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Post by ab101 on Nov 14, 2023 14:52:45 GMT -6
Mark - please tell us more about these affordable new Samar offerings. Side address too! Update - Mark wrote me and said he will post later. (I understand a shootout with Schoeps is in the works!) EDIT FROM MANAGEMENT: Here's a link to the second page and a recording using the MG32. realgearonline.com/post/345689/thread |
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Post by markfouxman on Nov 14, 2023 21:51:53 GMT -6
Thank you for your interest in our microphones!
We just put the MG32 and MG33 on our website, but haven't even announced yet, so they are totally new. Like in the MG20 (and actually, all our microphones) the main emphasis is on the perfect acoustical environment surrounding the capsule to get rid of standing waves, resonances, reflection, and any obstacles to the sound not only in front of the capsule, but also behind--something most of the time gets neglected. That is, take a cardioid microphone (doesn't matter--LDC, or SDC) and place your hand right behind the capsule--you immediately hear that sound completely changes. If you look at the most of the SDC's you can see a chamber behind the capsule full of reflections, resonances, etc. A cone (sometimes absorbing foam) do help, but still the principle is--introducing a problem and then trying to take care of it. That significantly affects the phase behavior and off axis, which both, in my opinion are the most important in the sonics of any microphone.
If you look at the MG32/33 bodies you can see there are no those back chambers in either one. That's the main reason for their excellent and very natural off axis and phase integrity. I really loved the capsule we used in our MG20 (which being transformer coupled is a bit more expensive), so we also used it in the MG32/33. The sonics, however, are completely different. If the MG20 had very authoritative low end, very smooth and almost ribbon like top end... in fact, it sounds almost like a tube mic... the MG32/33 has very balanced bottom through the top, not harsh at all, but still extended.
When I was designing it besides getting a perfect acoustical shape I also wanted to make it as small as possibly could, so it could be used in very tight spaces like percussions, or keep it the least obtrusive for live concerts, or video recordings, so we started using SMD (those are our first mics with SMD parts). In important signal path we however, still use very high quality through hole Wima capacitors and for the resistors we use SMD, but very high quality (and expensive) Vishay Dale.
Also, we wanted to make a side addressed SDC as there are very few (esp. quality ones) on the market, esp. of this small size. The MG33 (side addressed version) is more expensive than MG32. The reason, it is a bit harder to manufacture and has two more machining operations. Sonically, both are very close, though.
So here is my philosophy behind this design. Feel free to ask any questions!
The sound files are coming very soon.
Best, M
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Post by notneeson on Nov 14, 2023 22:13:54 GMT -6
I got to spend some time with the MG20 and it’s a great mic. Very interested in these newer offerings!
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Post by markfouxman on Nov 15, 2023 1:41:24 GMT -6
Here is a shootout of SAMAR MG33 and Schoeps CMC6. Both mics have been phase-adjusted, level-adjusted, and time-aligned.
No Eq, Compression, or other processing have been added:
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Post by theboris on Nov 15, 2023 10:46:30 GMT -6
If you look at the MG32/33 bodies you can see there are no those back chambers in either one. That's the main reason for their excellent and very natural off axis and phase integrity. I really loved the capsule we used in our MG20 (which being transformer coupled is a bit more expensive), so we also used it in the MG32/33. The sonics, however, are completely different. If the MG20 had very authoritative low end, very smooth and almost ribbon like top end... in fact, it sounds almost like a tube mic... the MG32/33 has very balanced bottom through the top, not harsh at all, but still extended.
I would have purchased 4 of the MG20s if they were side-address. Will likely still buy a pair of the new 33, but a humble vote / plea to consider incorporating your great transformers into the MG33 or making a side address version of the 20! The description you give of the MG20 is exactly what I want for close-micing MANY sources, but damn near impossible to do without a side-address form-factor. |
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Post by bgrotto on Nov 15, 2023 10:56:44 GMT -6
Very interesting stuff. Love hearing design philosophy direct from the source like this. These just landed on my “to try/buy” list.
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Post by bgrotto on Nov 15, 2023 10:58:13 GMT -6
Edit: just checked the Samar site for more info (namely: price). How the heck are these things so affordable?!
