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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 23, 2024 16:24:41 GMT -6
I’m with the rent a studio with a good mike locker vote: you could bring some of your ob and really hear the mikes: curious have you ever tried a 251 or Sony 800 or the Stam clone? The best microphone at the highest end studio out here is a U87 AI. I have never tried a 251, Sony 800 or Stam clone, but I would like to. I’ve heard a lot of great things about Stam, but I know the shipping delays can be an issue. Honestly, I find the whole clone market pretty overwhelming because there are so many different options between Stam, Flea, Beazneez ect. Is Stam considered to the best of the clones on this forum? All fair comment: well Josh is a gearhead too. If you reach out to him directly, he might consider letting you demo a mike? I have his 67 mkii and while I really like it, my buddy has the 800g mki and it’s got some secret sauce on vocals for sure. I think Josh is making the mkiii now: from what you describe, you might be pleasantly surprised by the 800. If I had the dough, I’d buy one after using my friend’s on a song a few months ago .
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Post by geoff738 on Jun 23, 2024 16:32:58 GMT -6
The only thing I see lacking here is compression. For me, a great compressor on lead vocals was a game-changer! Agreed! I currently have two compressors in the 500 series format. I have the Pete's Place BAC 500 for 1176 style compression and the Cranesong Falcon for more optical compression. I like them both, but it has not stopped me from thinking about getting an LA2A, CL1B or 1176. Do you think it would be worthwhile getting a different compressor other than the BAC 500 and Falcon? If so, what would you recommend? Well, you like Dave Hill’s stuff so maybe a Trakker, or the one he put out under his own name. Iirc the latter isn’t even all that pricey. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by christophert on Jun 23, 2024 17:04:45 GMT -6
Personally I don't like the U67 on vocals. It's my least favourite Neumann of the famous ones. For a classic vocal chain I'd go with a U87 vintage, Neve --> 1176 --> CL1B Now that I've owned and used most of the classics I'd say if you want diversity I would have one mic with an K67 capsule and one with M7/K47. That will cover everything.I'm not a huge fan of the 251 either, I prefer Neumann by far. But.. its all about the music and if you're happy with the 67re use it and make music. Gear hunting will get you nowhere especially if you already have quality gear. Thanks for commenting! I’m a big fan of your YouTube channel by the way. In fact, I just watched your video on the Manley Ref C microphone yesterday. Since I already have the K67 capsule covered with the U67 RI, what mic(s) would you suggest with the M7/K47 capsule? I would seriously try out a Heiserman 47 as a different vocal mic to the 67. I have both, and the Heiserman wins out nearly every time over the 67 (over everything), sometimes a vintage 87 or AEA 44 is more suitable for certain styles of music. The Manley is a very bright microphone. IMO - the Sony would be better if you are looking for a bright mic.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 23, 2024 17:14:29 GMT -6
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Post by mike on Jun 23, 2024 17:23:15 GMT -6
Mic. Always a mic over outboard. The right mic on the right source can often negate the need for a lot of stuff later in the chain. I'm similar to most of your background description in the original post and also have a 67 RI. I quoted smashlord here because I agree with the mic over outboard POV. While you clearly have enough great gear to more than get the job done, I would strongly recommend you follow your instincts that you mentioned and try and demo a Flea or Wunder 47 if possible to see how a quality 47 type fits your voice. There are allot of great mic's but when a source/voice finds the best mic fit, it can take it up another level. Based on the type of material you mentioned I'd suggest you try and demo a Flea 47 with their F47 capsule, and not the F7 cap. While I have a 67RI and it's a great mic, I also have a Flea 47 with F47 capsule that sounds great on male vocals IME and many would prefer it. Hopefully you can demo either to see.
