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Post by crillemannen on Jun 24, 2024 7:04:39 GMT -6
Those reference are not really relevant to todays music if you don't want to chase that particular tone. You should base your opinion on your own experience. I know you have, but to repeat whatever internet says isn't necessarily the right thing for you or the OP in this case. The M49 sounds so good I can't really imagine anyone would prefer the U47 over the M49 I think you might be defining "today's music" a bit narrowly. Don't you really just mean the music that you yourself are interested in? There are lots of viable and innovative genres that are expanding on the frameworks that The Beatles laid down, for example. Does that really need to be said? I do like allot of different genres and styles. I don't think anyone under 50 years old want to sound like the Beatles though. It sounds dated. I can't say that the classic bands are overrated because like you said they laid down the framework but using it in an argument like Chessparov (although I'm sure he was half kidding) just feels tired. Sometimes the vintage microphones lived up to the hype sometimes it was a letdown.
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Post by drumster on Jun 24, 2024 8:11:34 GMT -6
Diclaimer, haven’t read through the thread. If I were in your position with such an excellent mic locker,, I’d buy the Powerstrip. If you do look closer at a 47 clone, maybe consider adding the H47Tube to your shortlist? And I had an M149, was not a fan at all, but I’m not a fan of bright in general. Thanks for your advice. The Powerstrip is a real possibility as I've heard fantastic things about it. I'm just wondering how the EQ would compare to something like the Tube-Tech PE1C.
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Post by drumster on Jun 24, 2024 8:14:19 GMT -6
Thanks for commenting! I’m a big fan of your YouTube channel by the way. In fact, I just watched your video on the Manley Ref C microphone yesterday. Since I already have the K67 capsule covered with the U67 RI, what mic(s) would you suggest with the M7/K47 capsule? I don't understand the obsession with the U47 either. I just got an M49 and that microphone is amazing on softer music. A little bit more transparent aka balanced then the U47. You get that larger then life sound of the 47 without the bloated characteristics. I haven't tried any clones of the M49 but all the bigger popular brands do one. I also really liked the GAP 800G and I'm sure the Stam is great. The thing is if possible demo a few microphones and see what you like. It's subjective and you'll also get a sense of how your U67re performs. Good luck! Thanks! I haven't heard a lot about the M49, but I like the fact that it's a genuine Neumann. Perhaps that would be a nice contrast to my U67 RI, especially for more intimate and softer songs. In your experience, what preamp does it pair best with>
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Post by drumster on Jun 24, 2024 8:17:58 GMT -6
Read the first two pages and haven't seen this yet but I'm wondering... what problem are you trying to solve? There's no problem to solve in this scenario. I'm just looking for some input on my next studio investment!
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Post by chessparov on Jun 24, 2024 8:52:20 GMT -6
We have NO problem. $pending your money! I really need to spend more time on testing out the 49. Including the quality alternatives like Beesneez and FLEA. Along with the Neumann-of course. Honestly, I do get a little concerned that my supposedly;) "Smooth" voice will induce sleep paralysis. Despite my Beato-ish 47 and Classic Pop/Rock/Soul leanings. Chris P.S. Ben's U67/269 version is certainly comparable to the mighty U67. At least in my book. Which reminds me of a joke.
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Post by teejay on Jun 24, 2024 8:52:23 GMT -6
That's a lot of microphones, and some of them like the Telefunken 251 are premium priced. After you mentioned buying the Signal Arts U48, I checked out the website. It seems like a lot of people have great things to say about their mics. The price is also significantly cheaper than some of the others I mentioned in my post. I am intrigued by the U47 model. I know Chad had a hand in making the Warm 47…yes - o know it’s a Warm - but everything I got from people when they used that, I was pretty impressed. It had that 47 mid bump (in the right place.) So I’m looking forward to hearing his take without any cost cutting. First, I say this with all due respect, but I keep seeing Chad's company referenced as Signal Arts...plural. It is Signal Art Electronics. I think for his sake it is beneficial to reference it correctly. Chad did primarily design the Warm 47, however, the reason he offers an upgrade to that mic is because Warm compromised on the components used. He's pulled out the stops in his own Signal Art edition, and offers three capsule options.