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Post by bgrotto on Nov 15, 2023 11:05:20 GMT -6
Thank you for your interest in our microphones!
We just put the MG32 and MG33 on our website, but haven't even announced yet, so they are totally new. Like in the MG20 (and actually, all our microphones) the main emphasis is on the perfect acoustical environment surrounding the capsule to get rid of standing waves, resonances, reflection, and any obstacles to the sound not only in front of the capsule, but also behind--something most of the time gets neglected. That is, take a cardioid microphone (doesn't matter--LDC, or SDC) and place your hand right behind the capsule--you immediately hear that sound completely changes. If you look at the most of the SDC's you can see a chamber behind the capsule full of reflections, resonances, etc. A cone (sometimes absorbing foam) do help, but still the principle is--introducing a problem and then trying to take care of it. That significantly affects the phase behavior and off axis, which both, in my opinion are the most important in the sonics of any microphone.
If you look at the MG32/33 bodies you can see there are no those back chambers in either one. That's the main reason for their excellent and very natural off axis and phase integrity. I really loved the capsule we used in our MG20 (which being transformer coupled is a bit more expensive), so we also used it in the MG32/33. The sonics, however, are completely different. If the MG20 had very authoritative low end, very smooth and almost ribbon like top end... in fact, it sounds almost like a tube mic... the MG32/33 has very balanced bottom through the top, not harsh at all, but still extended.
When I was designing it besides getting a perfect acoustical shape I also wanted to make it as small as possibly could, so it could be used in very tight spaces like percussions, or keep it the least obtrusive for live concerts, or video recordings, so we started using SMD (those are our first mics with SMD parts). In important signal path we however, still use very high quality through hole Wima capacitors and for the resistors we use SMD, but very high quality (and expensive) Vishay Dale.
Also, we wanted to make a side addressed SDC as there are very few (esp. quality ones) on the market, esp. of this small size. The MG33 (side addressed version) is more expensive than MG32. The reason, it is a bit harder to manufacture and has two more machining operations. Sonically, both are very close, though.
So here is my philosophy behind this design. Feel free to ask any questions!
The sound files are coming very soon.
Best, M
I know this is kind a dodgy thing to have to answer, but, in terms of durability, how do these things fare? Could they withstand an errant drumstick?😬 womdering about the new 32 and 33, as well as the 20. I love condensers on drums but find most of the good sounding options too fragile, and most of the durable options kinda poopy-sounding. Given samars reputation (and my existing LOVE of your ribbons, esp the stereo one), I reckon I might get along very nicely with the sonics on these. |
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Post by markfouxman on Nov 15, 2023 11:21:12 GMT -6
If you look at the MG32/33 bodies you can see there are no those back chambers in either one. That's the main reason for their excellent and very natural off axis and phase integrity. I really loved the capsule we used in our MG20 (which being transformer coupled is a bit more expensive), so we also used it in the MG32/33. The sonics, however, are completely different. If the MG20 had very authoritative low end, very smooth and almost ribbon like top end... in fact, it sounds almost like a tube mic... the MG32/33 has very balanced bottom through the top, not harsh at all, but still extended.
I would have purchased 4 of the MG20s if they were side-address. Will likely still buy a pair of the new 33, but a humble vote / plea to consider incorporating your great transformers into the MG33 or making a side address version of the 20! The description you give of the MG20 is exactly what I want for close-micing MANY sources, but damn near impossible to do without a side-address form-factor. Yep, I was thinking about that for quite a while. There might be a problem with rigidity with such a long stem when milling the side address capsule holder, so it will need to be a bit shorter. But it is totally possible and IT IS on my mind.
Best, M |
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Post by markfouxman on Nov 15, 2023 11:32:06 GMT -6
Thank you for your interest in our microphones!