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Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 17:49:23 GMT -6
The best microphone at the highest end studio out here is a U87 AI. I have never tried a 251, Sony 800 or Stam clone, but I would like to. I’ve heard a lot of great things about Stam, but I know the shipping delays can be an issue. Honestly, I find the whole clone market pretty overwhelming because there are so many different options between Stam, Flea, Beazneez ect. Is Stam considered to the best of the clones on this forum? All fair comment: well Josh is a gearhead too. If you reach out to him directly, he might consider letting you demo a mike? I have his 67 mkii and while I really like it, my buddy has the 800g mki and it’s got some secret sauce on vocals for sure. I think Josh is making the mkiii now: from what you describe, you might be pleasantly surprised by the 800. If I had the dough, I’d buy one after using my friend’s on a song a few months ago . Great advice. I'll keep that in mind. How close is the Stam 800G to the real Sony?
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Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 17:53:18 GMT -6
Agreed! I currently have two compressors in the 500 series format. I have the Pete's Place BAC 500 for 1176 style compression and the Cranesong Falcon for more optical compression. I like them both, but it has not stopped me from thinking about getting an LA2A, CL1B or 1176. Do you think it would be worthwhile getting a different compressor other than the BAC 500 and Falcon? If so, what would you recommend? Well, you like Dave Hill’s stuff so maybe a Trakker, or the one he put out under his own name. Iirc the latter isn’t even all that pricey. Cheers, Geoff A Trakker would be great as well. I think the other unit you're referring to is the Titan Compressor. It looks like those are being made to order on Sweetwater, but there are very long delays with Cranesong and Dave Hill products. On that note, I heard that there are people waiting for Avocets since 2019.
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Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 17:56:50 GMT -6
Thanks for commenting! I’m a big fan of your YouTube channel by the way. In fact, I just watched your video on the Manley Ref C microphone yesterday. Since I already have the K67 capsule covered with the U67 RI, what mic(s) would you suggest with the M7/K47 capsule? I would seriously try out a Heiserman 47 as a different vocal mic to the 67. I have both, and the Heiserman wins out nearly every time over the 67 (over everything), sometimes a vintage 87 or AEA 44 is more suitable for certain styles of music. The Manley is a very bright microphone. IMO - the Sony would be better if you are looking for a bright mic.
Wow! That's a strong endorsement. I would be more than willing to demo the Heiserman 47, but I don't know how I would make that happen living up here in Canada. It seems as though I would have buy one of these 47 clones and hope it worked out. The Flea 47 also gets a lot of praise on the audio forums, but I've also heard that it's a pretty dark sounding microphone. With that said, I think a 47 is a microphone that is more suited to rock music than the Manley Gold.
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Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 18:02:01 GMT -6
Mic. Always a mic over outboard. The right mic on the right source can often negate the need for a lot of stuff later in the chain. I'm similar to most of your background description in the original post and also have a 67 RI. I quoted smashlord here because I agree with the mic over outboard POV. While you clearly have enough great gear to more than get the job done, I would strongly recommend you follow your instincts that you mentioned and try and demo a Flea or Wunder 47 if possible to see how a quality 47 type fits your voice. There are allot of great mic's but when a source/voice finds the best mic fit, it can take it up another level. Based on the type of material you mentioned I'd suggest you try and demo a Flea 47 with their F47 capsule, and not the F7 cap. While I have a 67RI and it's a great mic, I also have a Flea 47 with F47 capsule that sounds great on male vocals IME and many would prefer it. Hopefully you can demo either to see. Thanks for sharing, Mike. This is tremendously good advice. I may be able to demo a Wunder CM7 or even a Gefell CMV 563, but the Flea 47 could be more difficult as they have no dealer or distributor in Canada. I think my fellow Canadians must be buying their Flea microphones from Vintage King.
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Post by geoff738 on Jun 23, 2024 18:04:36 GMT -6
Ah, youre a fellow Canuck. Go Oilers!
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by geoff738 on Jun 23, 2024 18:07:50 GMT -6
Looks like Economik has the Trakker and Titan in stock. Just fyi.
Cheers, Geoff
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Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 18:11:09 GMT -6
Ah, youre a fellow Canuck. Go Oilers! Cheers, Geoff Awesome! I didn't know there were any Canadians on this forum. Thanks again for all your insights!
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 23, 2024 18:13:23 GMT -6
No, I haven’t used a real Sony. I didn’t find the Stam bright, more polished and natural, but not like a 47: try to demo one: then you’ll know! Go oilers !
