|
|
Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 7:35:26 GMT -6
Hello Everyone,
Longtime visitor of the Real Gear Online forum, who just joined today. This forum has been an incredible resource for me over the years, and I am looking forward to being part of the great community here.
As the moment, I am in the process of upgrading some gear in my home studio, and I could use your feedback and opinions.
As a quick background, I am a singer, songwriter and instrumentalist with a male tenor voice. This gear is for my own music which is in the vein of late 80’s and early 90’s classic rock. I.e. Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Richard Marx ect. Sometimes I get into ballad and Westcoast AOR territory I.e. Toto, but the most of my music has a blues hard rock leaning to it.
At the moment, I am considering following options:
Option 1 - Purchasing another high end microphone
Option 2 - Adding a transparent preamp my 500 series rack. I.e. Grace M501 or Weiss A1
Option 3 - Purchasing a high end channel strip
Option 4 - Purchasing an outboard eq like a Pultec EQP-1S or Tube-Tech PE 1C to add to my current arsenal of preamps and compressors
In terms of microphones, I currently own a U67 RI, Soyuz 017 FET, Chandler TG Mic, and Miktek CV4 (Shannon Rhoades Mod). Of these, the U67 RI is my desert island microphone. I’m planning on selling the TG microphone.
When it comes to outboard, I own the following 500 series preamps and compressors: Avedis MA5, Electrodyne 501, Cranesong Syren, Cranesong Falcon, and BAC 500. I also own a Chandler Germanium preamp and compressor.
The primary use for all my microphones is vocals, and I am considering one of the following microphones to complement the sonic character of my U67 RI.
1. Manley Reference Mono Gold
2. U47 Clone (Flea 47, Wunder CM7-GTS ect.)
3. Neumann M149
If I purchase a channel strip, I am leaning toward the following tube based channel strips to pair well with my U67 RI:
1. Tube-Tech MEC 1A
2. Retro Instruments Power Strip
3. Manley Vox Box
Of all the options I’ve listed above, what option do you think would add the most value to my studio? Also, within those options what microphone or piece of outboard gear would you recommend?
I am also open to any additional suggestions you may have.
Thanks in advance for your help, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts and insights!
|
|
|
|
Post by brenta on Jun 23, 2024 7:50:56 GMT -6
As far as Option 2, I don’t feel like you have to spend a lot of money to get a transparent preamp. You could get a Cranborne Camden for $350 which would leave you plenty of room in your budget to still pursue one of your other options. It’s super clean and transparent and has some additional cool features.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 23, 2024 8:38:27 GMT -6
As far as Option 2, I don’t feel like you have to spend a lot of money to get a transparent preamp. You could get a Cranborne Camden for $350 which would leave you plenty of room in your budget to still pursue one of your other options. It’s super clean and transparent and has some additional cool features. Or a Shiny Box Si for like $299 or whatever they are. I’ve got one of those and they’re totally great. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 23, 2024 8:40:39 GMT -6
So - I’m gonna be that guy. And I only say this because I WISH someone had made me do it this way - would have saved a lot of time and money.
If you’re building tracks at home and mixing yourself, treat your room. Professionally. Buy new monitors. If you can’t truly hear what you’re doing, new gear makes no sense. Or buy a Trinnov for $2500 on reverb.