We just put the MG32 and MG33 on our website, but haven't even announced yet, so they are totally new. Like in the MG20 (and actually, all our microphones) the main emphasis is on the perfect acoustical environment surrounding the capsule to get rid of standing waves, resonances, reflection, and any obstacles to the sound not only in front of the capsule, but also behind--something most of the time gets neglected. That is, take a cardioid microphone (doesn't matter--LDC, or SDC) and place your hand right behind the capsule--you immediately hear that sound completely changes. If you look at the most of the SDC's you can see a chamber behind the capsule full of reflections, resonances, etc. A cone (sometimes absorbing foam) do help, but still the principle is--introducing a problem and then trying to take care of it. That significantly affects the phase behavior and off axis, which both, in my opinion are the most important in the sonics of any microphone.
If you look at the MG32/33 bodies you can see there are no those back chambers in either one. That's the main reason for their excellent and very natural off axis and phase integrity. I really loved the capsule we used in our MG20 (which being transformer coupled is a bit more expensive), so we also used it in the MG32/33. The sonics, however, are completely different. If the MG20 had very authoritative low end, very smooth and almost ribbon like top end... in fact, it sounds almost like a tube mic... the MG32/33 has very balanced bottom through the top, not harsh at all, but still extended.
When I was designing it besides getting a perfect acoustical shape I also wanted to make it as small as possibly could, so it could be used in very tight spaces like percussions, or keep it the least obtrusive for live concerts, or video recordings, so we started using SMD (those are our first mics with SMD parts). In important signal path we however, still use very high quality through hole Wima capacitors and for the resistors we use SMD, but very high quality (and expensive) Vishay Dale.
Also, we wanted to make a side addressed SDC as there are very few (esp. quality ones) on the market, esp. of this small size. The MG33 (side addressed version) is more expensive than MG32. The reason, it is a bit harder to manufacture and has two more machining operations. Sonically, both are very close, though.
So here is my philosophy behind this design. Feel free to ask any questions!
The sound files are coming very soon.
Best, M
I know this is kind a dodgy thing to have to answer, but, in terms of durability, how do these things fare? Could they withstand an errant drumstick?😬 womdering about the new 32 and 33, as well as the 20. I love condensers on drums but find most of the good sounding options too fragile, and most of the durable options kinda poopy-sounding. Given samars reputation (and my existing LOVE of your ribbons, esp the stereo one), I reckon I might get along very nicely with the sonics on these.
It is actually, an excellent question and I had that in mind when was designing the mic. The smaller the body, the more rigidity it has (one of the reasons I wanted to make the mic that small). Also, if you look at the capsule holder you can see the shape is curved, which adds more material and rigidity without sucrificing things acoustically. So yes, it was designed to take the hits, but then... if a drummer makes it a goal--I am sure s/he might be able to succeed)))
Best, M
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Post by markfouxman on Nov 15, 2023 11:39:12 GMT -6
Edit: just checked the Samar site for more info (namely: price). How the heck are these things so affordable?! We make everything in house... I actually write all the machining programs and do their proofreading myself, so we have total control (including quality) over a lot of processes and also do not waste extra money for outsourced (often inflated) labor. We still did not raise prices for ANY of our products, while most of the companies had to do it (some a few times). So yes, we are very conscious of keeping the prices down, so more folks can afford our mics.
Best, M
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Post by bgrotto on Nov 15, 2023 11:41:53 GMT -6
Edit: just checked the Samar site for more info (namely: price). How the heck are these things so affordable?! We make everything in house... I actually write all the machining programs and do their proofreading myself, so we have total control (including quality) over a lot of processes and also do not waste extra money for outsourced (often inflated) labor. We still did not raise prices for ANY of our products, while most of the companies had to do it (some a few times). So yes, we are very conscious of keeping the prices down, so more folks can afford our mics.
Best, M
Thank you for the replies. I also see you have a money back guarantee. Expect an order from me soon, sir 👍🏽 |
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Post by Omicron9 on Nov 15, 2023 12:59:03 GMT -6
In the shootout, I thought B sounded just a tiny bit darker than A. But I only took one pass and didn't go back and do a more detailed listening comparison due to time restraints. Both sounded quite good.