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Post by geoff738 on Jun 23, 2024 18:27:24 GMT -6
I'm similar to most of your background description in the original post and also have a 67 RI. I quoted smashlord here because I agree with the mic over outboard POV. While you clearly have enough great gear to more than get the job done, I would strongly recommend you follow your instincts that you mentioned and try and demo a Flea or Wunder 47 if possible to see how a quality 47 type fits your voice. There are allot of great mic's but when a source/voice finds the best mic fit, it can take it up another level. Based on the type of material you mentioned I'd suggest you try and demo a Flea 47 with their F47 capsule, and not the F7 cap. While I have a 67RI and it's a great mic, I also have a Flea 47 with F47 capsule that sounds great on male vocals IME and many would prefer it. Hopefully you can demo either to see. Thanks for sharing, Mike. This is tremendously good advice. I may be able to demo a Wunder CM7 or even a Gefell CMV 563, but the Flea 47 could be more difficult as they have no dealer or distributor in Canada. I think my fellow Canadians must be buying their Flea microphones from Vintage King. Zenpro also carries Flea. Yeah in the US, but you have a couple options. Cheers, Geoff
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Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 18:54:03 GMT -6
Thanks for sharing, Mike. This is tremendously good advice. I may be able to demo a Wunder CM7 or even a Gefell CMV 563, but the Flea 47 could be more difficult as they have no dealer or distributor in Canada. I think my fellow Canadians must be buying their Flea microphones from Vintage King. Zenpro also carries Flea. Yeah in the US, but you have a couple options. Cheers, Geoff Thanks for the suggestion Geoff. I'll consider contacting them to see if it might be possible to try a demo out.
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Post by ab101 on Jun 23, 2024 19:10:31 GMT -6
Zenpro's coffee is amazing too!!!
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Post by mike on Jun 23, 2024 19:59:50 GMT -6
I'm similar to most of your background description in the original post and also have a 67 RI. I quoted smashlord here because I agree with the mic over outboard POV. While you clearly have enough great gear to more than get the job done, I would strongly recommend you follow your instincts that you mentioned and try and demo a Flea or Wunder 47 if possible to see how a quality 47 type fits your voice. There are allot of great mic's but when a source/voice finds the best mic fit, it can take it up another level. Based on the type of material you mentioned I'd suggest you try and demo a Flea 47 with their F47 capsule, and not the F7 cap. While I have a 67RI and it's a great mic, I also have a Flea 47 with F47 capsule that sounds great on male vocals IME and many would prefer it. Hopefully you can demo either to see. Thanks for sharing, Mike. This is tremendously good advice. I may be able to demo a Wunder CM7 or even a Gefell CMV 563, but the Flea 47 could be more difficult as they have no dealer or distributor in Canada. I think my fellow Canadians must be buying their Flea microphones from Vintage King. Maybe some of your Canadian friends will let you demo their 47's or you can visit them with some of your gear to make it worth both your while if there's anyone near enough to you. I'd make it a point to try 47's with both a M7 and K47 capsule so you understand first hand the noticeable difference, and I'm guessing based on your material you'll prefer one with a K47 type cap. Another option that may be less than ideal to you is to find a seller, who gives you a return policy if it's not a fit for you. Then you're only out the return shipping to try it out and know how it fits you if you send it back. shipping now days probably isn't cheap but to know how it fits you in your room with an option to return is worth it I think if you think a mic is possible fit for you giving you the peace of mind knowing one way or the other, you can move forward or move on. FWIW.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,946
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Post by ericn on Jun 23, 2024 20:47:55 GMT -6
Zenpro also carries Flea. Yeah in the US, but you have a couple options. Cheers, Geoff Thanks for the suggestion Geoff. I'll consider contacting them to see if it might be possible to try a demo out. The other option is to buy used, consider any loss a long term rental fee.
