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Post by drumster on Oct 2, 2024 8:06:46 GMT -6
Hey Everyone,
As a follow up to my previous thread from a few months ago, I am currently in the midst of buying gear for my new studio configuration. To make a long story short, I am moving away from 500 series gear and into full size rack gear.
My main microphone is a Neumann U67 Reissue, and I just picked up a Tree Audio Branch II tube channel strip. I also invested in an LA-2A Reissue and a UREI 1176 LN Revision F to be used as vocal tracking compressors. In terms of EQ, I picked up the Pultec 500 series EQP-500-X.
My next step is to invest in an AMS Neve 1073 preamp, so I’m trying to decide which model to go with. Should I go with the classic, hand wired 1073 CV module and AMS 3U rack, or should I save the money and get a 1073 SPX or DPX? Is the hand wired classic module worth the extra investment in terms of sonics?
If I go with the more affordable 1073 SPX/DPX, I could also invest in another vocal tracking compressor. On that note, I’m thinking about picking up one of the following compressors: Chandler RS124, Retro 176 or Retro STA Level. Which of those would be the best one to add to my LA-2A and 1176?
Thanks in advance for your help!
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Post by christopher on Oct 2, 2024 8:39:54 GMT -6
Since you are already going the spare no expense route, I’d say go for the hand wired modules.
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Post by bluesholyman on Oct 2, 2024 9:13:54 GMT -6
Hey Everyone, As a follow up to my previous thread from a few months ago, I am currently in the midst of buying gear for my new studio configuration. To make a long story short, I am moving away from 500 series gear and into full size rack gear. Afraid I can't be much help with insight for your question as I am early in the journey. If you wouldn't mind sharing, though, I'd be interested in your thoughts on forgoing 500 for full size.
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Post by Chad on Oct 2, 2024 9:21:03 GMT -6
I'd also give the Heritage Audio modules a shot! (Test them somehow?) The 500 series 1073 and their 500 series '73 EQ both shine.
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Post by damoongo on Oct 2, 2024 9:21:16 GMT -6
Or just save up a little more and get an original vintage 1073 or 1081. (Then when it comes time to sell, you get all your money back, plus more.) Retro 176 is an incredible beast. I use a 67 / 1073 / 176 chain here a lot. With the interstage transformer engaged, it adds a little hype in the extended highs, which complements the 67 nicely. And it can pull 5, 10, 15 db off a source without getting pinchy and thin, if you've got singers that wail sometimes.
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Post by mythundreamt on Oct 2, 2024 9:24:17 GMT -6
And don’t not try a BAE 1073 module. I sold my original after getting one of those. The Heritage and AMS I bought and sold weren’t that different, but to me the BAE was the closest. Just my limited experience.
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Post by dok on Oct 2, 2024 9:36:07 GMT -6
If it's only just for vocals I think you're probably good with the compressors you have. Hell of a chain.
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Post by mike on Oct 2, 2024 9:51:28 GMT -6
And don’t not try a BAE 1073 module. I sold my original after getting one of those. The Heritage and AMS I bought and sold weren’t that different, but to me the BAE was the closest. Just my limited experience. Which BAE and AMS Model versions were you comparing (BAE 1073 With EQ and filter- AMS same Hardwired) ? Thanks
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 2, 2024 10:06:23 GMT -6
Hey Everyone, As a follow up to my previous thread from a few months ago, I am currently in the midst of buying gear for my new studio configuration. To make a long story short, I am moving away from 500 series gear and into full size rack gear. My main microphone is a Neumann U67 Reissue, and I just picked up a Tree Audio Branch II tube channel strip. I also invested in an LA-2A Reissue and a UREI 1176 LN Revision F to be used as vocal tracking compressors. In terms of EQ, I picked up the Pultec 500 series EQP-500-X. My next step is to invest in an AMS Neve 1073 preamp, so I’m trying to decide which model to go with. Should I go with the classic, hand wired 1073 CV module and AMS 3U rack, or should I save the money and get a 1073 SPX or DPX? Is the hand wired classic module worth the extra investment in terms of sonics? If I go with the more affordable 1073 SPX/DPX, I could also invest in another vocal tracking compressor. On that note, I’m thinking about picking up one of the following compressors: Chandler RS124, Retro 176 or Retro STA Level. Which of those would be the best one to add to my LA-2A and 1176? Thanks in advance for your help! I'd say split the difference and get a BAE 1073.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 2, 2024 10:29:06 GMT -6
I agree with dok , Do you want a great vox tracking compressor? Or the greatest vox tracking compressor ever built?😂 JMO, a 651 is an almost invisible vox tracking comp, a modded one is absolutely invisible, you could buy 5 for the price of one of the fancy ones that give you more color and almost no control. I have 4 over the moon modded 651's that are 100% of the time used for vox tracking, they have styrene caps and AD4898's ic's through the entire audio path. Pic is my drum tracking rack. I actually have double more 651's and 160xt's, the modded ones get used for any purity tracks and the stocker transformer based 160xt's get used for individual r&r drums for old school dirt, i very much subscribe to the "if everything is dirty nothing is dirty, if everything is clean nothing is clean" school of thought, it looks like you have the color covered, lots of parameter control gives you the opportunity to control the musicality and groove of what you are working on. Of course jme, hope this helps you and saves you some $
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Post by niklas1073 on Oct 2, 2024 10:50:15 GMT -6
I am going to join the choir here regarding BAE . I’d pick it over the others. Have gone down that rabbit hole and research journey. It just sounds the best to me. It’s not even a matter of which is closest to the “original”, thats not a relevant debate i feel, because this is how it should have sounded. It does sound slightly different to the ams. It has an unbeatable low end and low mid. It is bolder in lack of other words. The build and parts used are top notch.
