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Post by wiz on Dec 1, 2023 17:58:00 GMT -6
Boy I could've actually played that until I got it right...and maybe a little less freaking room on the guitar...but oh well. I bet wiz knows this song... I have never heard it before.... But f*4K!!! man you are a talent....I was really moved.... the capture sounds killer...and that guitar is a canon!!! You should be out gigging just you and acoustic... I would do gigs with you in a heartbeat..... again....f$#k!! cheers Wiz |
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Post by wiz on Dec 1, 2023 17:59:13 GMT -6
dammit just looked at the price.... arrrghhh I said I wasn't buying anymore microphones.....
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 1, 2023 18:33:15 GMT -6
Boy I could've actually played that until I got it right...and maybe a little less freaking room on the guitar...but oh well. I bet wiz knows this song... I have never heard it before.... But f*4K!!! man you are a talent....I was really moved.... the capture sounds killer...and that guitar is a canon!!! You should be out gigging just you and acoustic... I would do gigs with you in a heartbeat..... again....f$#k!! cheers Wiz Thanks, man...It's actually a Colin Hay song. Wish I had written it because it's one of my favorites ever. |
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Post by wiz on Dec 1, 2023 19:00:03 GMT -6
I have never heard it before.... But f*4K!!! man you are a talent....I was really moved.... the capture sounds killer...and that guitar is a canon!!! You should be out gigging just you and acoustic... I would do gigs with you in a heartbeat..... again....f$#k!! cheers Wiz Thanks, man...It's actually a Colin Hay song. Wish I had written it because it's one of my favorites ever. I do an acoustic version and very now and then with the band, Overkill.... cheers wiz |
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Post by thermos on Dec 3, 2023 12:20:07 GMT -6
Here are the tracks: A-Samar MG33 B-Schoeps CNC6 in cardioid In the spirit of shootout (BTW, the main reason is not to show 'what's better, what's worse', but rather what the microphones do, what are the strong points, and what are the 'flavors'), here is a Samar MG33 against a mighty industry standard $1995.00 DPA 4011, which IMO perhaps is one of the most balanced SDC mics on the market. Big thanks to great folks at the Funk Studios in Salt Lake City, UT, who happen to have that great mic and Hayden Cluff on guitar: samaraudiodesign.com/MG33_DPA_FingerstrumA.wavsamaraudiodesign.com/MG33_DPA_FingerstrumB.wavsamaraudiodesign.com/MG33_DPA_Open_ChordsA.wavsamaraudiodesign.com/MG33_DPA_Open_ChordsB.wavsamaraudiodesign.com/MG33_DPA_Open_Drop_D_TuningA.wavsamaraudiodesign.com/MG33_DPA_Open_Drop_D_TuningB.wavsamaraudiodesign.com/MG33_DPA_Open_G_ThemeA.wavsamaraudiodesign.com/MG33_DPA_Open_G_ThemeB.wavBest, M
Did you leave the key to this anywhere? Both sound great! |
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Post by markfouxman on Dec 3, 2023 14:03:49 GMT -6
Sorry, forgot to post. It is here:
Best, M
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Post by thermos on Dec 3, 2023 17:19:33 GMT -6
Sorry, forgot to post. It is here: Best, M Sorry I meant which mic was which?edit duh it’s in the video |
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Post by bgrotto on Dec 16, 2023 12:35:13 GMT -6
Just got a set of the MG33s to demo, and holy cow they’re small! Here’s a pic featuring Gus the cat for scale: Attachment Deleted |
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Post by ericn on Dec 16, 2023 15:20:42 GMT -6
Just got a set of the MG33s to demo, and holy cow they’re small! Here’s a pic featuring Gus the cat for scale: View AttachmentThe cat looks impressed 😁 |
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Post by bgrotto on Dec 16, 2023 17:43:17 GMT -6
Just got a set of the MG33s to demo, and holy cow they’re small! Here’s a pic featuring Gus the cat for scale: View AttachmentThe cat looks impressed 😁 Welp now I’m impressed too because I just spent the day shooting them out against the usual suspects. These things are darn good. |
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Post by ericn on Dec 16, 2023 18:20:39 GMT -6
The cat looks impressed 😁 Welp now I’m impressed too because I just spent the day shooting them out against the usual suspects. These things are darn good. Repeat after me, I do not need another SdC addiction , I do not need another SDC addiction, well they are side address. OK who’s taking bets I end up with a bunch of these before I buy another pair of Sony C535p’s? |
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Post by nomatic on Dec 16, 2023 20:26:49 GMT -6
The cat looks impressed 😁 Welp now I’m impressed too because I just spent the day shooting them out against the usual suspects. These things are darn good. How are they against 84s? |