-09
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Post by recordingengineer on Nov 15, 2023 14:11:47 GMT -6
In the shootout, I thought B sounded just a tiny bit darker than A. But I only took one pass and didn't go back and do a more detailed listening comparison due to time restraints. Both sounded quite good. -09 On my phone, I agree. Both quite good… Just a matter of how open and bright I might want one part vs another part. Here are my preferences from my phone listen - Fingerstyle: B Blues: B in first-half, A in second-half Open Chords: A Open Drop D: B |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,946 
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Post by ericn on Nov 15, 2023 18:54:02 GMT -6
Here is a shootout of SAMAR MG33 and Schoeps CMC6. Both mics have been phase-adjusted, level-adjusted, and time-aligned. No Eq, Compression, or other processing have been added: I did a quick listen in the car as I was waiting for the kid at the DMV, call me impressed, and at these prices, plus a side address. Honestly Mark I don’t need more SDC’s but at these prices and the fact that there is a side address version. Well at some point I’m buying. For live and location side address just works so well. |
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Post by thermos on Nov 16, 2023 8:52:51 GMT -6
I’m guessing b is the Samar. Seems to have a warm top the way the mg20 does from the samples. Both sound really great. I’d buy a pair of these or the mg20 without hesitation if I needed a pair.
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Post by Ward on Nov 17, 2023 10:59:52 GMT -6
Microphone A seems to carry more weight, to my ears.
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Post by sirthought on Nov 17, 2023 16:34:41 GMT -6
How many days do I have to keep checking this thread or the YT video to find out which mic is which? Maybe I can set a calendar reminder?
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Post by markfouxman on Nov 18, 2023 12:20:16 GMT -6
How many days do I have to keep checking this thread or the YT video to find out which mic is which? Maybe I can set a calendar reminder? That's a good point! Let's say we run it for a week, so everyone interested has a chance to listen and write the impressions. We started it November 15th, so how about November 22nd?
So keep it coming, folks!
Best, M
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Post by markfouxman on Nov 22, 2023 11:52:45 GMT -6
Here are the tracks: A-Samar MG33 B-Schoeps CNC6 in cardioid In the spirit of shootout (BTW, the main reason is not to show 'what's better, what's worse', but rather what the microphones do, what are the strong points, and what are the 'flavors'), here is a Samar MG33 against a mighty industry standard $1995.00 DPA 4011, which IMO perhaps is one of the most balanced SDC mics on the market. Big thanks to great folks at the Funk Studios in Salt Lake City, UT, who happen to have that great mic and Hayden Cluff on guitar: samaraudiodesign.com/MG33_DPA_FingerstrumA.wavsamaraudiodesign.com/MG33_DPA_FingerstrumB.wavsamaraudiodesign.com/MG33_DPA_Open_ChordsA.wavsamaraudiodesign.com/MG33_DPA_Open_ChordsB.wavsamaraudiodesign.com/MG33_DPA_Open_Drop_D_TuningA.wavsamaraudiodesign.com/MG33_DPA_Open_Drop_D_TuningB.wavsamaraudiodesign.com/MG33_DPA_Open_G_ThemeA.wavsamaraudiodesign.com/MG33_DPA_Open_G_ThemeB.wavBest, M
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wiggy
New Member
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Post by wiggy on Nov 22, 2023 13:50:54 GMT -6
Well, I just purchased some Schoeps, and this shootout has me questioning that choice, lol. Sounds great Mark!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,946
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Post by ericn on Nov 22, 2023 20:57:34 GMT -6
Well, I just purchased some Schoeps, and this shootout has me questioning that choice, lol. Sounds great Mark! Welcome to our corner of the net, Schoeps is always a good investment, but T these prices for what they deliver we are all going to end up with at least a pair😁 |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 22, 2023 21:44:39 GMT -6
Got an M32 coming. Looking forward to recording some stuff with it!
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Post by Ward on Nov 23, 2023 7:03:36 GMT -6
Well, I just purchased some Schoeps, and this shootout has me questioning that choice, lol. Sounds great Mark! Wouldn't be hard to offload them and then get those Samar offerings. A lot of people like the Schoeps sound: HPF at 200hz, LPF at 5khz with random active lobes that magically appear at the null points. (a little sardonic wit IfYKYK) |
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Post by Ward on Nov 23, 2023 7:04:24 GMT -6
Got an M32 coming. Looking forward to recording some stuff with it! I'll be joining the customer list for these as well. |
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