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Post by drumster on Oct 2, 2024 11:12:50 GMT -6
Hey Everyone, As a follow up to my previous thread from a few months ago, I am currently in the midst of buying gear for my new studio configuration. To make a long story short, I am moving away from 500 series gear and into full size rack gear. Afraid I can't be much help with insight for your question as I am early in the journey. If you wouldn't mind sharing, though, I'd be interested in your thoughts on forgoing 500 for full size. That's a great question. I have been using 500 series gear for the past decade, and over that time I acquired a number of really great modules from Avedis, Crane Song, and Electrodyne. After acquiring a Neumann U67 Reissue back in the spring, I was disatisfied with how it was sounding through all my preamps. I subsequently ended up picking up the Pultec 500 series EQ to open up the top of the U67. It did so beautifully, but I still felt like things could be further improved. This search led me to looking into tube style preamps because I had read that they pair very well with a U67. My rep at Vintage King recommended that I try out the Tree Audio Branch channel strip. I liked the story behind the company and several threads on this forum touted its virtues. As soon as I tracked my first vocal through the Branch I noticed a big difference. Everything sounded bigger and more 3D. All of my 500 series gear sounded smaller in comparison and didn't have the same weight in the mix. I suddenly came to the realization that all the things I'd read about bigger transformer sizes and power supplies in full size rack gear were probably true. I ran several more tests through the 500 series preamps and always came to the same conclusion. In terms of sonics, there are none that I would choose over the Branch tube channel strip. This inspired me to build a vocal signal chain using rack gear exclusively. Since then I picked up an LA-2A and a vintage 1176. The only thing I'm missing now is a Neve 1073 style preamp. Hope this helps!
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Post by drumster on Oct 2, 2024 11:14:59 GMT -6
I agree with dok , Do you want a great vox tracking compressor? Or the greatest vox tracking compressor ever built?😂 JMO, a 651 is an almost invisible vox tracking comp, a modded one is absolutely invisible, you could buy 5 for the price of one of the fancy ones that give you more color and almost no control. I have 4 over the moon modded 651's that are 100% of the time used for vox tracking, they have styrene caps and AD4898's ic's through the entire audio path. Pic is my drum tracking rack. I actually have double more 651's and 160xt's, the modded ones get used for any purity tracks and the stocker transformer based 160xt's get used for individual r&r drums for old school dirt, i very much subscribe to the "if everything is dirty nothing is dirty, if everything is clean nothing is clean" school of thought, it looks like you have the color covered, lots of parameter control gives you the opportunity to control the musicality and groove of what you are working on. Of course jme, hope this helps you and saves you some $ View Attachment Thanks for the suggestion. I've never heard of the 651 before. It seems the mod you speak about goes back about 15 years. There is a post from someone on this form from 2013 that said that it sounds a bit digital. Does that line up with your experience?
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Post by drumster on Oct 2, 2024 11:17:28 GMT -6
I am going to join the choir here regarding BAE . I’d pick it over the others. Have gone down that rabbit hole and research journey. It just sounds the best to me. It’s not even a matter of which is closest to the “original”, thats not a relevant debate i feel, because this is how it should have sounded. It does sound slightly different to the ams. It has an unbeatable low end and low mid. It is bolder in lack of other words. The build and parts used are top notch. Thanks for your recommendation. The only reason I didn't mention BAE is because I had heard that there were issues with build quality, and customer service. I had also heard that they are very dark sounding. With that said, I haven't actually heard one myself and would certainly be willing to consider it as an option. 2 BAE rack units with EQ and power supply are still cheaper than 2 hand wired AMS modules in a 3U rack!