|
|
|
|
Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 8:48:53 GMT -6
So - I’m gonna be that guy. And I only say this because I WISH someone had made me do it this way - would have saved a lot of time and money. If you’re building tracks at home and mixing yourself, treat your room. Professionally. Buy new monitors. If you can’t truly hear what you’re doing, new gear makes no sense. Or buy a Trinnov for $2500 on reverb. Thanks! I figured that might come up. I didn’t include it in my original post, but my room is fully treated and I’m using PSI A17 M monitors. Given the fact that I have those most important bases covered, what would you recommend? |
|
|
|
Post by smashlord on Jun 23, 2024 8:56:05 GMT -6
Mic. Always a mic over outboard. The right mic on the right source can often negate the need for a lot of stuff later in the chain.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 23, 2024 9:51:03 GMT -6
So - I’m gonna be that guy. And I only say this because I WISH someone had made me do it this way - would have saved a lot of time and money. If you’re building tracks at home and mixing yourself, treat your room. Professionally. Buy new monitors. If you can’t truly hear what you’re doing, new gear makes no sense. Or buy a Trinnov for $2500 on reverb. Thanks! I figured that might come up. I didn’t include it in my original post, but my room is fully treated and I’m using PSI A17 M monitors. Given the fact that I have those most important bases covered, what would you recommend? I swear I’m not trying to be a contrarian - this has just been a game changer in a real sense of the words for me…But a Trinnov. Or at least some room correction. You can treat a room, but unless you’ve got 4 feet of 703 absorbing 60Hz, it’s probably doing less than you think. But I know that’s not sexy. And I’ll shut up about it. Can’t go wrong with Retro Instruments…I’ve got a Signal Arts U48 that I’m really looking forward to getting. Just can’t justify spending $4k plus on a mic. Those other ones are definitely pretty, though. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 23, 2024 9:52:34 GMT -6
Mic. Always a mic over outboard. The right mic on the right source can often negate the need for a lot of stuff later in the chain. Of course, if you have a huge dip at 90 and 400 hz and then a big bump at 2khz…it’s hard to make a judgement on said mic. I know, I know…I’ll shut up. I just really wish someone had told me to spend my money on the fundamentals. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 23, 2024 9:54:31 GMT -6
So - I’m gonna be that guy. And I only say this because I WISH someone had made me do it this way - would have saved a lot of time and money. If you’re building tracks at home and mixing yourself, treat your room. Professionally. Buy new monitors. If you can’t truly hear what you’re doing, new gear makes no sense. Or buy a Trinnov for $2500 on reverb. Thanks! I figured that might come up. I didn’t include it in my original post, but my room is fully treated and I’m using PSI A17 M monitors. Given the fact that I have those most important bases covered, what would you recommend? Re-reading my post, I should have said treat your room and room correction first…not buy new monitors. ATCs aren’t worth very much if they’re telling you the wrong information by the time it gets to your ears. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107 
|
Post by ericn on Jun 23, 2024 10:02:20 GMT -6
Get the room right first then go some where you can actually try some mics and find what works for you. Neither is sexy both will save a tone n the long run.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Jun 23, 2024 10:04:28 GMT -6
What’s your interface / converter / volume controller?
Honestly what you have sounds perfectly fine, is more than most hits were made with (you have a chandler germanium to mess up the sound and can pretty much use a plugin or two itb for clean control) and you’re not going to be applying a lot of gain to a close up hot modern condenser so any pre beyond the ones that are buffers before the chips is just adding more distortion and noise that you may or may not want.
Unless you want to build a cleanish big budget rap vocal chain or a pristine big budget classical one with a very clean ldc, very clean sdc room mics and record yourself like that, I don’t really see a point other than upgrading your monitoring path or buying something with a ton of distortion you’ll rarely use
The one thing you don’t have is a western (let’s throw in Japan too) made mic with less resonances in the high end than the clones and diy stuff with chinese mass produced or diy capsules. Of course this will not wow you but it is utility thing more useful than everything cool you may have.
|
|
|
|
Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 10:22:34 GMT -6
Thanks! I figured that might come up. I didn’t include it in my original post, but my room is fully treated and I’m using PSI A17 M monitors. Given the fact that I have those most important bases covered, what would you recommend? Just can’t justify spending $4k plus on a mic. Those other ones are definitely pretty, though. I understand where you're coming from. It took me years to finally take the plunge and get something as expensive as the Neumann U67 RI, but I know it's a classic that I'll have for years to come. Previous to that, I never spent more than 3K on a microphone. I know the Soyuz 017 FET gets a lot of love here, and I agree that it's a great microphone. My personal experience, however, is that it's more sensitive to dynamic changes than the U67 and can get quite sibilant at the top. I wondered if the Manley Gold would make a good replacement for it, but I'm not sure that's the right microphone for the style of music that I'm doing. Hence why I am considering a U47 clone like the Flea 47. |
|
|
|
Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 10:31:04 GMT -6
What’s your interface / converter / volume controller? Honestly what you have sounds perfectly fine, is more than most hits were made with (you have a chandler germanium to mess up the sound and can pretty much use a plugin or two itb for clean control) and you’re not going to be applying a lot of gain to a close up hot modern condenser so any pre beyond the ones that are buffers before the chips is just adding more distortion and noise that you may or may not want. Unless you want to build a cleanish big budget rap vocal chain or a pristine big budget classical one with a very clean ldc, very clean sdc room mics and record yourself like that, I don’t really see a point other than upgrading your monitoring path or buying something with a ton of distortion you’ll rarely use The one thing you don’t have is a western (let’s throw in Japan too) made mic with less resonances in the high end than the clones and diy stuff with chinese mass produced or diy capsules. Of course this will not wow you but it is utility thing more useful than everything cool you may have. Thanks for your suggestions. To answer your question, I'm using a Lynx Hilo (Thunderbolt version) as my interface/converter and volume controller. I previously had an Apollo 8P and Apollo Twin MKII, but I sold them both to simplify my setup. I really like the simplicity of using the Hilo, and the AD/DA sounds excellent to my ears. What would you suggest for a western made mic with less resonance in the high end? |
|
|
|
Post by seawell on Jun 23, 2024 10:43:47 GMT -6
Since you're primarily recording vocals, I think you'll benefit most from one of the channelstrips you listed. I've used the Voxbox, it's amazing, huge and headroom for days! I've used pretty much every piece of retro gear except for the Powerstrip haha. ...but based on my understanding, the compressor is RS124 style and the EQ is pultec style. I have used their Revolver(RS124) and 2A3(Pultec) and if it sounds like those two, it would make an incredible vocal chain!
