of the channelstrips you listed. I've used the Voxbox, it's amazing, huge and headroom for days! I've used pretty much every piece of retro gear except for the Powerstrip haha. ...but based on my understanding, the compressor is RS124 style and the EQ is pultec style. I have used their Revolver(RS124) and 2A3(Pultec) and if it sounds like those two, it would make an incredible vocal chain! I've been hearing great things about the Powerstrip, and the Pultec style EQ is exactly what I'm looking for. That's a big part of the reason that I was interested in the Tube-Tech MEC1A unit. I just find that my U67 Reissue sounds best through my current tube chain of Cranesong Syren - Cranesong Falcon - Hilo. Dave Hill was a genius and the Cranesong units sound great. I just wonder if I could do even better with the Manley Vox Box, Powerstrip or Tube-Tech MEC1A rack units. What do you think? FWIW the Tube Tech PE 1C is a great EQ on everything, especially vocals. Haven’t seen a MEC1A in the wild. The PE is nice for lifting the top on a 67. |
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Post by crillemannen on Jun 23, 2024 15:17:57 GMT -6
Personally I don't like the U67 on vocals. It's my least favourite Neumann of the famous ones.
For a classic vocal chain I'd go with a U87 vintage, Neve --> 1176 --> CL1B
Now that I've owned and used most of the classics I'd say if you want diversity I would have one mic with an K67 capsule and one with M7/K47. That will cover everything.I'm not a huge fan of the 251 either, I prefer Neumann by far.
But.. its all about the music and if you're happy with the 67re use it and make music. Gear hunting will get you nowhere especially if you already have quality gear.
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Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 15:26:01 GMT -6
I’m with the rent a studio with a good mike locker vote: you could bring some of your ob and really hear the mikes: curious have you ever tried a 251 or Sony 800 or the Stam clone? The best microphone at the highest end studio out here is a U87 AI. I have never tried a 251, Sony 800 or Stam clone, but I would like to. I’ve heard a lot of great things about Stam, but I know the shipping delays can be an issue. Honestly, I find the whole clone market pretty overwhelming because there are so many different options between Stam, Flea, Beazneez ect. Is Stam considered to the best of the clones on this forum? |
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Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 15:28:42 GMT -6
I've been hearing great things about the Powerstrip, and the Pultec style EQ is exactly what I'm looking for. That's a big part of the reason that I was interested in the Tube-Tech MEC1A unit. I just find that my U67 Reissue sounds best through my current tube chain of Cranesong Syren - Cranesong Falcon - Hilo. Dave Hill was a genius and the Cranesong units sound great. I just wonder if I could do even better with the Manley Vox Box, Powerstrip or Tube-Tech MEC1A rack units. What do you think? FWIW the Tube Tech PE 1C is a great EQ on everything, especially vocals. Haven’t seen a MEC1A in the wild. The PE is nice for lifting the top on a 67. That’s exactly how I was thinking of using it in conjunction with the U67. I find the U67 a bit dull compared to the Soyuz, but it does take EQ well. The only piece of outboard I don’t have is an EQ, so perhaps that’s the direction I should go. I’d have all bases covered then. |
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Post by wiz on Jun 23, 2024 15:33:44 GMT -6
Post some music for us to hear……then I could give you some advice……
Cheers
Wiz
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jun 23, 2024 15:36:08 GMT -6
I’m with the rent a studio with a good mike locker vote: you could bring some of your ob and really hear the mikes: curious have you ever tried a 251 or Sony 800 or the Stam clone? The best microphone at the highest end studio out here is a U87 AI. I have never tried a 251, Sony 800 or Stam clone, but I would like to. I’ve heard a lot of great things about Stam, but I know the shipping delays can be an issue. Honestly, I find the whole clone market pretty overwhelming because there are so many different options between Stam, Flea, Beazneez ect. Is Stam considered to the best of the clones on this forum? Ask BradD one of the most enlightening things he ever did on a trip to Nashville was rent some time at Blackbird and requested all the classics. If the mic is primarily just for you, you have a huge advantage. |
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Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 15:38:18 GMT -6
Personally I don't like the U67 on vocals. It's my least favourite Neumann of the famous ones. For a classic vocal chain I'd go with a U87 vintage, Neve --> 1176 --> CL1B Now that I've owned and used most of the classics I'd say if you want diversity I would have one mic with an K67 capsule and one with M7/K47. That will cover everything.I'm not a huge fan of the 251 either, I prefer Neumann by far. But.. its all about the music and if you're happy with the 67re use it and make music. Gear hunting will get you nowhere especially if you already have quality gear. Thanks for commenting! I’m a big fan of your YouTube channel by the way. In fact, I just watched your video on the Manley Ref C microphone yesterday. Since I already have the K67 capsule covered with the U67 RI, what mic(s) would you suggest with the M7/K47 capsule? |
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Post by recordingengineer on Jun 23, 2024 16:07:43 GMT -6
Agreed! I currently have two compressors in the 500 series format. I have the Pete's Place BAC 500 for 1176 style compression and the Cranesong Falcon for more optical compression. I like them both, but it has not stopped me from thinking about getting an LA2A, CL1B or 1176. Do you think it would be worthwhile getting a different compressor other than the BAC 500 and Falcon? If so, what would you recommend? You have two great comps. I would focus more on other needs. Maybe. Maybe not. For me, if the difference between with and without on lead vocals isn’t game-changing, then not. Obviously, that’s assuming I’m not just looking to reduce the dynamic-range and that’s not what I’m talking about here. |
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