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Post by russellcreekps on Jun 23, 2024 21:02:58 GMT -6
Diclaimer, haven’t read through the thread. If I were in your position with such an excellent mic locker,, I’d buy the Powerstrip. If you do look closer at a 47 clone, maybe consider adding the H47Tube to your shortlist? And I had an M149, was not a fan at all, but I’m not a fan of bright in general.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jun 23, 2024 21:03:15 GMT -6
Read the first two pages and haven't seen this yet but I'm wondering... what problem are you trying to solve?
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Post by crillemannen on Jun 23, 2024 23:36:31 GMT -6
Personally I don't like the U67 on vocals. It's my least favourite Neumann of the famous ones. For a classic vocal chain I'd go with a U87 vintage, Neve --> 1176 --> CL1B Now that I've owned and used most of the classics I'd say if you want diversity I would have one mic with an K67 capsule and one with M7/K47. That will cover everything.I'm not a huge fan of the 251 either, I prefer Neumann by far. But.. its all about the music and if you're happy with the 67re use it and make music. Gear hunting will get you nowhere especially if you already have quality gear. Thanks for commenting! I’m a big fan of your YouTube channel by the way. In fact, I just watched your video on the Manley Ref C microphone yesterday. Since I already have the K67 capsule covered with the U67 RI, what mic(s) would you suggest with the M7/K47 capsule? I don't understand the obsession with the U47 either. I just got an M49 and that microphone is amazing on softer music. A little bit more transparent aka balanced then the U47. You get that larger then life sound of the 47 without the bloated characteristics. I haven't tried any clones of the M49 but all the bigger popular brands do one. I also really liked the GAP 800G and I'm sure the Stam is great. The thing is if possible demo a few microphones and see what you like. It's subjective and you'll also get a sense of how your U67re performs. Good luck!
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Post by chessparov on Jun 24, 2024 0:03:39 GMT -6
I'm returning ALL my Capitol Records recordings now!! Beatles/Sinatra/Dino/Beach Boys/etc. Them 47/48 Fools. Over half a Billion Records served! Chris P.S. The early Little Richard/Buddy Holly/Gene Vincent vocal captures on a 47 were tremendous too.
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Post by crillemannen on Jun 24, 2024 3:17:20 GMT -6
I'm returning ALL my Capitol Records recordings now!! Beatles/Sinatra/Dino/Beach Boys/etc. Them 47/48 Fools. Over half a Billion Records served! Chris P.S. The early Little Richard/Buddy Holly/Gene Vincent vocal captures on a 47 were tremendous too. Those reference are not really relevant to todays music if you don't want to chase that particular tone. You should base your opinion on your own experience. I know you have, but to repeat whatever internet says isn't necessarily the right thing for you or the OP in this case. The M49 sounds so good I can't really imagine anyone would prefer the U47 over the M49
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Jun 24, 2024 6:04:39 GMT -6
I'm returning ALL my Capitol Records recordings now!! Beatles/Sinatra/Dino/Beach Boys/etc. Them 47/48 Fools. Over half a Billion Records served! Chris P.S. The early Little Richard/Buddy Holly/Gene Vincent vocal captures on a 47 were tremendous too. Those reference are not really relevant to todays music if you don't want to chase that particular tone. You should base your opinion on your own experience. I know you have, but to repeat whatever internet says isn't necessarily the right thing for you or the OP in this case. The M49 sounds so good I can't really imagine anyone would prefer the U47 over the M49 I think you might be defining "today's music" a bit narrowly. Don't you really just mean the music that you yourself are interested in? There are lots of viable and innovative genres that are expanding on the frameworks that The Beatles laid down, for example. Does that really need to be said?
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Post by chessparov on Jun 24, 2024 6:57:03 GMT -6
Yes Crille I'm having a bit 'o fun. Yet... IMHO I do believe... "Source is King". Meaning the actual tone and performance (or Autotune ) will greatly outweigh the smaller factor of just the mic itself. In fact it can be an advantage, if they're counter balancing one another. Paging Shelly Yakus. I don't think Voices and Instruments have changed so much, as to overrule the U47's initial intention. A "Universal Mic".* All hail the 47! (Drops Mic) Chris *Well almost. I needed that big dramatic finish!
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