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Jun 23, 2024 10:43:56 GMT -6
Hello Everyone, Longtime visitor of the Real Gear Online forum, who just joined today. This forum has been an incredible resource for me over the years, and I am looking to being part of the great community here. As the moment, I am in the process of upgrading some gear in my home studio, and I could use your feedback and opinions. As a quick background, I am a singer, songwriter and instrumentalist with a male tenor voice. This gear is for my own music which is in the vein of late 80’s and early 90’s classic rock. I.e. Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Richard Marx ect. Sometimes I get into ballad and Westcoast AOR territory I.e. Toto, but the most of my music has a blues hard rock leaning to it. At the moment, I am considering following options: Option 1 - Purchasing another high end microphone Option 2 - Adding a transparent preamp my 500 series rack. I.e. Grace M501 or Weiss A1 Option 3 - Purchasing a high end channel strip Option 4 - Purchasing an outboard eq like a Pultec EQP-1S or Tube-Tech PE 1C to add to my current arsenal of preamps and compressors In terms of microphones, I currently own a U67 RI, Soyuz 017 FET, Chandler TG Mic, and Miktek CV4 (Shannon Rhoades Mod). Of these, the U67 RI is my desert island microphone. I’m planning on selling the TG microphone. When it comes to outboard, I own the following 500 series preamps and compressors: Avedis MA5, Electrodyne 501, Cranesong Syren, Cranesong Falcon, and BAC 500. I also own a Chandler Germanium preamp and compressor. The primary use for all my microphones is vocals, and I am considering one of the following microphones to complement the sonic character of my U67 RI. 1. Manley Reference Mono Gold 2. U47 Clone (Flea 47, Wunder CM7-GTS ect.) 3. Neumann M149 If I purchase a channel strip, I am leaning toward the following tube based channel strips to pair well with my U67 RI: 1. Tube-Tech MEC 1A 2. Retro Instruments Power Strip 3. Manley Vox Box Of all the options I’ve listed above, what option do you think would add the most value to my studio? Also, within those options what microphone or piece of outboard gear would you recommend? I am also open to any additional suggestions you may have. Thanks in advance for your help, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts and insights! Honestly...Option 5 More vocal training.  It never ends!  Rest/Water/Lessons and getting direct observation/Groupies-Oops got carried away. IMHO more important than subtle gear differences. * Chris *Or a SM7 plus Cloudlifter. (Let's make Ward (SM7) and Dan (Cloudlifter) happy ) LOL! |
|
|
|
Post by vvvooojjj on Jun 23, 2024 10:46:22 GMT -6
IMO you only need one chain for vocals (mic+pre+comp) if you record yourself, which can also be used for acoustics and a chain for DId instuments. If you record amps then 57+Chandler Germanium will work fine.
Sell the rest and get Trinnov and check PSI AVAAs too. Then just write more music.
|
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Jun 23, 2024 10:49:08 GMT -6
P.S. Got some of your existing vocal clips?
Maybe post up a couple of vocal chains you already have?
|
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Jun 23, 2024 10:51:59 GMT -6
Can you book a day somewhere with a killer mic locker and find the perfect vocal mic for your voice, and then get one of those?