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 16, 2023 20:43:01 GMT -6
Just got a set of the MG33s to demo, and holy cow they’re small! Here’s a pic featuring Gus the cat for scale: View AttachmentThat's either a small mic or a large cat...  |
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Post by bgrotto on Dec 16, 2023 20:51:10 GMT -6
Just got a set of the MG33s to demo, and holy cow they’re small! Here’s a pic featuring Gus the cat for scale: View AttachmentThat's either a small mic or a large cat... 😂 honestly it’s both but the mics are real small. I took a pic of them today at the studio with an sm57 for scale -  |
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Post by bgrotto on Dec 16, 2023 20:54:16 GMT -6
Welp now I’m impressed too because I just spent the day shooting them out against the usual suspects. These things are darn good. How are they against 84s? I don’t have an 84 to compare to. Closest I’ve got is a miktek c5 which was exceptionally close when I did a proper a/b with some 84s years ago. today I shot them out against my (and some other folks’) go to drum mics - 57s, 25s, 421s, 414s, e22s, and more. I’m working on an audio example I can share here…stay tuned. hope to try them on some other sources soon, and will share anything interesting if I can |
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 16, 2023 21:00:13 GMT -6
That's either a small mic or a large cat... 😂 honestly it’s both but the mics are real small. I took a pic of them today at the studio with an sm57 for scale - View AttachmentHoly cow - that does put things in perspective! Thanks, Benny! |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 16, 2023 21:32:58 GMT -6
😂 honestly it’s both but the mics are real small. I took a pic of them today at the studio with an sm57 for scale - View AttachmentHoly cow - that does put things in perspective! Thanks, Benny! 87 pound cat |
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Post by bgrotto on Dec 16, 2023 22:19:32 GMT -6
OK, here comes the motherlode. This first batch of files was my "dynamic mics" test. My A&F raw steel kit was already in the live room, so just decided to use that, along with a decent-sounding Ludwig Black Galaxy Acrolite. I deliberately chose the loudest and brightest cymbals I had on hand because I wanted to take the opportunity to check out bleed and off-axis pickup with a sort of 'stress test'. The hats are combo of Zildjian A top and Z Custom bottom, and the ride is an A Custom Ping.
I first positioned one of my 'go-to' mic setups around the kit, consisting of a D12VR on kick, RN17s on OHs, 57s on snare top/bottom, and ATM25s on toms. Then, I added a Samar MG33 positioned as closely as possible to both snare mics, the rack mic, and the floor mic.
Next setup was the same, but with the ATM 25s swapped for 421s. I don't really use 421s on toms, but figured some folks might appreciate hearing the a/b since they're such a popular choice.
In both setups, there are solo'd shells, as well as a 'full kit blend' and a blend that mutes the OHs and Kick (since there was no a/b to be done with those sources, and I figured it'd help to more clearly hear the differences in off-axis pickup and bleed of the Samars vs the other mics).
There are also the files raw as recorded, and 'processed' versions. Since I never really track flat, it didn't seem right to do a test that was purely flat either (at least, not for my purposes). Plus, I find processing can reveal some traits about a mic that are otherwise impossible to hear in the raw file (and oh boy was I proved right here!). But I was curious about the raw signal coming off each mic, so I've included raw, flat recordings, and then those same recordings with what would be fairly typical processing for me in a rock context. Namely, some 'hype' eq and a dollop (or more) of compression.
Couple last notes about this: most of these files will have two basic issues. First, the OHs were at first lower than they probably should have been. I eventually raised them and made some recordings, which will be shared in a few posts from now. But in the meantime, the OHs in these samples are not really optimally placed. Sorry, I had no assistant today and I was in a hurry, so corners were cut.
The other issue is, after experimenting a bit, I came to find that the MG33s have a pretty pronounced proximity effect, and in these initial tests, I had them positioned too close to the toms. Despite that, they still generally beat out the mic I was comparing to, but once I made the observation about the proximity and moved the mics back, oooh boy did they sound great. There will be an example of that later.
EDIT: ack, was hoping to make these playable right from these posts. Downloading is annoying. Sorry folks!