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 2, 2024 11:40:28 GMT -6
Just to play devils advocate for a moment...if you're loving the sound of the Tree Audio Branch II, why not just stick with that? Why do you need a 1073? Neves are great and all, but if the Tree Audio is giving you what you want why not just spend that money on another compressor or other outboard?
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Post by bluesholyman on Oct 2, 2024 12:04:47 GMT -6
Yes, very much - a more thorough answer than I was expecting, thank you. I looked up Tree Branch and now I want The Trunk. Some days, I think gear should be listed as a controlled substance because of its addictive properties....then I am glad it is not and happily lose my money to the disease.
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Post by skav on Oct 2, 2024 12:09:18 GMT -6
IMO neither is objectively better than the other. BAE is a bit darker, AMS Neve more modern sounding IME. Some associate darker with vintage, which may be true, I don't know. Ultimately depends on your taste and source. Will you be using EQ on the way in? Are your main recording source drums? Are you able to try one out? IME neither companys e-mail support is very strong. AMS a little better though, and you can reach them by phone quite easily which is a big plus to me. I'd go with the AMS. Not trying to sway your decision, just show that there are those who like them too For compressors, few things beat an 1176 IMO. I am a fan of the 1178 style myself, which is cleaner tham your reissue. I have an Audioscape clone myself. It's a dual channel and can come in handy for mixing too.
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Post by niklas1073 on Oct 2, 2024 12:31:51 GMT -6
I am going to join the choir here regarding BAE . I’d pick it over the others. Have gone down that rabbit hole and research journey. It just sounds the best to me. It’s not even a matter of which is closest to the “original”, thats not a relevant debate i feel, because this is how it should have sounded. It does sound slightly different to the ams. It has an unbeatable low end and low mid. It is bolder in lack of other words. The build and parts used are top notch. Thanks for your recommendation. The only reason I didn't mention BAE is because I had heard that there were issues with build quality, and customer service. I had also heard that they are very dark sounding. With that said, I haven't actually heard one myself and would certainly be willing to consider it as an option. 2 BAE rack units with EQ and power supply are still cheaper than 2 hand wired AMS modules in a 3U rack! Never heard about any issues with build quality, vice versa, they are extremely finicky about parts and build from what i know. The customer service I have no clue as I always deal thru retailer who takes care of all issues if they appear. They are not dark really. They have a full low end, mid push maybe, that might give that impression compared to ams or heritage which lack that. I have never had the need to carve that out nor do I push highs. But of course it’s a matter of taste. I’m not a fan of overly bright mixes, I do like big mids and a rounded sound. So it sits perfect in that. What I also like is that it never leaves me with harsh upper mids.
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Post by Dan on Oct 2, 2024 12:39:34 GMT -6
I agree with dok , Do you want a great vox tracking compressor? Or the greatest vox tracking compressor ever built?😂 JMO, a 651 is an almost invisible vox tracking comp, a modded one is absolutely invisible, you could buy 5 for the price of one of the fancy ones that give you more color and almost no control. I have 4 over the moon modded 651's that are 100% of the time used for vox tracking, they have styrene caps and AD4898's ic's through the entire audio path. Pic is my drum tracking rack. I actually have double more 651's and 160xt's, the modded ones get used for any purity tracks and the stocker transformer based 160xt's get used for individual r&r drums for old school dirt, i very much subscribe to the "if everything is dirty nothing is dirty, if everything is clean nothing is clean" school of thought, it looks like you have the color covered, lots of parameter control gives you the opportunity to control the musicality and groove of what you are working on. Of course jme, hope this helps you and saves you some $ View AttachmentThe Aphex 661 is even smoother with the auto and ability to turn off the tube by internal dip switch.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 2, 2024 13:09:17 GMT -6
There is a post from someone on this form from 2013 that said that it sounds a bit digital. Does that line up with your experience? Well…, they are vca analog compressors and I have around 20 of them and I’m an analog freak, so I’d say not even at all. 661 is almost the same circuit and has what I consider to be a useless tube section that isn’t well implemented and defies the transparent character(lack there of) I acquired and modified the 651’s for in the first place, ymmv but i did not find it smoother in any way after testing the holy heck out of it, thats why i dont have racks full of them
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Post by Dan on Oct 2, 2024 13:12:21 GMT -6
I agree with dok , Do you want a great vox tracking compressor? Or the greatest vox tracking compressor ever built?😂 JMO, a 651 is an almost invisible vox tracking comp, a modded one is absolutely invisible, you could buy 5 for the price of one of the fancy ones that give you more color and almost no control. I have 4 over the moon modded 651's that are 100% of the time used for vox tracking, they have styrene caps and AD4898's ic's through the entire audio path. Pic is my drum tracking rack. I actually have double more 651's and 160xt's, the modded ones get used for any purity tracks and the stocker transformer based 160xt's get used for individual r&r drums for old school dirt, i very much subscribe to the "if everything is dirty nothing is dirty, if everything is clean nothing is clean" school of thought, it looks like you have the color covered, lots of parameter control gives you the opportunity to control the musicality and groove of what you are working on. Of course jme, hope this helps you and saves you some $ View Attachment Thanks for the suggestion. I've never heard of the 651 before. It seems the mod you speak about goes back about 15 years. There is a post from someone on this form from 2013 that said that it sounds a bit digital. Does that line up with your experience? What do you mean by “digital” ? The absence of distortion independent from gain reduction? That has been the case for almost all VCA compressors since consistent control became possible when VCAs came out. Even the cleaned up FET compressors are noticeably cleaner than the 1176, eg 525, Complimiter, Daking. The distortion is very limiting on old compressors. Digital as in digital type artifacts like older, dysfunctional compressor? Only circuits with a noticeably crapped up top end or truly stupid overshoots will give you that like the bluey 1176, bad dbx 160, gc2020, and the distressor will give you that and they will be more consistently and than an oft randomly bad digital compressor. There have been digital compressors that behave well for over 25 years, eg Oxford Dynamics, Renaissance Compressor, Weiss DS1.