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Post by ironinthepath on Jun 24, 2024 8:54:48 GMT -6
I’ve gone down the mic rabbit hole, have U67ri, Heiserman H47t (both capsule options), and recently bought a used Wunder CM7 (w/Suprema mod) locally. This is in addition to Upton 251 and C12, amongst others. I honestly have no business owning mics of this caliber or at least not this “heavy” of a collection as a home recording enthusiast: I don’t record enough to have heard them on such a multitude of voices and sources to choose an “obvious” winner on the average. Having said that, they’re all capable of super polished and professional tones, in my opinion. The 67ri is up there at the top of the list for versatility though and I can’t imagine it being “crushed” by any of the mics (but I also think the 87ai is great mic, even though they’re are plenty of “haters”).
Main point: new gear is always fun and can be inspiring, so I’m all for adding more mics but I’m just pointing out that you already have one of “ the big boys “ for a reason…you’ll likely love having another option in the same “league” but it’s unlikely to knock your socks off by comparison just because you’ve already crossed into the territory.
The Hilo is definitely not a hindrance in any way (totally a Lynx fan myself, I have no plan to ever “upgrade”), but maybe one thing I’d recommend: consider trying an Aurora Audio GTQC if you can. I know @johnkenn had bad luck with the company a long while back, but I’ve had mostly the opposite: I’ve found that the pre/opto comp on that are really really nice for vocals and all in one simple box. I know it’s not tube, but totally worth a try….pairs really well with all my mics the mics I have, aside from ribbon mics better paired with higher input impedance options. Might just be my desert island signal path.
I haven’t yet tried the Shelford, but on my radar too. The samples I’ve heard of the pre are really nice, but I’ve heard mixed reviews about the included diode comp. Hope to try myself someday. -Chris
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Post by crillemannen on Jun 24, 2024 9:23:19 GMT -6
I don't understand the obsession with the U47 either. I just got an M49 and that microphone is amazing on softer music. A little bit more transparent aka balanced then the U47. You get that larger then life sound of the 47 without the bloated characteristics. I haven't tried any clones of the M49 but all the bigger popular brands do one. I also really liked the GAP 800G and I'm sure the Stam is great. The thing is if possible demo a few microphones and see what you like. It's subjective and you'll also get a sense of how your U67re performs. Good luck! Thanks! I haven't heard a lot about the M49, but I like the fact that it's a genuine Neumann. Perhaps that would be a nice contrast to my U67 RI, especially for more intimate and softer songs. In your experience, what preamp does it pair best with> Ohh then you're in for a treat. I only have an vintage but the Reissue seems to sound wonderful to! I have an AT-3 from Analogue Tube which is awesome. It has a very nice low-end, I have a whole episode on it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 24, 2024 9:27:00 GMT -6
I know Chad had a hand in making the Warm 47…yes - o know it’s a Warm - but everything I got from people when they used that, I was pretty impressed. It had that 47 mid bump (in the right place.) So I’m looking forward to hearing his take without any cost cutting. First, I say this with all due respect, but I keep seeing Chad's company referenced as Signal Arts...plural. It is Signal Art Electronics. I think for his sake it is beneficial to reference it correctly. Chad did primarily design the Warm 47, however, the reason he offers an upgrade to that mic is because Warm compromised on the components used. He's pulled out the stops in his own Signal Art edition, and offers three capsule options. I stand corrected. Never noticed.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 24, 2024 9:28:23 GMT -6
I’ve gone down the mic rabbit hole, have U67ri, Heiserman H47t (both capsule options), and recently bought a used Wunder CM7 (w/Suprema mod) locally. This is in addition to Upton 251 and C12, amongst others. I honestly have no business owning mics of this caliber or at least not this “heavy” of a collection as a home recording enthusiast: I don’t record enough to have heard them on such a multitude of voices and sources to choose an “obvious” winner on the average. Having said that, they’re all capable of super polished and professional tones, in my opinion. The 67ri is up there at the top of the list for versatility though and I can’t imagine it being “crushed” by any of the mics (but I also think the 87ai is great mic, even though they’re are plenty of “haters”). Main point: new gear is always fun and can be inspiring, so I’m all for adding more mics but I’m just pointing out that you already have one of “ the big boys “ for a reason…you’ll likely love having another