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Post by bgrotto on Dec 16, 2023 22:37:31 GMT -6
Welp, I'll keep trucking along here. I aim to compile these all into a YouTube video at some point soon so hopefully folks reluctant to download can check these out eventually in that context. Anywho!
Next batch is same approach, but this time, with one of my go-to condenser setups. Sontronics DM1S on snare top, a lovely brass cap 414eb on snare bottom, and a couple CAD 179s on toms.
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Post by bgrotto on Dec 16, 2023 22:40:58 GMT -6
Next up is a slightly tweaked setup, which I made after getting my head wrapped around what I was hearing (esp WRT the proximity effect of the MG33s). In this case, I was actually trying to get a cool drum sound, not just do a bunch of a/b-ing, so I raised the OHs a bit, backed the tom mics off a little, made some adjustments to the exact snare mic placements, and left all the processing in place. No flat captures of this bit.
I should also note this is a different snare. I started to get curious about the SPL handling of the MG33s, so I grabbed one of my extra loud snares - a Gretsch hand hammered COB that just screams.
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Post by ericn on Dec 16, 2023 22:45:09 GMT -6
Next up is a slightly tweaked setup, which I made after getting my head wrapped around what I was hearing (esp WRT the proximity effect of the MG33s). In this case, I was actually trying to get a cool drum sound, not just do a bunch of a/b-ing, so I raised the OHs a bit, backed the tom mics off a little, made some adjustments to the exact snare mic placements, and left all the processing in place. No flat captures of this bit. I should also note this is a different snare. I started to get curious about the SPL handling of the MG33s, so I grabbed one of my extra loud snares - a Gretsch hand hammered COB that just screams. View AttachmentBenny you’re really trying to spend my money! If you get a chance would love to hear them as a stereo pair, and since you do spend time T Bearkley would love to hear them on strings if the opportunity presents itself! |
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Post by ericn on Dec 16, 2023 22:46:46 GMT -6
dammit just looked at the price.... arrrghhh I said I wasn't buying anymore microphones..... Cheers Wiz If you weren’t 1/2 way around the world I’d say we go halfsies on a pair 😁 |
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Post by bgrotto on Dec 16, 2023 22:47:00 GMT -6
Next up to share is an a/b series against a Josephson e22S, which I reckon a lot of people will be curious about hearing the Samars against. I should note that I made this series of tests before I observed the proximity effect characteristics of the MG33s, so they are probably closer to the drums than I would do in practice. Because of this, I feel the MG33s sound a bit tubbier than the Josephson, though I would note that I *do* prefer their off-axis pickup.
Later, I'll share a solo'd tom track where I optimized the MG33 placements, which will hopefully add some perspective to things as far as the bottom end capture is concerned.
In the meantime, here's MG33 v. e22S:
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Post by bgrotto on Dec 16, 2023 22:48:40 GMT -6
Final couple files is the more optimized tom placement. Just backed off around 1-2". Made all the difference, IMO.
Givin' y'all the processed and unprocessed version to highlight the off-axis pickup a bit more.
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Post by bgrotto on Dec 16, 2023 22:59:22 GMT -6
My final appraisal on drums is this:
The MG33s sound awesome. They handily beat most of what I threw at them, though I still think the old 414eb edges out the MG33 on bottom snare.
On snare top, the MG33 was the clear winner across the board.
On toms, the 179s were on-par in terms of their direct pickup, but the superior off-axis sound of the MG33 gives them a narrow win. Bonus points to MG33 for insanely easy placement.
The e22S sounds darned great on toms, though with optimized placement, the MG33 holds its own. It perhaps isn't *quite* as clean in the bottom end, but again, I preferred its off-axis coloration, and it's even easier to position than the Josephson.
I think for me, perhaps the biggest strength of these things is the way they handle bleed. As I mentioned above, I deliberately chose some pretty difficult cymbals, and I was certainly hitting them hard. The spill into the MG33s remained relatively neutral and unspikey, and even though the off-axis pickup tended to be brighter in the highest reaches than the other mics I auditioned, the sound felt clean and relatively natural. And the aggressive processing didn't "break" things either, which is far more than I can say for the dynamic mics (especially those infernal 421s...ugh).
I actually made a TON more test files than what I shared here, but in order to keep things practical, this is all I'm going to share. There were many other interesting little tidbits I learned about these mics' behaviors, and I'm thankful for the opportunity to spend a few hours today playing around like this. If any of you folks get one or more of these mics, definitely take some time to audition different placement approaches; these things are uniquely sensitive to proximity and angle.
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