I find the U67 reissue works on and lots of different singers though. It’s a versatile mic, to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Jun 23, 2024 11:05:31 GMT -6
What’s your interface / converter / volume controller? Honestly what you have sounds perfectly fine, is more than most hits were made with (you have a chandler germanium to mess up the sound and can pretty much use a plugin or two itb for clean control) and you’re not going to be applying a lot of gain to a close up hot modern condenser so any pre beyond the ones that are buffers before the chips is just adding more distortion and noise that you may or may not want. Unless you want to build a cleanish big budget rap vocal chain or a pristine big budget classical one with a very clean ldc, very clean sdc room mics and record yourself like that, I don’t really see a point other than upgrading your monitoring path or buying something with a ton of distortion you’ll rarely use The one thing you don’t have is a western (let’s throw in Japan too) made mic with less resonances in the high end than the clones and diy stuff with chinese mass produced or diy capsules. Of course this will not wow you but it is utility thing more useful than everything cool you may have. Thanks for your suggestions. To answer your question, I'm using a Lynx Hilo (Thunderbolt version) as my interface/converter and volume controller. I previously had an Apollo 8P and Apollo Twin MKII, but I sold them both to simplify my setup. I really like the simplicity of using the Hilo, and the AD/DA sounds excellent to my ears. What would you suggest for a western made mic with less resonance in the high end? yeah no reason to waste money upgrading any of that! the real deal version of whatever sounds best on your voice to you! There will usually be less micro resonances in the highs, less low mid distortion, and more real world headroom than many of the Chinese capsules, clones of the Chinese clones of Neumann capsules, and diy capsules. |
|
|
|
Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 11:23:06 GMT -6
Since you're primarily recording vocals, I think you'll benefit most from one of the channelstrips you listed. I've used the Voxbox, it's amazing, huge and headroom for days! I've used pretty much every piece of retro gear except for the Powerstrip haha. ...but based on my understanding, the compressor is RS124 style and the EQ is pultec style. I have used their Revolver(RS124) and 2A3(Pultec) and if it sounds like those two, it would make an incredible vocal chain! I've been hearing great things about the Powerstrip, and the Pultec style EQ is exactly what I'm looking for. That's a big part of the reason that I was interested in the Tube-Tech MEC1A unit. I just find that my U67 Reissue sounds best through my current tube chain of Cranesong Syren - Cranesong Falcon - Hilo. Dave Hill was a genius and the Cranesong units sound great. I just wonder if I could do even better with the Manley Vox Box, Powerstrip or Tube-Tech MEC1A rack units. What do you think? |
|
|
|
Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 11:24:31 GMT -6
Hello Everyone, Longtime visitor of the Real Gear Online forum, who just joined today. This forum has been an incredible resource for me over the years, and I am looking to being part of the great community here. As the moment, I am in the process of upgrading some gear in my home studio, and I could use your feedback and opinions. As a quick background, I am a singer, songwriter and instrumentalist with a male tenor voice. This gear is for my own music which is in the vein of late 80’s and early 90’s classic rock. I.e. Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Richard Marx ect. Sometimes I get into ballad and Westcoast AOR territory I.e. Toto, but the most of my music has a blues hard rock leaning to it. At the moment, I am considering following options: Option 1 - Purchasing another high end microphone Option 2 - Adding a transparent preamp my 500 series rack. I.e. Grace M501 or Weiss A1 Option 3 - Purchasing a high end channel strip Option 4 - Purchasing an outboard eq like a Pultec EQP-1S or Tube-Tech PE 1C to add to my current arsenal of preamps and compressors In terms of microphones, I currently own a U67 RI, Soyuz 017 FET, Chandler TG Mic, and Miktek CV4 (Shannon Rhoades Mod). Of these, the U67 RI is my desert island microphone. I’m planning on selling the TG microphone. When it comes to outboard, I own the following 500 series preamps and compressors: Avedis MA5, Electrodyne 501, Cranesong Syren, Cranesong Falcon, and BAC 500. I also own a Chandler Germanium preamp and compressor. The primary use for all my microphones is vocals, and I am considering one of the following microphones to complement the sonic character of my U67 RI. 1. Manley Reference Mono Gold 2. U47 Clone (Flea 47, Wunder CM7-GTS ect.) 3. Neumann M149 If I purchase a channel strip, I am leaning toward the following tube based channel strips to pair well with my U67 RI: 1. Tube-Tech MEC 1A 2. Retro Instruments Power Strip 3. Manley Vox Box Of all the options I’ve listed above, what option do you think would add the most value to my studio? Also, within those options what microphone or piece of outboard gear would you recommend? I am also open to any additional suggestions you may have. Thanks in advance for your help, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts and insights! Honestly...Option 5 More vocal training. It never ends! Rest/Water/Lessons and getting direct observation/Groupies-Oops got carried away. IMHO more important than subtle gear differences. * Chris *Or a SM7 plus Cloudlifter. (Let's make Ward (SM7) and Dan (Cloudlifter) happy ) LOL! Great advice! I've been doing vocal training for the better part of 17 years. I usually practice about 45 minutes a day, 5 days a week. |