option in the same “league” but it’s unlikely to knock your socks off by comparison just because you’ve already crossed into the territory. The Hilo is definitely not a hindrance in any way (totally a Lynx fan myself, I have no plan to ever “upgrade”), but maybe one thing I’d recommend: consider trying an Aurora Audio GTQC if you can. I know @johnkenn had bad luck with the company a long while back, but I’ve had mostly the opposite: I’ve found that the pre/opto comp on that are really really nice for vocals and all in one simple box. I know it’s not tube, but totally worth a try….pairs really well with all my mics the mics I have, aside from ribbon mics better paired with higher input impedance options. Might just be my desert island signal path. I haven’t yet tried the Shelford, but on my radar too. The samples I’ve heard of the pre are really nice, but I’ve heard mixed reviews about the included diode comp. Hope to try myself someday. -Chris They’re great. When they work.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jun 24, 2024 9:39:33 GMT -6
I think you might be defining "today's music" a bit narrowly. Don't you really just mean the music that you yourself are interested in? There are lots of viable and innovative genres that are expanding on the frameworks that The Beatles laid down, for example. Does that really need to be said? I do like allot of different genres and styles. I don't think anyone under 50 years old want to sound like the Beatles though. It sounds dated. I can't say that the classic bands are overrated because like you said they laid down the framework but using it in an argument like Chessparov (although I'm sure he was half kidding) just feels tired. Sometimes the vintage microphones lived up to the hype sometimes it was a letdown. Fair enough. And I share your feeling on the u67 (at least I seem to remember you're not a huge fan). Years ago I booked a studio in part because they had a vintage 67 only to find out that it did nothing for my voice. Actually, it did do something, it made it sound worse than every other mic we tried. (This was a great session and a great studio though... largely because I had a producer savvy enough to use his ears and not his sunk cost fallacy.)
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Post by ironinthepath on Jun 24, 2024 9:39:43 GMT -6
I have three GTQC units (none bought new), they all work :-) but I have read about issues others have had.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jun 24, 2024 9:41:20 GMT -6
Read the first two pages and haven't seen this yet but I'm wondering... what problem are you trying to solve? There's no problem to solve in this scenario. I'm just looking for some input on my next studio investment! Fair enough. Maybe a better way to say it would be "what are you trying to get?" You list a lot of interesting gear options and choices, but it's hard to tell what your objective is. In this case it's particularly tricky because you seem to have every base covered. Maybe whatever you're looking for can't be found in a microphone or a channel strip. But maybe it can. So, again... what are you trying to do?
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jun 24, 2024 9:44:46 GMT -6
I don't understand the obsession with the U47 either. I just got an M49 and that microphone is amazing on softer music. A little bit more transparent aka balanced then the U47. You get that larger then life sound of the 47 without the bloated characteristics. I haven't tried any clones of the M49 but all the bigger popular brands do one. I also really liked the GAP 800G and I'm sure the Stam is great. The thing is if possible demo a few microphones and see what you like. It's subjective and you'll also get a sense of how your U67re performs. Good luck! Thanks! I haven't heard a lot about the M49, but I like the fact that it's a genuine Neumann. Perhaps that would be a nice contrast to my U67 RI, especially for more intimate and softer songs. In your experience, what preamp does it pair best with> M49 is stone cold classic. Basically everything made at Columbia in NYC from the mid 50's through the mid 60's used this. Miles Davis. Dylan. Simon & Garfunkel. You might not know it but your ears know it.
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Post by drumster on Jun 24, 2024 10:32:56 GMT -6
Thanks! I haven't heard a lot about the M49, but I like the fact that it's a genuine Neumann. Perhaps that would be a nice contrast to my U67 RI, especially for more intimate and softer songs. In your experience, what preamp does it pair best with> Ohh then you're in for a treat. I only have an vintage but the Reissue seems to sound wonderful to! I have an AT-3 from Analogue Tube which is awesome. It has a very nice low-end, I have a whole episode on it. That's great to hear! I'm definitely going to look into the M49. In your opinion, would this microphone only work on softer material, or would it be flexible enough to work on harder, classic rock material like the U47?