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Post by drumster on Oct 2, 2024 13:12:36 GMT -6
Just to play devils advocate for a moment...if you're loving the sound of the Tree Audio Branch II, why not just stick with that? Why do you need a 1073? Neves are great and all, but if the Tree Audio is giving you what you want why not just spend that money on another compressor or other outboard? Great question. I think it’s because I feel like I need a solid state option for recording vocals to complement the tube sound of the Tree Audio. The Neve 1073 is a classic and has been used on many records in the past. The closest thing I have to this sound is the Avedis MA5, but it’s in 500 series format and doesn’t have an EQ section. Believe me, I actually considered simply getting another compressor, but I thought it would be wiser to start with the Neve 1073 preamp first. Theoretically, I have 3 rack compressors already because I have the LA-2A, 1176 and the optical compressor on the Branch Channel strip. With that said, owning the aforementioned compressors has not quelled my desire for a Retro 176 or Chandler RS 124.
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Post by drumster on Oct 2, 2024 13:15:14 GMT -6
IMO neither is objectively better than the other. BAE is a bit darker, AMS Neve more modern sounding IME. Some associate darker with vintage, which may be true, I don't know. Ultimately depends on your taste and source. Will you be using EQ on the way in? Are your main recording source drums? Are you able to try one out? IME neither companys e-mail support is very strong. AMS a little better though, and you can reach them by phone quite easily which is a big plus to me. I'd go with the AMS. Not trying to sway your decision, just show that there are those who like them too For compressors, few things beat an 1176 IMO. I am a fan of the 1178 style myself, which is cleaner tham your reissue. I have an Audioscape clone myself. It's a dual channel and can come in handy for mixing too. To answer your questions, I will be EQ’ing on the way in. The main use for the 1073 would be for vocal tracking. The only unit that I am able to try out for a 30 day money back guarantee in my studio is the AMS 1073 SPX or DPX.
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Post by Dan on Oct 2, 2024 13:15:16 GMT -6
There is a post from someone on this form from 2013 that said that it sounds a bit digital. Does that line up with your experience?Well…, they are vca analog compressors and I have around 20 of them and I’m an analog freak, so I’d say not even at all. 661 is almost the same circuit and has what I consider to be a useless tube section that isn’t well implemented and defies the transparent character(lack there of) I acquired and modified the 651’s for in the first place, ymmv but i did not find it smoother in any way after testing the holy heck out of it, thats why i dont have racks full of them easy rider switch adds program dependency, negating need for serial compression, lowering distortion. Tube stage can be disabled.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 2, 2024 13:20:15 GMT -6
There is a post from someone on this form from 2013 that said that it sounds a bit digital. Does that line up with your experience?Well…, they are vca analog compressors and I have around 20 of them and I’m an analog freak, so I’d say not even at all. 661 is almost the same circuit and has what I consider to be a useless tube section that isn’t well implemented and defies the transparent character(lack there of) I acquired and modified the 651’s for in the first place, ymmv but i did not find it smoother in any way after testing the holy heck out of it, thats why i dont have racks full of them easy rider switch adds program dependency, negating need for serial compression, lowering distortion. Tube stage can be disabled. Got u D, I never use auto anything lol, never even tried it, the ubiquitous control parameters were what turned me on to the 651 in the first place, absolute control yo! Why take the easy way when u can torture yourself lol
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