|
|
|
Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 11:27:28 GMT -6
Can you book a day somewhere with a killer mic locker and find the perfect vocal mic for your voice, and then get one of those? I find the U67 reissue works on and lots of different singers though. It’s a versatile mic, to me. Unfortunately not. That would be ideal though. The best I can do is purchase something like the Manley Gold, and return it within 30 days if it doesn't suit my voice. Very happy with the U67 RI. Just wondering if there is something else I should add for another high end microphone option. |
|
|
|
Post by drumster on Jun 23, 2024 11:35:26 GMT -6
Thanks for your suggestions. To answer your question, I'm using a Lynx Hilo (Thunderbolt version) as my interface/converter and volume controller. I previously had an Apollo 8P and Apollo Twin MKII, but I sold them both to simplify my setup. I really like the simplicity of using the Hilo, and the AD/DA sounds excellent to my ears. What would you suggest for a western made mic with less resonance in the high end? yeah no reason to waste money upgrading any of that! the real deal version of whatever sounds best on your voice to you! There will usually be less micro resonances in the highs, less low mid distortion, and more real world headroom than many of the Chinese capsules, clones of the Chinese clones of Neumann capsules, and diy capsules. I agree with you completely. I am done with buying microphones that are not the real deal version. That's a big part of the reason that I finally bought the U67. I was actually about to pull the trigger on the UA Bock 167, but decided that if I was going to spend that much money that I might as well stretch things as far as I could and get a real U67. I couldn't be happier with my decision. When it comes to Western made mics without any compromise, would you say that the following mics fall into that category?: Neumann M149, U87 AI, Telefunken U47, Elam 251E, Manley Gold Reference Mono. Also, would a Wunder CM7 or Flea 47 also fall into that category, or is that in the Chinese made category? |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 23, 2024 11:38:41 GMT -6
Just can’t justify spending $4k plus on a mic. Those other ones are definitely pretty, though. I understand where you're coming from. It took me years to finally take the plunge and get something as expensive as the Neumann U67 RI, but I know it's a classic that I'll have for years to come. Previous to that, I never spent more than 3K on a microphone. I know the Soyuz 017 FET gets a lot of love here, and I agree that it's a great microphone. My personal experience, however, is that it's more sensitive to dynamic changes than the U67 and can get quite sibilant at the top. I wondered if the Manley Gold would make a good replacement for it, but I'm not sure that's the right microphone for the style of music that I'm doing. Hence why I am considering a U47 clone like the Flea 47. I’ve owned A Wunder CM7, both CM7-gts, Miktek, Miktek Mods, C12, multiple Pelusos, multiple Uptons, Telefunken 251, Mojave, Heiserman, the list goes on. If it’s not a vintage mic, I don’t see the point in over paying. |
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Jun 23, 2024 11:41:06 GMT -6
yeah no reason to waste money upgrading any of that! the real deal version of whatever sounds best on your voice to you! There will usually be less micro resonances in the highs, less low mid distortion, and more real world headroom than many of the Chinese capsules, clones of the Chinese clones of Neumann capsules, and diy capsules. I agree with you completely. I am done with buying microphones that are not the real deal version. That's a big part of the reason that I finally bought the U67. I was actually about to pull the trigger on the UA Bock 167, but decided that if I was going to spend that much money that I might as well stretch things as far as I could and get a real U67. I couldn't be happier with my decision. When it comes to Western made mics without any compromise, would you say that the following mics fall into that category?: Neumann M149, U87 AI, Telefunken U47, Elam 251E, Manley Gold Reference Mono. Also, would a Wunder CM7 or Flea 47 also fall into that category, or is that in the Chinese made category? I didn’t realize you have a u67! What more do you need? |
|