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Post by drumster on Jun 24, 2024 10:39:53 GMT -6
I’ve gone down the mic rabbit hole, have U67ri, Heiserman H47t (both capsule options), and recently bought a used Wunder CM7 (w/Suprema mod) locally. This is in addition to Upton 251 and C12, amongst others. I honestly have no business owning mics of this caliber or at least not this “heavy” of a collection as a home recording enthusiast: I don’t record enough to have heard them on such a multitude of voices and sources to choose an “obvious” winner on the average. Having said that, they’re all capable of super polished and professional tones, in my opinion. The 67ri is up there at the top of the list for versatility though and I can’t imagine it being “crushed” by any of the mics (but I also think the 87ai is great mic, even though they’re are plenty of “haters”). Main point: new gear is always fun and can be inspiring, so I’m all for adding more mics but I’m just pointing out that you already have one of “ the big boys “ for a reason…you’ll likely love having another option in the same “league” but it’s unlikely to knock your socks off by comparison just because you’ve already crossed into the territory. The Hilo is definitely not a hindrance in any way (totally a Lynx fan myself, I have no plan to ever “upgrade”), but maybe one thing I’d recommend: consider trying an Aurora Audio GTQC if you can. I know @johnkenn had bad luck with the company a long while back, but I’ve had mostly the opposite: I’ve found that the pre/opto comp on that are really really nice for vocals and all in one simple box. I know it’s not tube, but totally worth a try….pairs really well with all my mics the mics I have, aside from ribbon mics better paired with higher input impedance options. Might just be my desert island signal path. I haven’t yet tried the Shelford, but on my radar too. The samples I’ve heard of the pre are really nice, but I’ve heard mixed reviews about the included diode comp. Hope to try myself someday. -Chris That's an incredible collection of microphones! Honestly, that sounds a lot like the path I could easily go down. I must admit that I do enjoy the process of researching and acquiring new gear. Between the U67 RI, and the Soyuz -17 FET, I probably have enough quality microphones for both lead and background vocals. I just find the Soyuz a bit sibilant, which is what has motivated me to consider something else to replace it.
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Post by drumster on Jun 24, 2024 10:42:54 GMT -6
There's no problem to solve in this scenario. I'm just looking for some input on my next studio investment! Fair enough. Maybe a better way to say it would be "what are you trying to get?" You list a lot of interesting gear options and choices, but it's hard to tell what your objective is. In this case it's particularly tricky because you seem to have every base covered. Maybe whatever you're looking for can't be found in a microphone or a channel strip. But maybe it can. So, again... what are you trying to do? The best way I can describe it is that I'm trying to build a set of classic, quality audio tools that will handle any type of music that I create now and into the future.
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Post by geoff738 on Jun 24, 2024 10:51:40 GMT -6
Fair enough. Maybe a better way to say it would be "what are you trying to get?" You list a lot of interesting gear options and choices, but it's hard to tell what your objective is. In this case it's particularly tricky because you seem to have every base covered. Maybe whatever you're looking for can't be found in a microphone or a channel strip. But maybe it can. So, again... what are you trying to do? The best way I can describe it is that I'm trying to build a set of classic, quality audio tools that will handle any type of music that I create now and into the future. What a great problem to have! My take on the M49 is based on a single afternoon at Grant Ave. many moons ago with my friend singing into it. From that day forward it became my gold standard for vocal mics. Doesn’t mean it will work on your voice though. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by ironinthepath on Jun 24, 2024 11:06:43 GMT -6
In terms of sibilance, I think the particular singer / location (mic technique) can also play a major role - if you're just recording yourself you'll probably eventually find one vocal mic that you typically prefer and then probably no need for large mic locker (but it's nice to have!).
Honestly, I don't plan to keep this large of a mic collection forever, just because I can't justify it - but with my job I only get sporadic chances to record, often late at night, so if I want to really get to know these mics and have adequate time with them, they either have to be in the collection for a fairly long timeframe or it just doesn't happen. For example, I have some friends that run commercial studios near where I live, but there's no way I can just pop in whenever I want and toy with the mic collection at midnight or whatever (even if price is right), based on my work schedule. In any case, I'll have to be a mature adult someday and pick a couple to keep, sell the rest to support expenses (kids college, etc.). For now though, I'm enjoying it while I can!
Small word of warning: having too much gear tends to be a distraction from the creative process, instead of writing/tracking it's easy to get sucked into gear comparisons.
-Chris
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Post by crillemannen on Jun 24, 2024 11:11:05 GMT -6
Ohh then you're in for a treat. I only have an vintage but the Reissue seems to sound wonderful to! I have an AT-3 from Analogue Tube which is awesome. It has a very nice low-end, I have a whole episode on it. That's great to hear! I'm definitely going to look into the M49. In your opinion, would this microphone only work on softer material, or would it be flexible enough to work on harder, classic rock material like the U47? I think it will work on pretty much anything. It's just that sometimes you want that K67 presence which the K47/M7 doesn't have. I have to experiment a bit more myself, I haven't used the m49 that much yet but for acoustic material it's absolutely wonderful. I'd take the Neumann tone over the 251 any day of the week though, on my voice that is!
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Post by brenta on Jun 24, 2024 21:37:32 GMT -6
I'd take the Neumann tone over the 251 any day of the week though, on my voice that is! Interesting, because it looks like you’re standing in front of a 251 in your profile picture
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Post by drumster on Oct 1, 2024 9:02:45 GMT -6
It’s been a few months since I last posted, so I thought it was time to come back and update this thread. After much consideration and trying some different gear in my studio, I purchased a Pultec EQP-500-X, Tree Audio Branch II Channel Strip, Vintage UREI 1176 LN Revision F, and a Universal Audio LA-2A Reissue.
Adding the Branch II Channel Strip was a revelation for me. Previously, I had been using all 500 series gear, and when I added the Tree Audio Branch my vocal tracks sounded bigger, more open and 3D in comparison. This motivated me to move towards full size rack gear for my studio.
The LA-2A into an 1176 is a classic signal chain for vocals, and is the sound I’ve been chasing for the past 15 years. I bought the Pultec EQP-500-X to open up the top end of my Neumann U67 Reissue, which it does a fantastic job of. With that said, I’ve been impressed with the Baxandall style EQ on the Branch channel strip.
At this point, I’m considering a couple other gear options, but I will start another thread for that discussion.
Thanks to everyone for their help!
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Post by chessparov on Oct 1, 2024 12:19:31 GMT -6
Clips? Thanks! Chris
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Post by yotonic on Oct 1, 2024 19:06:16 GMT -6
You are all set with that chain. I have something similar but all vintage. For me it’s only about writing and inspiration from good instruments and a great vocal chain. It’s almost crazy to record anything at home today except vocals when you can go into a world class studio for the price of an NFL game and drinks. Recording at home has always been a compromise and a way to save money (unless it’s for fun). Today if you have something worth recording support your local pro studio
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Post by poppaflavor on Oct 2, 2024 4:36:14 GMT -6
You are all set with that chain. I have something similar but all vintage. For me it’s only about writing and inspiration from good instruments and a great vocal chain. It’s almost crazy to record anything at home today except vocals when you can go into a world class studio for the price of an NFL game and drinks. Recording at home has always been a compromise and a way to save money (unless it’s for fun). Today if you have something worth recording support your local pro studio It's a great perspective. I recently came to that conclusion and am switching up the game plan to do rough vocal and instrument tracking at the home studio and then actual record and tracking outboard production at a local studio I found is only a couple miles from my house. I met with the owner/engineer and had a great consult. Gonna be a fruitful interaction I feel. It was a relief to come to this path, I was about to enter the rabbit hole of real-deal acoustic treatment throughout the space and it was overwhelming. Now I can focus on crappy sounding recordings at home while getting the feel and sound right instead of reading for hours on rockwool frequency response (ugh).
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